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Old 07-01-2008, 10:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Agenda for 7/1 Friends of Johnson Valley meeting

This is the high level I would like to cover tonight. There is an awful lot of information that needs to be disseminated and alot of 'orginization' that needs to be accounted for.

My intent is to find a volunteer to capture the notes and report back here with the information on the following subjects:

Introduction

Recap
The ‘Players’ – Who’s involved
Partnership For Johnson Valley
OHV Leadership Group
29 Palms Base Tour
Windmill Meetings

Future Meetings
PFJV Strategy
Military Meeting

Future of FOJV
What is our goal?
What is our structure?
Who is our Leadership?
How do we operate?
When do we meet?
Where do we meet?

Next Steps
Long term strategy
Forming sub ‘action’ groups… getting the word out to:
Local Home Owners
Local Businesses
Other recreational interests
Rock Hounds
Rocketeers
Hikers
Film Commission
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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After sitting through nearly two hours of one of the most impressive displays of circle speak I've ever witnessed, I have a few observations.

We needed a bit of hypocrisy last night. Hypocrisy in the form of a polite request for the key players from other organizations to leave the room and let us tend to our business while we formalize our purpose and organizational structure without their phenomenally disruptive distractions.

The hypocrisy arises from our demands for transparency and free flow of information to aid in us (FOJV) finding our purpose and then needing a bit of privacy to deal with building our internal structure and definition of purpose in a non confrontational atmosphere free of outside agendas.

Yes, I realize some of the issues are very important and need to be addressed and dealt with, but until something more than passion binds us together formally, our effectiveness is almost nil.

I applaud Dave beyond measure. The frustration was highly evident when he attempted to move our agenda forward one step only to have it drug backwards with time consuming dissertations on how we should be doing things.

Trust me, we'll get to those things, but we need to be standing on our feet as an organization first and the longer you distract us, the longer that will take.

Towards the end, I had to question their motives, because at no point did I ever get the sense they were there to help us organize. If anything, it seemed as if they were there to push their own agendas without letting us get to ours. In that, they were very successful.

Our focus needs to be on getting FOJV off the ground and running. We have the passion, the motivation, and involvement from many great folks to accomplish this.

Now we need some "quiet" time to get it done and I for one, respectfully request that the detractors stay at home for the next meeting so we take care of our business.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I wish I was there....

Was there anything accomplished?

Some meeting notes?

Rick
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I wish I was there....

Was there anything accomplished?

Some meeting notes?

Rick
There were alot of things accomplished. We have a group outlining and determining our org structure. We agreed that I would server temporarily as the groups leader (3 months) until the org structure was ratified and in place. At such time we will have an election to determine long term leadership.

We cleared the air on D37 and Windmills and PFJV.

Jim Knox is currently working on raising awareness on the Windmill impact letters.

Scott Van Dell is handling the website

Scott is also spearheading the options for incorporation. 501 c3... etc. Cost/Benefits

We are meeting tonight with PFJV to determine our ongoing working relationship.



These are the cliff notes.

Don Gerber (EarlKann) took full notes and will be posting detailed meeting minutes. We were there for over 2 hours. There's alot to transcribe.

Dave
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks Dave, I hope my question wasn't interpreted as being negative. After rereading it myself it might have come off like that.


Having worked on land issues before, I know it can be a royal PTA to get a group formned and up and running. I can only hope that someway I can help, and get it done.

Thanks

Rick
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here is a link to organizational information I pulled together when setting up another 501(c)3

http://www.muirnet.net/NoteTaker/club-business.ntweb/?1
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks Dave, I hope my question wasn't interpreted as being negative.
Not at all... we are all in this together
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Dave,

I realize it is early along, but are there any plans to assist those that cannot get to the meetings to be able to contribute and be informed. I would love to attend a meeting, but the reality is it would be past 8pm by the time I can get to redlands assuming I can get out clean at 5pm.

Thanks,
Frank
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am working on the meeting minutes. Like most people I have a full time job that takes up too much of my time but I will get them up as soon as possible.

In the mean time we are asking that the attendees refrain from posting their own recaps until the official minutes are posted. We're not trying to hide anything, just hoping to avoid a free for all runaway thread.

Thanks,
Donald
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
Dave,

I realize it is early along, but are there any plans to assist those that cannot get to the meetings to be able to contribute and be informed. I would love to attend a meeting, but the reality is it would be past 8pm by the time I can get to redlands assuming I can get out clean at 5pm.

Thanks,
Frank
Contribute....Opportunities such as letter writing campaigns (Windmills and others to follow), reach out porgrams (working with the home owners, other groups..etc) will be made public.

Informed...As Don said, we're posting the minutes, and we'll continue to do that. Other than that call, pm, email, smoke signal me whenever you have a question and I'll be happy to get you up to speed.

Meeting Locations...We're still looking for a home. I think we'll be in the Inland Empire for at least one more meeting, but I envision the need to move around to get everyones input. More to follow on that.

Dave
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kf6zpl View Post
Here is a link to organizational information I pulled together when setting up another 501(c)3

http://www.muirnet.net/NoteTaker/club-business.ntweb/?1
Thanks for the info John!
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam View Post

Jim Knox is currently working on raising awareness on the Windmill impact letters.

Scott Van Dell is handling the website

Scott is also spearheading the options for incorporation. 501 c3... etc. Cost/Benefits

Dave
My goal is to have the website up this week. (at least the basics at a minimum) The website is www.FOJV.org . Chris Schutt (desertPOS) will be doing the artwork. Thanks Chris. Dave has agreed to provide a mission statement. I would like this to be well thought out by all members of FOJV once he has created it. This will be the focus of the website and become the mission statement for the 501(C)(x).

One portion of the website will include the absolute FACTS on our issues. I believe the main issues are as follows:

1) Marines taking part of Johnson Valley
2) West Fry Mountain wind project.

I would like help getting the latest maps for each issue. I know some of the information is still evolving but whatever the latest is will work. I want FOJV to plainly state its stance on each issue right on the website.

Another portion of the website will include up-comming events and meetings. This will obviously evolve over time.

Business structure:

I will start the the articles of incorporation once we decide our primary activities/ purpose. We will then know which non profit tax status to apply for. I will try to present my recommendations to the group and leave it up for discussion.

Jim Knox has also offered to write our by-laws. Thank you Jim.

Decisions about FOJV's address, bank account / treasurer, and other things will have to be made as well. I will let you guys know when we are at that point.

One last thing, the press release will need to be written soon. This should be sent to all the boards to get the word out about FOJV.


Thanks for the information John Stewart. It was very helpful.


Scott VanDell

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Old 07-02-2008, 07:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I posted this under another thread, but it belongs here.

I was at the meeting yesterday and gotta say I was disappointed. I will still attend future meetings simply for the cause, but it was sure a rough start. I have to hand it to you, it's not easy from my personal years of experience, to gather a committed group of volunteers to take action against something you are in charge of. I wish you best of luck if you resume lead of the "Save the Hammers committee".

There was alot of talk about unity, but more attention was devoted to making sure that Dist 37 wasnt going to turn their backs on us. That sure isn't a good start on asking for support. It seemed more of un-trusting backlashing against an ally, instead of trusting that our common desire to save as much of our sport's heritage will remain, will keep us united. He came to lend a voice but instead had to constantly defend himself against "what if" scenarios.

In the battle against the Marines, I understand that they will choose the path of less resistance, which tells me, we need to continue to organize written and verbal communication with our local governmental officials and those with impact, including getting members of ORBA to use their money to voice their concerns over the potential loss of their money.

In regards to the windmills, if they have as much right to be in JV as we do, and they will move in regardless, then we should atleast work with them to advise what will impact our sport and what will not. What will block trails or access, or roads leading to trailheads. We (STH) are not in this for the money, so we should not spend energy focusing on what Dist 37 lawyers have set up for trust funds. If their lawyers and attorneys say we cannot win this one, well until we can afford to pay for our own legal agents to decide otherwise, then we have to accept what our counterparts have paid to discover. If they are financially backed; then we can be the voice, and they can be the wallet to move this initiative through.

Lastly on my rant, I love to drink just as much as everyone if not more than most, but maybe alcohol and legal matters with paid professionals is not a good match. Keep the beer for the campsite and garage.

I had to leave after an hour of the meeting so hopefully everything simmered down at the end. Luckily I learned alot of information.

May I suggest a Sizzler's nearby. They usually have a banquet room, and for a restaurant, there wont be any pizza orders called over the loud speaker.
Theres one in San Bernardino n/o of I-10 on Waterman.
Theres one in Redlands on Orange s/o I-10.
Theres one in Banning on Ramsey Street (1 blk n/o I-10) off of 22nd st exit.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
We needed a bit of hypocrisy last night. Hypocrisy in the form of a polite request for the key players from other organizations to leave the room and let us tend to our business while we formalize our purpose and organizational structure without their phenomenally disruptive distractions.

Our focus needs to be on getting FOJV off the ground and running. We have the passion, the motivation, and involvement from many great folks to accomplish this.

Now we need some "quiet" time to get it done and I for one, respectfully request that the detractors stay at home for the next meeting so we take care of our business.
I agree wholeheartedly! After sitting and listening to one ally being questioned repeatedly about his motives I had finally had enough, got up and walked out.

Grilling someone as this person was being accosted verbally only serves to tick them off and cause them to become your enemy. I can tell you I would never throw you under the bus but does that mean I won't at a later date? Kinda depends on who ticked me off and what I'm being offered in return, dontcha think?

Dave, I and (I think I can speak for) my entire club, are behind this effort but I'll stay home and read the minutes rather than sit through that kind of behavior.

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Old 07-03-2008, 08:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree wholeheartedly! After sitting and listening to one ally being questioned repeatedly about his motives I had finally had enough, got up and walked out.

Grilling someone as this person was being accosted verbally only serves to tick them off and cause them to become your enemy. I can tell you I would never throw you under the bus but does that mean I won't at a later date? Kinda depends on who ticked me off and what I'm being offered in return, dontcha think?

Dave, I and (I think I can speak for) my entire club, are behind this effort but I'll stay home and read the minutes rather than sit through that kind of behavior.

Frenchie of IE4W
I'm really sorry you guys feel this way. Do I think we wasted a bunch of time, yes. Did it need to happen, yes. The air needed to be cleared. The key statement you missed, because it happened after you left, was that we were closing the books on the past. There will be no more 'he said, she said, you suck" discussions. But in order to get to that point, everyone needs to have the opportunity to get to that level of trust.

I would implore you to take the opportunity to say what's on your mind at the meeting. I had no idea if you were leaving because you disagreed with either side, me or because you didn't want to miss a TV show. We need EVERYONE's input.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Minutes are up. I started a new thread.

/forum/johnson-valley/696427-fojv-7-01-08-meeting-minutes.html
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm really sorry you guys feel this way. Do I think we wasted a bunch of time, yes. Did it need to happen, yes. The air needed to be cleared. The key statement you missed, because it happened after you left, was that we were closing the books on the past. There will be no more 'he said, she said, you suck" discussions. But in order to get to that point, everyone needs to have the opportunity to get to that level of trust.

I would implore you to take the opportunity to say what's on your mind at the meeting. I had no idea if you were leaving because you disagreed with either side, me or because you didn't want to miss a TV show. We need EVERYONE's input.
I understand but because I was not keeping up continually with the current events surrounding Johnson Valley as they were happening, I did not feel I had enough knowledge to speak up at that time. I kept my mouth shut content to listen, observe and garner knowledge so that I can make an informed and decisive comment later.

Perhaps, as the governing authority at these meetings, you could place a time limit on comments or topics so meetings or, as in this case, topics are not drawn out. Unlike Dustin, we do get up at 4:45am to go to work weekdays and God knows I need my beauty sleep.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I understand but because I was not keeping up continually with the current events surrounding Johnson Valley as they were happening, I did not feel I had enough knowledge to speak up at that time. I kept my mouth shut content to listen, observe and garner knowledge so that I can make an informed and decisive comment later.

Perhaps, as the governing authority at these meetings, you could place a time limit on comments or topics so meetings or, as in this case, topics are not drawn out. Unlike Dustin, we do get up at 4:45am to go to work weekdays and God knows I need my beauty sleep.
I completely understand. And completely agree. I think one of the things that will help is that now we are getting to the 'work' part of this deal, we can focus on making a difference, not arguing over spillt milk.

Look for the meeting minutes from the PFJV meeting that was last night. Dustin should have them up soon.

We are getting there. Fast.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm really sorry you guys feel this way. Do I think we wasted a bunch of time, yes. Did it need to happen, yes. The air needed to be cleared.
Yes, it did, and people in power need to know that there are issues of trust that are in question. With a few things that have happened over the last few weeks that are strewn throughout these land use threads it was time to say, "we've been watching, we're not impressed, our trust is in question, but if anyone wants progress, those trust issues need to be solved and we need to move forward." I HOPE that message was heard...
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree wholeheartedly! After sitting and listening to one ally being questioned repeatedly about his motives I had finally had enough, got up and walked out.

Grilling someone as this person was being accosted verbally only serves to tick them off and cause them to become your enemy. I can tell you I would never throw you under the bus but does that mean I won't at a later date? Kinda depends on who ticked me off and what I'm being offered in return, dontcha think?

Dave, I and (I think I can speak for) my entire club, are behind this effort but I'll stay home and read the minutes rather than sit through that kind of behavior.

Frenchie of IE4W

Frenchie I hope you change your mind on not attending future meetings. As Dave and Dustin have said what happened at the beginning of the meeting needed to happen. I am ASSUMING here, in the future PFJV and OHV will probably not attend FOJV meetings, so those distractions will be gone.

The rest of the meeting was allot more productive and I'm sure future meetings will be even more productive. Please don't judge the future of FOJV by the hour you spent at that meeting. We need all the support we can get if we are to going save JV.

You are not the only one at these meetings that gets up before the sun. My rooster crows at 3:30 in the AM and I Live in Orange County. It's a matter of what is important. I see saving JV and off-roading as more important than loosing a few hours of beauty rest. Believe me I need my beauty sleep as much as the next guy.

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Old 07-04-2008, 09:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Frenchie I hope you change your mind on not attending future meetings. As Dave and Dustin have said what happened at the beginning of the meeting needed to happen. I am ASSUMING here, in the future PFJV and OHV will probably not attend FOJV meetings, so those distractions will be gone.
I'll be there! I was just blowing off steam. I agree, I lose a lot of sleep over not-so-important issues. This is one worth losing sleep over.

"Not-so-bent out of shape" Frenchie
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:22 AM   #22 (permalink)
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glad for the change of heart and like Joe said you ain't the only 1 that gets up b4 the sun my day starts at 4:00am 6 days a week
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks of the commitment and dedication on your part....

I want to see Johnson Valley remain as the premier recreation destination unencumbered by disrupting influences.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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"Unemcumbered by disruptive influences....'

If that is a goal, we need to get rid of those Bender guys first...
I hear some of them drive Toyotas!
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