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Old 07-20-2012, 03:25 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red90rover View Post
Not in a sprung over done right. My friend's truck is softer and flexier than a regular coiler.
True but a sprung-over isn't a factory set-up...
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:40 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Because besides the guy's that are into the 'retro Jeep thing' that will only use real factory Jeep parts or period correct modifications, if the average Jeep owning American wants to go off roading the first modification is usually a lift and the biggest tyres he can fit.

Little thought is expended on how to improve the suspensions performance on a stock sized tyre. Just a culture difference I guess?
Maybe that's it. Just thought it weird that there are some lovely well developed kits out there, but parabolics seem completely absent from the US market entirely.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
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ok, well here's the motor. Pretty standard at the mo, just got parabolics front and rear and running some 7.50's. Sadly need to do some chassis work on it too, but then I'm going to start the SOA conversion.


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Old 07-20-2012, 06:16 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 100SRV View Post
True but a sprung-over isn't a factory set-up...
depends on the Land-Rover
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 100SRV View Post
True but a sprung-over isn't a factory set-up...
And how exactly is this thread about factory setups?
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Your leaf suspension setups and ideas

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Originally Posted by red90rover View Post
And how exactly is this thread about factory setups?
Someone observed thus:
Not in a sprung over done right. My friend's truck is softer and flexier than a regular coiler.

In response to this Originally Posted by 100SRV
Where a coil-sprung 'Rover scores over a leafer is the lack of leaf springs to act as ground anchors in rutted ground, more compliant suspension to allow creeping over obstacles rather than throwing the car at them and the ability to sit back and enjoy the scenery rather than spending all your time worrying about where to place the truck.

But it isn't about factory setups is it!

I have wanted to build a leafer with spring-over using coiler axles, I think a contributor to one of the UK Land Rover magazines has a truck like this. Perhaps modified LWB rear springs or parabolics. Benefits are all-Rover parts and disc brakes, also you could run a permanent 4x4 transfer box too if you wanted. Not sure how the ALRC would view such a conversion though as factory mounting points aren't used.

GKN engineering had a composite leaf spring proposed for the LDV van (this was 1988), not sure what happened to the concept. You'd need excellent control of production processes to guard against delamination and failure - perhaps this is why steel is still favourite.

What happened to the once fashionable (in the UK at least) revolver shackle idea?
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think the revolver shackle idea often causes more problems than it solves. Once you take a step back from the RTI ramp silliness, real, usable suspension travel on a on/off road vehicle has a definite 'point of diminishing returns' where huge amounts of extra travel is only utilized occasionally.......usually just before you get stuck anyway.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Benefits are all-Rover parts and disc brakes, also you could run a permanent 4x4 transfer box too if you wanted.
How is this a benefit? For cheap and plentiful spare parts sure, but for anything else...no.
How are you going to fit proper steering links to a rover knuckle with cast arms? Welding to it can be done, by someone who knows what he's doing. But still... I wouldn't want to rely on it.

Hilux axles are way easier, spring over from the factory, huge aftermarket support as well. Front axle is basically bolt-on. Only problem on an 88 would be the centered rear diff.

Landcruiser axles can easily be fitted too, high-steer is only a creditcard away. Plenty of aftermarket support. And stronger too.

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Once you take a step back from the RTI ramp silliness, real, usable suspension travel on a on/off road vehicle has a definite 'point of diminishing returns' where huge amounts of extra travel is only utilized occasionally.......usually just before you get stuck anyway.
Agreed. But for me that point lies pretty far away. I'm very happy with my 40" plus of articulation. Makes for a very comfy, balanced feel on very uneven terrain. Combined with dual lockers it will get you VERY far (or very stuck)
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:57 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I have wanted to build a leafer with spring-over using coiler axles.... Not sure how the ALRC would view such a conversion though as factory mounting points aren't used.
Should be fine for "modified" class. Just look at some of the 80" coilers. Also you could 'technically' use the factory mounting plates, just in a different location.

I think the regs you'd want to cite would be:

C.5. SUSPENSION & AXLES.
C.5.1. Any Land Rover suspension system and components may be used on any model and the suspension mounts modified to accommodate the components

B.10.3. Additional damper mountings are permitted to be in place



It's established that most/many of the CCVT motors move the damper mounts and sometimes spring mounts too, so you wouldn't really be doing anything any different.

It's also wise to note the Series IIb and 101FC both used spring over axle leaf suspension. Reg C.5.1 clearly says you can use this on any other Land Rover vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 100SRV View Post
GKN engineering had a composite leaf spring proposed for the LDV van (this was 1988), not sure what happened to the concept. You'd need excellent control of production processes to guard against delamination and failure - perhaps this is why steel is still favourite.
I think some Corvettes use a composite transverse leaf spring. Not quite the same thing but shows steel isn't always favoured.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:06 AM   #35 (permalink)
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How are you going to fit proper steering links to a rover knuckle with cast arms? Welding to it can be done, by someone who knows what he's doing. But still... I wouldn't want to rely on it.
I'd love some ideas and solutions on this.

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Originally Posted by Toy-Roverlander View Post
Hilux axles are way easier, spring over from the factory, huge aftermarket support as well. Front axle is basically bolt-on. Only problem on an 88 would be the centered rear diff.

Landcruiser axles can easily be fitted too, high-steer is only a creditcard away. Plenty of aftermarket support. And stronger too.
I don't deny any of this. But what you need to understand is the ALRC and ALRC events are huge and popular. By building a vehicle that cannot be used for such events you are closing off a lot of off roading.

In my area there are 2 to 3 trials every single month - all ALRC. My local club of which my Dad and Uncle are founder members is ALRC.

There are other events, but they are further away and it would be removing myself from something I've been around since the early/mid 1980's.


In fact in the UK (unless you do Challenge events). There's probably a pretty good claim to say if you are not sticking with the ALRC, then don't even bother with a Land Rover. A Wrangler or Jimny or something else would be a more interesting way to go.


So sadly but through necessity it will be running Rover axles.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:06 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with Rover axles especially for trials. It's true they don't stand up much against huge, American style tyres, mission impossible rock gardens and big V8 power.......but that's not what trialing is about is it.

Most trialers are as light as possible and driven with a degree of finesse. I suppose the opposite would be those ridiculous 'rock bouncers' that just hammer down until they reach the top or something breaks.

A big part of the ALRC events is the social side, it's worth building a Land Rover just for that.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:44 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with Rover axles especially for trials. It's true they don't stand up much against huge, American style tyres, mission impossible rock gardens and big V8 power.......but that's not what trialing is about is it.

Most trialers are as light as possible and driven with a degree of finesse. I suppose the opposite would be those ridiculous 'rock bouncers' that just hammer down until they reach the top or something breaks.

A big part of the ALRC events is the social side, it's worth building a Land Rover just for that.
you couldnt have said it better,
trialling is about reading the terrain and placement of your vehicle within that terrain to navigate a set course, without stopping or going 'out of bounds' or hitting marker canes. Mega power is very rarely needed, unless the course is set out badly. Its all about driver skill and knowledge. People in the UK regularly see fairly standard leafers and coilers absolutely wiping the floor with the tricked up brigade at trials. Thats not because the terrain is easy, but they can tackle obstacles that look undrivable with relative ease by knowing how to drive.

i;ve been trialling for over 10 years and in that time I have broken 2 shafts, 1 diff and 1 CV joint. All standard rover parts. In all but one case it was wear and tear, that exception was i got frustrated and the red mist took over and i blew the cv joint by flooring it over a rock ledge. Wouldnt mind but i could have got over it had i chosen the right line in the first place and would have needed less than 1500rpm and tickled the throttle.....
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:37 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Hi RoverDan. Is this still running Rover axles? If so, would you be able to post up a few pictures of your high steer setup? Thanks.
Sorry, been out of touch for a bit. Yes, it's running rover axles. I'll post up some pics tonight.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:04 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Your leaf suspension setups and ideas

I used 3.5" lift front leafs from a YJ to keep it SUA on a set of Discovery axles, I had to move the front mounts forward a bit and the rears back a few inches. I think they're about 6" longer than stock and were $60 for each pack. I used a RHD D1 steering knuckle on the right side and bored the arms for 3/4" heims to get a "high steer". 6" shackles and kept the stock shocks and mounting locations. It rides much better than stock and steering radius is now very tight.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:26 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I like that.

What engine are you running?
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:00 PM   #41 (permalink)
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diesel 2.5 n/a
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:41 AM   #42 (permalink)
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coil to leafs

H- could you please post a photo showing the heims at the rh swivel arm..had contemplated something similar- but was going to ream a second hole for tre...like the heim idea better...John
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:24 AM   #43 (permalink)
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All in that's a nice tidy truck, and probably really nice to drive too.

Coupled with the weather and everything else in the pictures I think I'm actually feeling a little America envy, which as a resident of Scotland isn't a common occurrence.

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Old 07-27-2012, 05:04 AM   #44 (permalink)
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On the topic of steering linkages, I was looking over an FC101 the other day. Is there any reason I couldn't use something similar on an 88 SOA?


Here are some pics of the 101:



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Old 07-27-2012, 08:16 AM   #45 (permalink)
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yes you could - if you can find the bits.
i bet there aint many of them left hand hubs kicking around any more that have the 2 tre holes....

also, noone likes a kinked steering bar - ideally you need the angle between the bottom of the drop arm and the connection at the hub to be as close to horizontal as possible - otherwise you suffer bump steer. hence why high steer knuckles are the thing to have.
But on a 101 - they have such little flex on those springs it wouldnt likely be apparent
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #46 (permalink)
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On the topic of steering linkages, I was looking over an FC101 the other day. Is there any reason I couldn't use something similar on an 88 SOA?

Yes, but you'd get pretty bad bump steer. You should search on steering geometry on here, especially bump steer. That will give you lots of good info.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I used 3.5" lift front leafs from a YJ to keep it SUA on a set of Discovery axles, I had to move the front mounts forward a bit and the rears back a few inches. I think they're about 6" longer than stock and were $60 for each pack. I used a RHD D1 steering knuckle on the right side and bored the arms for 3/4" heims to get a "high steer". 6" shackles and kept the stock shocks and mounting locations. It rides much better than stock and steering radius is now very tight.
GREAT setup!
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:06 AM   #48 (permalink)
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You'd be surprised how much flex you can get out of a 101 with standard springs, and indeed how well they perform off road.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:48 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Nice truck hoxie........Bet it flexes nicely with the longer springs. Any axle wrap issues with the yj springs?

I had done the same on a truck using 110 axles, but i reamed another set of holes rearwards on the arms, for the trackrod. The track rod then had to have a slight kink in it to clear the diff pan. TRE's on the steering are not permitted for road use here unless they have rubber boots on them.

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #50 (permalink)
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RH swivel
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H- could you please post a photo showing the heims at the rh swivel arm..had contemplated something similar- but was going to ream a second hole for tre...like the heim idea better...John
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