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Old 05-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Bearing problems D1 on 35s

I've had a few problems with my brakes and have narrowed it down to the bearings getting loose. no matter the preload I put on them during the trail they start loosening up ? I'm surely doing something wrong.Also forgot to mention that I have spacers 1.5 inches. The brake problem is 95% in the trail so that's why we think that this is the problem. I have changed everything including the hubs.
Any input welcomed.
My land rover mechanic suggested that I should put bigger bearings and have the hubs machined to fit.


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Old 05-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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this the same mechanic that "built" your axle swap?

is this on the portals or the rover axles?
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I had serious issues with wheel bearings coming loose on my d90 when I went by the book for install. I recommend going a bit tighter on preload and crank down on the outter locking nut. If you still have an issue, do the same again, but once the assembly is tight, drill a hole through both hub nuts and hammer in a long spring pin. Make sure you make them long so you have some exposed pin to remove it for service.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kyle_T View Post
this the same mechanic that "built" your axle swap?

is this on the portals or the rover axles?
This is a regular rover axles truck.


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Old 05-21-2012, 05:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Any mechanic who would suggest machining out for bigger bearing is an idiot.
using new bearings, nuts and washers would be the first thing to try. I run 25 mm spacers up front and have had 9.00r16s on them in the past with no problems.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
I had serious issues with wheel bearings coming loose on my d90 when I went by the book for install. I recommend going a bit tighter on preload and crank down on the outter locking nut. If you still have an issue, do the same again, but once the assembly is tight, drill a hole through both hub nuts and hammer in a long spring pin. Make sure you make them long so you have some exposed pin to remove it for service.
Ok I'll try that tks. Did it give you problems with your brakes ? Like a gap when applying brakes like if you had a temporary problem like an air issue ?


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Old 05-21-2012, 05:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I never had brake issues. I caught the loose bearings before any damage or loss of performance occurred. I regularly swerved the truck to detect loose bearings and other issues as part of my regular maintenance.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Any mechanic who would suggest machining out for bigger bearing is an idiot.
using new bearings, nuts and washers would be the first thing to try. I run 25 mm spacers up front and have had 9.00r16s on them in the past with no problems.
I have tried the new bearings and no luck. Also I'm running 35x12.5 km2 on there and my truck fully loaded weighs 7,000 pounds is this like your set up ? Probably not.
Do you run the same trails that i do ? Drilling a hole in the nut to hold it in there so the bearings don't come loose is worth a shot. If this problem was easy it would of been resolved a while ago.


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Old 05-21-2012, 06:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Any signs of the bearings/races spinning?

Any loss of torque on the outer retaining nut?
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Any signs of the bearings/races spinning?

Any loss of torque on the outer retaining nut?
I'll check for the bearings/race spinning but the outer nut looses torque no matter the torque I put on it. If I torque it more I'll probably burn the bearings. I have put synthetic grease because I'm torquing them more.


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Old 05-21-2012, 07:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Are you setting the bearings by torque or end float? Most people use a torque figure on coilers for some reason, but the SIIA&B FC's and 109 1 Tons came with 36's stock and I've never heard of issues with the hub bearings coming loose. Standard method on Series hub bearings is setting by end float.
When you tighten the outer nut that will distort the inner nut enough to reduce the end float so you may have to try several times. Once you figure out the balance you can have the outer nut really tight yet maintain the correct end float.

Alternatively, maybe the later stake nuts would help.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Are you setting the bearings by torque or end float? Most people use a torque figure on coilers for some reason, but the SIIA&B FC's and 109 1 Tons came with 36's stock and I've never heard of issues with the hub bearings coming loose. Standard method on Series hub bearings is setting by end float.
When you tighten the outer nut that will distort the inner nut enough to reduce the end float so you may have to try several times. Once you figure out the balance you can have the outer nut really tight yet maintain the correct end float.

Alternatively, maybe the later stake nuts would help.
Your definitely way more knowledgeable than I am. I used to torque them with the oem specs but it never worked. Then I tried a little more each time but it's not working.
What do you mean by End float ? Also the stake nuts is ??? From a series truck ?


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Old 05-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok I saw a end float measurement on YouTube. By end float I would need a measurement to start off with ? And what would that be if this is the right question lol
Jeez were learning something here !


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Old 05-22-2012, 05:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The end float measurement is in the manual actually. IIRC it's 0.010mm. I don't have my manual with me.

The stake nuts were apparently used on later 90's, or maybe just something offered aftermarket. I've never used them. There was a discussion about them on one of the Rover forums, but I don't remember which.

I was thinking about it and suspect that maybe the reason Rover when to a torque value (in the repair narrative) is that it's easier and for most people is "close enough".
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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How does pinning the two nuts together not result in both nuts loosening?

If one is using knew lock tabs and bending them over well, I don't see ow this is happening.

The one and only time I had a problem, I assumed I hadn't tightened the inner nut well enough as once I tightened it up, it remained tight for another 20K miles or so.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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How does pinning the two nuts together not result in both nuts loosening?

If one is using knew lock tabs and bending them over well, I don't see ow this is happening.

The one and only time I had a problem, I assumed I hadn't tightened the inner nut well enough as once I tightened it up, it remained tight for another 20K miles or so.
I was wondering the same thing while reading this. Doesn't the lock washer provide the same function as a spring pin? If both nuts are loosening with the lock washer properly installed I don't see why they wouldn't loosen with the spring pin as well.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Often the cheap soft lock washer fails to keep the nuts locked solidly then the assembly works the little tab until it fails. Then the whole assembly comes completely loose. Again this is due to the cheap soft metal used onthe washer.

The little pin idea is not mine. It is a common method used in some larger machinery. There are other variations of it. One of those is a pin as well but it drives into the collar and into the spindle keyway to lock the nut like the factory lock washer.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Ideally, the inner sleeve of the bearing should not be turning at all as that will cause galling of the stub axle, and kinda defeats the purpose of using a bearing in the first place-transferring the load to a wear-resistant, semi-easily and inexpensively replaced wear component.

A properly pre-loaded tapered roller bearing should not have these problems (when I experienced a loose bearing, I attributed it to midnight wrenching to make it to Leadville!).

As for locking on larger fasteners, Dutch lock, Dutch collar, something like that comes to mind. The locking mechanism used on the turbine bearings at the power plants were fascinating to me, for one thing, they were on the order of 18" in diameter and the shafts turned at IIRC, 18K RPM. I wish I could remember the term for the locknuts/washers/fasteners.

Where's Tobias when we need the input of a metallurgist?
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ideally, the inner sleeve of the bearing should not be turning at all as that will cause galling of the stub axle, and kinda defeats the purpose of using a bearing in the first place-transferring the load to a wear-resistant, semi-easily and inexpensively replaced wear component.

A properly pre-loaded tapered roller bearing should not have these problems (when I experienced a loose bearing, I attributed it to midnight wrenching to make it to Leadville!).

As for locking on larger fasteners, Dutch lock, Dutch collar, something like that comes to mind. The locking mechanism used on the turbine bearings at the power plants were fascinating to me, for one thing, they were on the order of 18" in diameter and the shafts turned at IIRC, 18K RPM. I wish I could remember the term for the locknuts/washers/fasteners.

Where's Tobias when we need the input of a metallurgist?
PT, when you are running larger rubber and pounding your truck like you have a pair, the rover stuff likes to come loose. Just a fact of life with light weight junk. Not all will experience it, but it happens often.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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PT, when you are running larger rubber and pounding your truck like you have a pair, the rover stuff likes to come loose. Just a fact of life with light weight junk. Not all will experience it, but it happens often.
Often? Yeah, right.

So far, it's been so common that three of us have commented about it and one admitted it was likely due to poorly set pre-load.

If the bearing is spinning on the shaft, something is wrong with the set-up.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Often? Yeah, right.

So far, it's been so common that three of us have commented about it and one admitted it was likely due to poorly set pre-load.

If the bearing is spinning on the shaft, something is wrong with the set-up.
Im just wondering if I put lock tight on the lock nuts with new bearings and new washers ? Sounds stupid probably is lol Fuken running out of ideas. Any body running 35x12.5 with 75mm spacers on here with a lot of weight ?


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Old 05-22-2012, 06:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I repaired many d90's both with loose bearings and a few that ate the spindle with the remaing 3 wheels being very loose.

I had quite a few discos come in for loose wheelbearings as well when I worked for LR.

It was a very common problem even when properly setup from the get go.

I want to say LR upgraded/changed manufacturer for the lock washer, but my memory is to fuzzy on that one.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:36 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The design was altered around 92-93, the lock washer went from having a little lug to a large flat, and the stub axle modified to suit also, whilst the Td5 era stuff had a spacer collar between the bearings, and a nyloc but holding it all together. Half the time the nut was rusted into the stub so didn't stand a chance of moving.

I've seen the earlier lock washers shear the lug plenty of times, but never the later ones, so things obviously improved there.

Spacer wise I've got a set of 30mm on my 110, and no bearing issues.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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whilst the Td5 era stuff had a spacer collar between the bearings, and a nyloc but holding it all together.
Maybe that's the nut I was thinking of.

I have spacers, but only run 7.50x16's, so not a fair comparison really.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:53 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I want to say LR upgraded/changed manufacturer for the lock washer, but my memory is to fuzzy on that one.
They went to the stub with the flat on it, rather than a groove.

They improved on the design so well that few of the lock tabs fit the stub axle without some adjustment with a file. Yet another part where the OE fits as bad, if not worse than the cheap aftermarket. I scratched my had when an aftermarket didn't fit. I growled at the price I'd paid of an OE when it didn't fit!

Even the axles I've torn apart where the inner race was welded to the stub axle from spinning, I'd never had to deal with the nuts loosening (except for my aforementioned incident before the Rallye in '05, MG, it's been that long?)
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