MB body on CJ5 frame suggestions

[sail78385]

This is the first jeep Ive started building from the gorund up. I have a MB body that Id like to put on my CJ5 Matkins frame. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to mate the 2 together? Im pretty confident that mounts will have to be moved -but if someone has already been there done that Id appreciate any tips -such as what hardware you used, maybe some photos.
Thanks in advance!

[Mieser]

On the MB you have the sump for the fuel tank on the drivers side. The body mounts on that side of the frame are INSIDE the rail. I don't think you could do it with a splayed CJ5 frame unless you cut out the sump or modify it.

I think your just going to have to set that tub on the frame and see....

[sail78385]

thanks Meiser. I plan on removing the sump -No need for it now. I plan on putting a fuel tank in the back of the frame.

[Mieser]

In a week or two I might have a fairly accurate measurement of the MB body mounts. I am building mounts on my new frame next.

Do you already have the matkins frame? Why not build your own?

[sail78385]

Yes I already have a Matkins frame. Any chance you wanna make some extra mounts?

[Mieser]

Is your matkins frame a straight rail version?

What is the outside measurement of the frame rails? It should be about 29.25 I think. Doesn't the Matkins frame have mounts you can move/cut/modify?

[sail78385]

Heres what I got... Guy told me he ordered this from quadratec a few years ago -also had it dipped in zinc to prevent rust. Told me that its a rockcrawler series so its thicker metal than the ordinary frames. All I know is that its clean, was a good deal, and makes life a little easier from me. Getting ready to order the outboard spring mounts and springs. Ill have a rolling project then. I found a jk 2wd front axle last night for free -that will let me get if off the ground until I find the front axle I need.



Rear frame at crossmember measurement


Front measurement


Complete frame

[CRO]

If the frame was hot dip galvanized (zinc coated) I would be real careful welding on it.. read about metal fume fever, Modifying the body will likely be easier anyway, most of the time the hat channels (underfloor bracing) are rusty and/or full of rotting wood .

[MrWillys]

The early CJ-5 frame vs the MB are really close (CJ-5 changed in 76). Do what Mieser said and just set it on top and see what mounts you'll have to move.
As for welding the galvinized coating. No big deal, just don't breath the crap in. I weld metal studs all the time without getting sick. Drink milk if you feel sick to your stomach.

[wilez5150]

i have a 42 mb in the shop now #4284 of 90k made in 42, looking a the bottom of the tub and the frame standing next to it i think i would sell the 5 frame and build one like mieser's. frankly i was not impressed with the one i had
that is a late 70's frame and different from the early 5 an flattie frames. just my .02

[sail78385]

I have a very limited supply of tools to work with. My carport isn't even level. I wish I had the capability to build a custom frame like the ones I've seen on here. I was thinkn that using a stock-ish frame would help me
In the long run: the motor mounts are already there if I choose an AMC motor, I can use prebent cj5 brake and fuel lines for the frame, ill also be able to find a fuel tank to tuck up in the rails. -am I not thinking clearly? I'm sure I'll be able to modify the tub to fit the frame. I intend on cutting the sump out of it and replacing the hat channel. I assume I can modify the location of the hat channel to help mount this tub -right? I'm only setup for a 110 welder anything more than that I'll have to load it up and have a professional do.

Wilez5150 was the frame you were using a matins like I have or a factory frame?

[Mieser]

The best thing you can do right now is just set your mb body on the frame ( after you cut out one side of the sump ). That will tell you more than anything. What is the mounting distance for the rear most body mounts on the rear bumper? If its close to 48" you might be able to at least get the rear most MB mount to basically line up enough to get you started.

[sail78385]

I'll do that as soon as I get it. It's being transported from Colorado right now. Thanks Meiser and you guys for the suggestions!!!

[wilez5150]

it was a mankins phase 3 rock crawler. wasn't bad i just didn't like it. you can build a table out of plywood an 2x4's that will work to build a frame on. i built lots of jeeps in the dirt in front of a 10x12 shed, just pay attention to what your doing. sell the frame and buy a welder. i tradered my mankins cj7 frame for a running cj6
steel lines are dirt simple to make with a QUALITY flaring tool cheap. most steel yards will do custom bend and shear, build your own tank. its not rocket science

[XJGPN2]

sail78385,
Just out of curiosity, was your frame the same as this that was listed on 10/02/11:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/330620902990

and this that was listed 10/01/11:
http://cjsfs.com/cj5-jeep-parts/jeep...r-sale-800-00/

[sail78385]

Yea same one.

[XJGPN2]

Did you sell it?

[sail78385]

Nope, been toying with the idea. Ive got a ton of parts coming the next few days Ill make my decision then if I want it or not. Are you interested?

[sail78385]

Currently my goal is to have a rolling chassis. So heres where Im at right now
Tires 37x12.5 R 17
Wheels JK Hutchinson Mopar Beadlock
Axles JK Dana 44 Rear 4:10 gears, 2wd JK front axle, JK Dana 44 front housing (empty)
1944 Jeep Willys body -hopefully here tonight before I leave for CA otherwise tomorrow when Im gone.
Matkins CJ5 Rockcrawler frame -I have no idea if its even usable for this project right now 1979-whatever year
Jeep TJ Willys Edition camo seats
WW2 9 slot grill
9.5 Warn TI winch



Things I need in no particular order:
Hood, fenders, windshield
Suspension 2.5 YJ lift springs
Outboard alxe kit

My current concern in addition to making the frame work is the front axle. I saw a spring over configuration in a YJ using JK axles but I dont know if a outboard spring kit widens the axle to YJ specs, wider or narrower? Its all about how much room Im going to have on the short axle side. Im sure some of you are wondering why I chose JK axles, wheels and tires ect. I have ADD and when something pops in my head I just try to go for it. Im not sure if all of my ideas will work or make sense. Hopefully Im on the right track. My last jeep was a 2004 LJ and I did the LCG highline kit and loved it, always rode very well. I had been toying with the idea with an older jeep and when I saw Miesers post about doing so my jaw dropped. Unfortunatley I sold the flatfender I had several weeks before. So now im buying al-la-carte hunting deals and the best parts. Thanks for the help so far guys...

[Mieser]

It looks like you have a pile of parts and the craving!

You can make anything work, don't get too concerned about if you have the 'right' parts. So far I think you have plenty of stuff to make it work.

Personally. I would probably try and use the JK front axle in link form. You could run some longer links from the stock JK control arm mounting point back onto the frame. You could probably get lucky and have things work out pretty well. Last years Ultimate Adventure jeep used a JK front track bar on a CJ width frame and it worked out pretty dang well. I would look long and hard at that build for sure.

In the rear, I would probably go with something simple like SUA perhaps. Its the easy way out of sure. You might be able to use a set of wagoneer springs with the long end forward to push the rear axle back just enough on that CJ5 frame. Your looking for about 3" of 'stretch' in the rear if you don't want to comp cut the rear to fit your 37s.

Did you ever figure out what the rear frame body mount distance was on your CJ5 frame. I would be guessing it would be pretty easy to drill a set of holes in the rear crossmember at 48" on center and bolt up the MB body ( once you remove the fuel tank sump ).

The high backspacing beadlocks you have will work REALLY nice with the JK axles. I think the track width would only be in the 60-62" range. Don't run spacers, I think it will be too wide.

The drivers drop front axle will make things a little interesting but no big deal.

Any ideas on what you want for an engine/trans/t-case?

Your going to need to play with the body a fair amount to get it to work right with the LCG theme. The rear wheel tubs need to be redone. The front fender raise really should be fairly easy.

If you don't have them now....invest in some tools. They don't have to be super fancy and expensive, but with a project like this you probably want to make that investment. Its amazing what you can do with a few decent tools and some thinking. I'm lucky to have big expensive tools like knee mills, big lathes, etc at work....but most recently with the Rango project I have been doing most everything at home. The only exotic thing I have at home really is a 12x36 lathe. Other than that its a $225 4x6 bandsaw, $170 engine hoist, a $130 mini drill press, and a 110 welder with a gas kit. Even cheap simple things like a hand drill and a 4" grinder get used ALL the time. I would say for the cost difference in building my own frame vs buying a new frame I STILL don't have that much money in tools ( lathe exculded, but its a loaner! )

Good luck with your project. PM me if you have any questions. I will try and post lots of details.

[sail78385]

43.5 is the rear crossmember measurement from hole center to center

[Mieser]

The outer mounts on the rear of an MB tub are 48" wide. They need to be approx 1 1/8" from the back edge of the crossmember to the have body 'flush' with the rear of the frame.

Your frame looks like it was designed to have a rear 'bumper' so the holes would need to be 3 1/8 from the rear face of your 2" thick bumper tube. It looks like there is enough room to drill those holes. The holes need to be 3/8" in dia minimum for 3/8-16 bolts with 9/16" heads.

Get those mounts in place and remove the fuel tank sump and you should be able to set the body on the frame. You will probably have to rig up a stud in the rear body mount location using some all thread or a long bolt to first align the body. The height of the rear crossmember will likely not be the same as the MB tub. The tub will sit on the belly area of the frame on its own. You will likely have to have a small spacer on the rear body mounts to get everything to work right....