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Old 05-23-2012, 05:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
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if your lock tab is ok - use a new one EACH time - and you are using decent quality bearings (eg timken) and you are still experiencing loose bearings, i would look at the stub axle for being worn.

do not buy britpart shite. Buy genuine.


And yes, having loose bearings will push your pistons back into the calliper due to the massive run out of the disks when they're flapping about. It can be quite un-nerving!
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
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if your lock tab is ok - use a new one EACH time - and you are using decent quality bearings (eg timken) and you are still experiencing loose bearings, i would look at the stub axle for being worn.

do not buy britpart shite. Buy genuine.


And yes, having loose bearings will push your pistons back into the calliper due to the massive run out of the disks when they're flapping about. It can be quite un-nerving!

tks nick i ordered new washers and bearings (timken) and i will look into the stub axle wear also tks
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Also ignore the manual about doing them up. Most of us brits just tighten them till they bind aand then back the nut off 45 degrees. Always worked for me and most of the landrover owners I know do em up that way too.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I am pretty sure your 75mm spacers are the problem here. I dont want to imagine what they are doing to your swivel pin bearings!
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:12 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Also ignore the manual about doing them up. Most of us brits just tighten them till they bind aand then back the nut off 45 degrees. Always worked for me and most of the landrover owners I know do em up that way too.
Yup, I've always done em up by 'feel' never been a major problem.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:35 AM   #31 (permalink)
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They went to the stub with the flat on it, rather than a groove.

They improved on the design so well that few of the lock tabs fit the stub axle without some adjustment with a file. Yet another part where the OE fits as bad, if not worse than the cheap aftermarket. I scratched my had when an aftermarket didn't fit. I growled at the price I'd paid of an OE when it didn't fit!

Even the axles I've torn apart where the inner race was welded to the stub axle from spinning, I'd never had to deal with the nuts loosening (except for my aforementioned incident before the Rallye in '05, MG, it's been that long?)
The change in lock tab style coincided with the change from imperial to metric hubs (which is almost the 10/24 spline split except for a few random later 10 spline axles).

Is the OP folding the tabs over onto the lock-nuts? Is there still a hard washer between the bearing and the first lock-nut? I can't remember if this hard washer was keyed into the stub or not.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:08 AM   #32 (permalink)
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There is a washer (2nm thick?) between the bearing and the inner nut, this a plain washer that isn't keyed onto the stub.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
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There is a washer (2nm thick?) between the bearing and the inner nut, this a plain washer that isn't keyed onto the stub.
Distance piece I think it's called in the parts/service manuals.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:25 AM   #34 (permalink)
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The change in lock tab style coincided with the change from imperial to metric hubs (which is almost the 10/24 spline split except for a few random later 10 spline axles).
I'd never noticed the difference!

Learn something new every day.

thanx!
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:10 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Ok, listen ...

I donīt have that much experience, but as for the couple of old-used axles I have taken apart all the stub axles had marks from a spinning inner bearing race. In fact sometimes a small step could be felt from the bearing milling down the stub axle if closely inspected.
Even with new bearings and bearing preload adjustment in whichever way, the bearing play reappeared. One solution were new Stub Axles. But, accordind to a friend who runs a Rover-biased garage, this only extends the time until the problem reappered - the heavier the car the sooner. Could make sense, because if proper adjustment alone would be the cure to self-increasing bearing play, that shouldnīt have happend in the first place, given that Rover made the bearing preload right in the factory.

>> The solution of my friend was to convert to the Defender TD5 bearing scheme. Basically this consist only of a small tube which acts as a spacer between the outer and inner bearing. When the two nuts then were tightened, all stayed well. A heavy camper 130" that used to come back for re-adjustment neednīt that service after the conversion.

Only problem is, you have to have a selection of different sizes of the spacers at hand and trial-fit them to find the one that fits. But once thatīs done, that spacer can stay with that hub (should bearing exchange become necessary later on).
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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have a look there:
http://landypedia.de/index.php/Radla..._%28Technik%29
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I've lost count of the number of Td5's I've converted to run the 2 but and lock washer setup.

The spacer between the bearings with a locknut is an easier way to manufacture them, but becomes a pain in the ass when a bit of play develops.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Ok the inner race was worn a bit. I put new bearings timken and land ROVER lock tabs. One of the stub axles was worn were the seal sits but seemed ok were the bearing sits.
I will try that and report back.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Also forgot to mention that i changed the hubs that were pretty loose )
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Genuine parts=low bidder, and a low bidder that will accept less for each part every coming year
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Ok, listen ...

I donīt have that much experience, but as for the couple of old-used axles I have taken apart all the stub axles had marks from a spinning inner bearing race. In fact sometimes a small step could be felt from the bearing milling down the stub axle if closely inspected.
Even with new bearings and bearing preload adjustment in whichever way, the bearing play reappeared. One solution were new Stub Axles. But, accordind to a friend who runs a Rover-biased garage, this only extends the time until the problem reappered - the heavier the car the sooner. Could make sense, because if proper adjustment alone would be the cure to self-increasing bearing play, that shouldnīt have happend in the first place, given that Rover made the bearing preload right in the factory.

>> The solution of my friend was to convert to the Defender TD5 bearing scheme. Basically this consist only of a small tube which acts as a spacer between the outer and inner bearing. When the two nuts then were tightened, all stayed well. A heavy camper 130" that used to come back for re-adjustment neednīt that service after the conversion.

Only problem is, you have to have a selection of different sizes of the spacers at hand and trial-fit them to find the one that fits. But once thatīs done, that spacer can stay with that hub (should bearing exchange become necessary later on).
Even healthy hubs show signs of the bearing inner race rotating. But I suspect it's a slow creep rather than spinning.

A spacer that is tuned the correct length between the bearings will solve most issues, but it will require setting for each hub and pair of bearings.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:59 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Genuine parts=low bidder, and a low bidder that will accept less for each part every coming year
Indeed, but still better than the majority of aftermarket replacements. At least OEM suppliers have standards to meet. Anyone can make and sell aftermarket parts.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:47 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Could make sense, because if proper adjustment alone would be the cure to self-increasing bearing play, that shouldnīt have happend in the first place, given that Rover made the bearing preload right in the factory.
Only if the bearings became loose before the first hub service.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:46 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Indeed, but still better than the majority of aftermarket replacements. At least OEM suppliers have standards to meet. Anyone can make and sell aftermarket parts.
You'd be surprised to find that most aftermarket parts are made in the same factories as the OE stuff. Often-times, the tooling is even from the OE supplier.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Even healthy hubs show signs of the bearing inner race rotating. But I suspect it's a slow creep rather than spinning.

A spacer that is tuned the correct length between the bearings will solve most issues, but it will require setting for each hub and pair of bearings.
I suppose the bearings are machined to tolerances that small, that the spacer, once selected, can stay forever with that hub. Thinkī itīs not the bearings that you care for when selecting the thickness of the spacer but the machining of the hub at itīs production. If a bearing was adjusted the "old fashioned" way it doesnīt matter whether the two of them are 1mm further apart or not as long as they are parallel to each other.
I vaguely remember the intervals between the spacers available are rather coarse. I do not worry when I will have to change a bearing (but I can only speak for myself. And I think a bearing, if given some fresh lubricant from time to time can live just as long as the vehicle itself).
In my case there were only two different thicknesses of spacers necessary (three were of the same size).

Last edited by landybehr; 05-25-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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It's the offset between inner and outer races on taper roller bearings that I think could change.
You should be reasonably safe within the same brand, but between brands I'd expect some variation bigger than the usual range of preload or end-float.

PT, yes the same tooling, but often completely different materials. I had a brand new britpart indicator switch that was the most brittle plastic I have encountered. It broke and was re-glued more than three times. Always a long way from home and driving back with no indicators.
I have gone back to genuine lucas indicator switches and found them impossible to break in the same manner. Their plastic is tough and rubbery.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:46 PM   #47 (permalink)
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It's the offset between inner and outer races on taper roller bearings that I think could change.
You should be reasonably safe within the same brand, but between brands I'd expect some variation bigger than the usual range of preload or end-float.

PT, yes the same tooling, but often completely different materials. I had a brand new britpart indicator switch that was the most brittle plastic I have encountered. It broke and was re-glued more than three times. Always a long way from home and driving back with no indicators.
I have gone back to genuine lucas indicator switches and found them impossible to break in the same manner. Their plastic is tough and rubbery.
Are you aware of the fact that the Lucas company has not existed since about 2001? Anyone who will pay TRW the licensing fee can use the logo. Look at the box, it clearly states, logo and trademarks used under license.

Genuine Lucas indeed.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:44 PM   #48 (permalink)
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britpart is CRAP as far as im concerned.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:29 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Britpart is utterly wank as far as most people are concerned.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Are you aware of the fact that the Lucas company has not existed since about 2001? Anyone who will pay TRW the licensing fee can use the logo. Look at the box, it clearly states, logo and trademarks used under license.

Genuine Lucas indeed.
The part could have been that old (new old stock on ebay). It was in all respects identical to the original part which I still had. Just not worn out. It could also have been produced by Elta. I don't have the box any more and I didn't look for a date stamp.
I have just located a new genuine hazard switch for my 85. I'll try to find a date on that when it arrives.

Last edited by Dougal; 05-26-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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