Frame building questions

[Mieser]

I built my rails fully welded then tacked in the front bumper and rear crossmember to stabilized everything. That worked really well. I added a crossmember under the grill, the transmission mount, 'machine gun crossmember' , rear floor crossmember, and rear bumper as I got the body installed.

I would recommend finding a large surface to build the frame on. I ended up picking up a used 4x8 welding table. It was REALLY nice to build the frame, set the body, and mount everything on a level surface.

[Rooney77]

Unfortunately, I'm stuck using the garage floor. It's pretty flat consistently, not sure how since it was poured in the 40's but it is. At least according to my longest level.

[Al Kaholick]

1/8" with 110? No problem. If you had a 220 volt welder, you would probably have it turned down to what the 110 puts out anyway. The only advantage I can think of might be duty cycle, but I bet you have enough time between welds not to have to worry about that anyway by the time you get setup and whatnot.

I learned to weld in a drag racing chassis shop. Our welder was a 110 volt unit and we welded mostly 1 5/8" .120 wall (.120" ~ 1/8"). They all held together...

[Rooney77]

One last question before I get to it, what thickness steel do y'all use for the fish plates? I figure 1/8" again since that's the wall thickness of the tubing but I don't know if I should step up to 1/4" for that.

[Mieser]

I used 1/8 plate for my frame side plates. They acted as the gussets between the top and bottom rail ( mine is a stacked frame ) and also formed the spring hangers front and rear. I tried to lighten them up a little bit with some speed holes that where then welded to the frame rails. Compared to the stock frame I think it is incredibly ridged. Where the spring hanger holes where I added a small 3/16" thick weld washer to help that hole from becoming oval over time.

I have an accurate blueprint for my frame in pdf format and the dxf/dwg file for the side plates I had laser cut if you want them.

Good luck on your project.

[1946CJ2]

I would do the rails first, put good tacks to hold them. You can then make sure they are straight (stack them on top of each other and then spin one of them 180* and make sure they still line up). Then weld the end sections (2" width). I then split the side welds into three sections and rotated between sides and rails (letting each weld cool before I did the next one). On my first frame, I welded it to hot with my 110 and even with good tacks, it pulled the frame rail tip in a little. The second frame came out perfectly straight. I also stacked three welds to completely fill the area between the top and bottom rails and then ground them smooth, with a soft pad grinder. I then tacked both rails together and cut the ends both at the same time in my band saw. This will make sure they are the exact same length. Then I tacked the bumpers on and used ratchet straps to square it. My frame came out less than 1/16th out of square. Make sure once you start to weld your gussets on, that you do not let it get to hot.

first frame build http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...uestion&page=2

second frame build http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...6#post12709246

Originally Posted by 1946CJ2

Well I got started on the new frame. Some guys are afraid of trying to build their own frame (I think) because they do not have a jig. Well this is how I built mine and it came out perfectly straight.

I started buy clamping the first two part to a third piece of steel tubing and tack welding it.



Next I clamped the second frame rail to the first and tacked it.



Then for the rear section of the frame, I clamped it to the mid section.



Close up picture of how I clamped the frame.



The next two pic is of checking the frame to be straight before final welding.



You need to spin the rails on top of each other and make sure it is straight in both directions.


Once it was all welded up I cut .25 steel plate for the gussets. I did both sides and all 4 joints.





While I was building the frame I had a nice buck walk across my yard.

[1946CJ2]

If this is to many pictures let me know and I will delete them. some are double posts from my quote from above.

[1946CJ2]

[Rooney77]

Originally Posted by Mieser

I used 1/8 plate for my frame side plates. They acted as the gussets between the top and bottom rail ( mine is a stacked frame ) and also formed the spring hangers front and rear. I tried to lighten them up a little bit with some speed holes that where then welded to the frame rails. Compared to the stock frame I think it is incredibly ridged. Where the spring hanger holes where I added a small 3/16" thick weld washer to help that hole from becoming oval over time.

I have an accurate blueprint for my frame in pdf format and the dxf/dwg file for the side plates I had laser cut if you want them.

Good luck on your project.

Your blue print is taped to the side of my tub at the moment.

I'm not going with leaf springs so I modded your design a little bit but basically it's the same.

[Rooney77]

Thanks for all those pics. That always helps. Well I'm off to the garage and won't be back till I have a frame.....I hope. Thanks for all the info guys.

[csutton7]

have fun---but one thing that bit me was not leaving enough room from center line of the front axle to back of bumper---you'll need at least 19"(if memory serves me right-it's somewhere in my build thread) and that's tight, if you use a saginaw box--I never got the bronco or scout box which probably would've worked, but I figured since I'd be outlaying almost enuff for full hydro to do that box with hydro assist, I decided full hydro would be what I used and never bought one to see if I could make it work, seems like it would though ....chris

[Rooney77]

Well after realizing my chop saw is an hour away at my folk's place I get it back and start measuring and realize the chop saw is incapable of the angle I need to cut. This leaves me with a few options, getting a band saw (wife would kill me), redesign with 45 degree cuts or using my angle grinder (less than accurate). I'm so frustrated right now. Ugh. If I redesign with 45's that would leave me with a lot less overlap between the stacked pieces, I don't like that idea. So it looks like I'm left using my angle grinder, I hate this situation.

[Rooney77]

Originally Posted by csutton7

have fun---but one thing that bit me was not leaving enough room from center line of the front axle to back of bumper---you'll need at least 19"(if memory serves me right-it's somewhere in my build thread) and that's tight, if you use a saginaw box--I never got the bronco or scout box which probably would've worked, but I figured since I'd be outlaying almost enuff for full hydro to do that box with hydro assist, I decided full hydro would be what I used and never bought one to see if I could make it work, seems like it would though ....chris

I plan on full hydro and I'll be linking it front and rear. Really I only need room up front for a winch if I decide to run one. I've never had one or really needed one in the past. I've always just had the guy in front of me toss me rope.

[Dirt-Fab]

Originally Posted by 1946CJ2

I have welded the engine mount in currently. this way was cheap and easy.

I hate to hi-jack this thread, but just an FYI: I used that motor mount system when I 1st put a TBI 350 in my YJ. I broke several of those Corvette mounts. Ended up changing it later.

[Mieser]

To make those cuts nice with the angle grinder...

Lay out the angle you want with heavy masking tape and use some white primer in a rattle can to mark the line. Take the tape off.

Cut a little big with a cut off wheel.

Then use a flap disc to work down to the paint line.

Take your time and this will let you make a VERY straight line on a large cut like that.

Take your time laying out the tape and primer. It's the most important part.

[Peow130]

Originally Posted by Mieser

To make those cuts nice with the angle grinder...

Lay out the angle you want with heavy masking tape and use some white primer in a rattle can to mark the line. Take the tape off.

Cut a little big with a cut off wheel.

Then use a flap disc to work down to the paint line.

Take your time and this will let you make a VERY straight line on a large cut like that.

Take your time laying out the tape and primer. It's the most important part.

I'll add to this, let the grinder wheel do the work, don't try and force the wheel through the steel. Otherwise you'll get odd-cuts and funky angles, and the potentiality to have one of those disks explode.


And my question: What's the problem with 45's? Are you worried about the overlap between top and bottom rails?

[last person]

Do you have a mitre that will accept a metal cutting hacksaw ? It would take a while, but would get you some very consistent cuts.

[Rooney77]

I ended up going with 45 degree cuts and kept the 10" of overlap like meiser has. This changed the look of the frame and some of the dimensions but all the important ones are the same. I'll post a pic this evening when it's done. Yesterday seemed more about overcoming obstacles than fabbing. Project was fighting me every step.

[dezrik]

Originally Posted by Mieser

I used 1/8 plate for my frame side plates. They acted as the gussets between the top and bottom rail ( mine is a stacked frame ) and also formed the spring hangers front and rear. I tried to lighten them up a little bit with some speed holes that where then welded to the frame rails. Compared to the stock frame I think it is incredibly ridged. Where the spring hanger holes where I added a small 3/16" thick weld washer to help that hole from becoming oval over time.

I have an accurate blueprint for my frame in pdf format and the dxf/dwg file for the side plates I had laser cut if you want them.

Good luck on your project.

Could you email me the pdf and dxf or dwg of the frame blueprint. dezrik (at) yahoo.com

[1946CJ2]

On my second frame, once I had the measurements, I asked the steel shop, how much it was to make the 45* cuts? (from where I buy my steel). It it was only a couple dollars a cut at the time of purchase and it fits in the back of you truck easier.

[dezrik]

Originally Posted by 1946CJ2

On my second frame, once I had the measurements, I asked the steel shop, how much it was to make the 45* cuts? (from where I buy my steel). It it was only a couple dollars a cut at the time of purchase and it fits in the back of you truck easier.

This is what I was planning on doing, After looking at my chop saw it won't do a cut this big .

[Rooney77]

Well I only managed to get one frame rail tacked and the second rail layed out but not tacked. I ended up spending all day yesterday working on a buddy's jeep for him. I'll try to get it done during the week.