53 willys pick-up with mog 404s (pics)

[mark.bales]

Specs
94, v-6 vortec
Atlas 4.3
700r4 trans with reverse manual valve body
stock width 404 axles
dual triangulated 4 link front and rear
16" 2.0 fox airs shocks
full hydro steering
42" TSL
H1 bead locks
2 in 2 out cutter brake

[larryboy]

whats the wheelbase gonna be?

[mark.bales]

I was thinking about 117" but now I think I will go 105"-110" 117" seems a little long

[FULLSIZE]

Originally posted by mark.bales
I was thinking about 117" but now I think I will go 105"-110" 117" seems a little long

what size tires? how tight a trails do you plan on? if your gonna run 44's or 42's and not run the tightest trails in the world, 117 wont be too long.

[mark.bales]

40" MTRS is the tire I'm going to run, I think with the right backspacing I can get the new rig narrower then the xj I had before with fullwitdh ( as far as over all width outside tire-to outside tire ) but I dont want tight trails to slow me down

[FULLSIZE]

i think 110 would be a good wheelbase. thats what i'm shootin for with 40" mtr's and full width 60/70. never had any problems clearing/turning around obsticles with the old jeep at 108.

[66CJdean]

Originally posted by mark.bales
40" MTRS is the tire I'm going to run, I think with the right backspacing I can get the new rig narrower then the xj I had before with fullwitdh ( as far as over all width outside tire-to outside tire ) but I dont want tight trails to slow me down

It looks as though you could run stock hummer wheels with those axles. Since there is no hub sticking out to get hit. I'll look again at the steering but I bet that is not a problem either so you might want to think about some stock 7" offset hummer wheels.

[mountainlander]

I have a 51 Willys wagon I'm going to be building.

Are you planning on using that frame?

I took one look at mine, and while it's in good condition it's WAY thin and seems kind of flimsy. I think I am going to build my own frame and mod up from there.

I considered 404s too, but money has got me going the traditional 60/70/14 bolt direction...

[TheTonka]

Finding another frame is a pretty good idea unless you know for sure what that frame has gone through. I replaced the frame under my '52 after three full through cracks. When I pulled it out I found another five cracks in various stages. My dad has had to weld up a few cracks in his wagon frame, and he doesn't wheel it much at all. My Uncle is on his third wagon frame(I think).

Remeber that is a 50 year old truck. They were never meant to flex as much as we put them through, and those truck frames flex ALOT when worked.

If you know where that frame has been and what it has done, you can do a lot to strengthen it, or if you don't plan on flexing the frame much don't worry about it. Since it looks like you are going all out, you might as well look at frame options. Mine has a Jeep J300 frame under it. It still flexes as much as the stock one and is twice the size with a much beefier boxed section and it handles better, rides better, and actualy seems to have more articulation. Plus I don't worry about cracking it.

Just what I have to say from experience. Looking forward to seeing that done. I was always tempted to go full out trail rig with the tonka, but never did. Keep us posted.

Mike B

[90wrangler]

than things gonna be nice and big, i think going with 110 wheel base will be perfect for that also.

[misterarj]

I'm glad to see these finally coming back around. I just went with my Brother in-law and got him a 1957 p/u this week. Looks great...

[mark.bales]

I'm not to worried about the frame cracking to much I'm sure the frame has been throuh hell and back but I think it will hold up fine I thouht about building a frame but there was nothing wrong with the one I have so I just boxed it in but since then I have decided to tube frame from the cab back I'm ordering my air shocks next week I posted some new pics also

[Chrisjeep7]

i dig it.....

[jpnjim]

Mark,

Any more details?
Engine/tranny?
How high do you plan on making it?
Normally, I'd want to keep the static height low, but those porthole axles will probably limit your uptravel, unless you run a decent amount of lift. (esp. with the lo 'kick ups' of the older frame).

Are you gonna raise the ft fenders (maybe hood mount slightly smaller fenders), or stick to an original looking cab.
Will you run a bed, or just a tube cage?
If you use a custom bed/cage, with high (or no) rear fenders, I'd think you'd want to move your ft's up, to keep similar amounts of ft/rear uptravel?

The best wheelbase has everything to do with what you'll be using the Jeep for.
For me, 117" would be a little long, but 40" (or future bigger) tires can do alot to tame that length (and save your breakover angle).
I'd try 110" to 114", but leave room (gas tank location, etc) to go anywhere from 106", to 120+" if possible.
That way if I found myself mostly on tight little trails, that are hard to thread through in a full width/full length truck, I could pull out a little wheelbase, for more manuverability.
Or if I wanted more climbing ability/stability I could move my location points, or build longer arms/driveshaft, till I fond the perfect wheelbase for me. I'd try to deal with the height the same way.
The best part of building something from the ground up is you build what you think you need, but allow enough room, so you can tweak it, if your wrong.
Even better if you can leave enough room to change your mind again in the future, without starting completely over.

Keep putting up those pics! (I REALLY want to build a flatty pickup),
Jimmy.

[mark.bales]

I want to make it as low as I can, it seems to me that all the comp rigs dont have much up travel I have looked at FTM'S 404 rig and it only has 4"-5" in front and a little more in back thats why I am going to tube frame the back, but I am a little worried about the front. The portal axle is going to be real close to the oil pan so I will have to rise the engine to clear.I want a very low center of gravity so I will cut what every to make the body fit around the engine\trans etc.

tube bed with room for my dogs and spare I want some sides on the bed to hold dogs in but I want to keep the lbs down,I thinking about cuting the top off for roll cage dont want exo too heavy

[larryboy]

Originally posted by mark.bales
but I am a little worried about the front. The portal axle is going to be real close to the oil pan so I will have to rise the engine to clear.I want a very low center of gravity so I will cut what every to make the body fit around the engine\trans etc.

why not cut the floor/firewall of the cab van style,so you can set the engine back a little. that should give you a little more room for the diff.

[mark.bales]

that should be easy too becuse the cab floor pan is rusted completly out

[larryboy]

Originally posted by mark.bales
that should be easy too becuse the cab floor pan is rusted completly out

aren't they all? thats why i suggested it .

[jpnjim]

Originally posted by larryboy


why not cut the floor/firewall of the cab van style,so you can set the engine back a little. that should give you a little more room for the diff.

Moving the engine might help, though the engine sits pretty far rearward stock on these old P/U's (like a CJ's does).
I'd be afraid to go too far back, since there's not much interior room to start with.
Would also lean me towards a forward distributor engine, like an AMC V8 (or a Ford,Buick,etc), or even {gag} a V6.
Extra setback would probably work nicely with a short T-18/NP435, etc, forward shifter position.

You could also push the ft axle forward a few, or even think about tube framing the ft half, and increase your frame kickup by a few inches.

[larryboy]

Originally posted by jpnjim


Moving the engine might help, though the engine sits pretty far rearward stock on these old P/U's (like a CJ's does).
I'd be afraid to go too far back, since there's not much interior room to start with.
Would also lean me towards a forward distributor engine, like an AMC V8 (or a Ford,Buick,etc), or even {gag} a V6.
Extra setback would probably work nicely with a short T-18/NP435, etc, forward shifter position.

You could also push the ft axle forward a few, or even think about tube framing the ft half, and increase your frame kickup by a few inches.

my 59 wagon has a 327 and the previous owner cut a notch for the dist,front dist v-8's are the way to go in em. looks like he's going with the 4.3 though. if he sets it back a little,like 4-6"s he will gain alot of room for the front axle IMO.

[mark.bales]

I cut the front grill all out so I can hide my winch behind it, that gave me alot of room to work with in the engine compartment so I can mount the 4.3 pretty much where ever I want. like I said the cab floor is rusted out so I will be building my own floor to fit around the drivetrain one other thing that I would like is to make sure that the drivetrain sits far up enough to have a flat bottom skid plate. I plan on doing full hydro steering so I can move the front axle where I need with out to many problems...thanks for all the intrest and questions

[mark.bales]

I cant decide if I should tube frame the front and rear or just the rear what do you guys think I dont really want to build a new frame but if I tube the front and rear I might as well build a whole frame let me know what you all think thanks

[jpnjim]

I've been building one of these in my head for the last few years (what the hell, it's free, and none of my projects ever really get finished anyway ), and I would want to start with a nice strong full size Waggy frame.

Just lately, with all the Truggy's out there I've been trying to picture one of these with a tube back half, coil overs, etc.
I still won't know if I like it till I see one.

The Waggy frame is a good place to start, because of it's strength, but also it's decent leafs (not an issue for you, looks like you're going coil over), good gas tank location, and lots of newer components that can be reused on the Flatty P/U.

I talked to a guy in Kenosha last summer who put a Flatty PU on a J10 frame. He slid the stock engine back 4", used a CJ radiator, built some body mounts, re-used the FSJ pedals/MC/etc, narrowed some D60/D70's, used an aftermarket bench for a mini pickup (fit perfect), and everything looked like it was built to fit together.
I'd want to start with the shorter Waggy frame, since it's 109" is closer to my ideal 110-114".

All tube frame? If you're planning tube ft & rear subframes anyway, no sence keeping the middle 36" of original frame.
As long as you have the means, do it, but is it gonna turn a 8-10 month job into a 2 year project?

[cj79]

man that thing is going to look sweet .. cant wait to see some finished pic of it ...keep up the good work

[Jeepmangled87]

wow thats crazy looking, wanna see it up on some wheels and tires.