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Old 06-02-2003, 10:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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ICM replacement - did I miss something?

Ok, so I replaced the ICM on the LWB that's undergoing the factory restoration.

Replaced the plugs (gapped them too), new cap, rotor, ICM, etc...

Went to start it up with the anticipation of it happening immidiately, but I was VERY dissapointed.

Nothing!!!!! UGH@!!!

It was 104 today and I was in the sun for most of it sweating my butt off all to be dissapointed by the non-start.

Ali suggested that I replace the reluctor plate along with the ICM, so I might head down to the stealer (read: dealer) and see if they have one.

I also replaced the plug to the ICM with a newer one just in case the old one was shorting out.

This is the first time I've ever taken out and replaced a distributor, so I might have screwed something up, but I don't think I did. I marked the rotor position and the dizzy position, and everything went back into place.

I even traced the + and - wires to the coil for shorts, and re-did the connectors on the coil end. Even tried a seperate coil, but nothing.

I even went so far as to replace the new ICM with the original to see if the new one was buggered up, and it still wouldn't start.

Am I missing something here????

Man this sucks. At least I got my spring retainers done. They work as advertised and are low-tech.
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you need me to come over tomorrow?

If you have a couple of spare relays, I'll have it fixed fer sure!
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Old 06-03-2003, 07:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Have it towed out, I have room for ONE more non-running Rover in the driveway.

Just what did you do? Did you relocate the ICM, or just replace it with a new one? Have you static timed the engine to insure you're in time?

Checking the timing is the least intensive, so I'd start there. If the timing is in order, then go back and check for the ground between the case of the amplifier module and the distributor and the nifty little ground wire, then lastly, trace down the new connector (can't leave well enough alone, can you? I'd think you have a closer relationship with Lord Lucas than that!).

Lemme know when to expect the tow truck, I can get to it late this week or early next

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Paul
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Old 06-03-2003, 07:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DieLucas!
Do you need me to come over tomorrow?

If you have a couple of spare relays, I'll have it fixed fer sure!
Start checking voltage from the plug wires back. Obviously if you have spark at the plug, you can bypass the rotor, and go back to square one. If no spark, work backwards til you find some spark.

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Old 06-03-2003, 07:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You guys think your'e so damn smart.

At least DieLucas! had a practical answer with the relays.

Here's a serious question though, if I'm by myself, how do I check for spark in the engine bay if I'm sitting or leaning into the cab turning over the ignition?

I replaced the ICM, not relocate. Also, I marked on the dizzy where the rotor's position was, and I marked on the block where the dizzy was installed. Everything went back together right on the marks, and the manual states that if that procedure is followed static timing is not necessary.

I do not have a timing light, nor do I know how to time a vehicle.

Thanks for jinxing me with the tow truck comment.

Sheeshe, what friends.
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Old 06-03-2003, 07:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serious One
Here's a serious question though, if I'm by myself, how do I check for spark in the engine bay if I'm sitting or leaning into the cab turning over the ignition?
Run a long wire from the coil to the cab. Probably best not to put it in your mouth or near your genitals (but knowing you...).

Actually, when running through my ignition system during the early stages of my RRC refurbish, I would pull the coil-distributor lead off the dizzy and leave the terminal exposed on the top ridge of the fender (near a bolt). Then standing outside the cab turning the engine over through the window, I could see if a spark was jumping (and whether my predicament was a spark problem or a fuel problem).










ps. I'll bring my timing light over.
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I do a very similar thing to check presence/absence of spark (BTW-nice catch, Red, I completely missed looking to see if there was a spark), using the longest plug wire from the most recent swap, I plug it into the coil and run the plug up to where I can see it while I crank the engine. I try to not have to run it all the way into the passenger compartment though, usually, there is something at ground potential I can find to ground it against.

The worst part for you will be trying to see the spark in the sunlight!

Thinking about it further, you might just want to put it in your mouth (or other orifice-Merv isn't here, somebody had to say it ) given the intesity of the sunlight.

Manuals, schramuals, we don't need no stinkin' manuals, we have PBB

Peace,
Paul

OS, this was one of those threads I was referring to in the PM.
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by PTSchram
OS, this was one of those threads I was referring to in the PM.
You makin' fun of me???
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally posted by PTSchram
Thinking about it further, you might just want to put it in your mouth (or other orifice-Merv isn't here, somebody had to say it ) given the intesity of the sunlight.

*sigh*
Mike, just have your neighbor hold it. You know which one I'm talking about.
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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ok, this may be obvious to some, but don't use the long wire technique and have it close to a carb...... Just in case you need to work on the series.... or the crew cab.

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Old 06-03-2003, 08:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serious One


You makin' fun of me???
No! In fact, I think I made reference to the question I asked both you and Perrone so I wouldn't get embarrassed publicly

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Old 06-03-2003, 09:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by redrangie
ok, this may be obvious to some, but don't use the long wire technique and have it close to a carb...... Just in case you need to work on the series.... or the crew cab.
j
Hehe, usually I remember that kind of stuff just as I reach for the ignition and this flash of 'what did I forget to do that could potentially kill me' goes through my head.

Had that happen last night during my midnight self-rescue of the crew cab. Don't ask. Let's just say I'm glad I wasn't using synthetic rope, and had the thick wire on the winch.
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Old 06-03-2003, 10:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Just went out to the truck, tested for spark by holding the wire next to my genetalia. YOWCH! Thanks redrangie.

So, I figured out I have spark from the coil. I reattatch the coil wire from the cap after looking at it and deciding that the inner metal sleeve just might not be long enough to make a good contact. I grabbed the needle nose pliers, pulled it out about 1/4 inch, reattatched it to the coil, and turned the key.

Fired right up.

This is with the old ICM.

So...now the question is do I put the new ICM back in and start all over again?

-OR-

Could my original non-start condition have been due to a bad coil wire???

I'm thinking I need to go and replace the ICM since it's all torn down and I know how to do it now.

I'll be out in the garage. If anyone feels a drastic desire to change my mind, feel free to call me at home.

702-395-8144

FAwwwwk!!!!!
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Old 06-03-2003, 10:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sometimes, PBB is better than Dweb!
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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New ICM is in, everything is hooked up nice and tidy (preparing for overpriced sale right??? ).

Fires up, but has a bit of a knocking sound from the top end. It's not in the heads, but sounds like it's right under the intake plenum. I'll drive it around and see if it goes away. I'm just thinking it's dry from sitting for 3 days.

In the attitude of preventative maintenance, now that I've replaced the ICM, what else is there that can cause the ignition to fail?

I figure there's the following:

coil
cap
rotor
wires
plugs
fuel pump
fuel lines
reluctor plate???

I'm not sure exactly what the reluctor plate is/does. Do they go bad? Ali suggested replacing it, but since it started I'm not in the mood to go overkill and totally rebuild the dizzy.

I played with the timing a bit to see what it would do, seems like the ECU can compensate for advanced or retarded timing? I am curious about timing now and will do a newbie search to find out just what it means to retard or advance, and what each will do to the engine.

Anyway, I'm going for a spin.

Jason, if you still want to come over that's cool.

Thanks for the help and hand-holding. Much-o-appreciated-o.
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serious One
Just went out to the truck, tested for spark by holding the wire next to my genetalia. YOWCH! Thanks redrangie.


FAwwwwk!!!!!
Being the visual guy that I am, I need a better visual to get that sick sight out of my head.
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You're on your own for the knocking.

Reluctor plate-this is the pick-up coil. There is a very simple resistance check fo rthis part, I believe that if the resistance is ont he order of 2K to 6K ohms, you're good to go.

On OBDI engines, there is no provision for computer control of the ignition timing.

What impact would fuel line or pump have on ignition? Might have an impact on driveability, but not ignition.

As for what can cause problems with drvieability, Just about anything. An oft-overlooked component is the tee-piece in the crank vent...

Cut it out with the hand-holding comments, we don't need to give Merv opportunities for cheap shots

Peace,
Paul
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I was going to put up some smart-ass link to a photograph of mutiliated genetalia, but instead I just managed to make myself sick. I'll save the rest of you the pleasure.

Knocking is gone.

Thanks again! (I think I'm gonna go puke)
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