D-44 swap

[Old Scout]

I'm asking this here because the Rover Boys on Discoweb think that swapping in American parts is wrong.

I running 235/85s and need to change to 4:10s The thought of buying the overpriced alloy axles and R&P for the rear diff pisses me off.

I'm looking into using a waggy offset d44 rear diff. Most of the Rover guys say just go buy a Salisbury out of a D110 for 600.00 and it is a easy swap. Were the fluck would you find a Salisbury in the states? All the ones I did find were off of a series III and were drum.

[Lance]

It makes sense to me to put the D44 in. Readily available parts, more upgrade options, and cheaper. Vehicle purists are

[Old Scout]

You sure are right about the purists part.

I was the only one on the side that a Atlas swap into a D90 was right. When is an Atlas ever wrong!
I got flamed by a gang for saying that any improvement in strength of parts is right and who cares were they came from.

[jasonmt]

Well, seeing how most of the information I have seen says the the Salisbury axles are built by DANA anyways, whats the problem? This page explains it better than i can :http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/FAQ_salisbury.htm
"

The Salisbury myth

While everyone agrees that the Land Rover Salisbury Axle assembly is indeed a Dana 60 and the strongest axles that the Rover factory put under series Land Rovers, there have been some myths built up over time regarding the origin of these axle assemblies.

Most people believe that these heavy duty Land Rover axles were built in Salisbury England under license from Dana, a division of Spicer. Well as it turns out there is no axle manufacturer in Salisbury England. And if one researches the Salisbury name:

http://www.dana.com/corporate/history/history1.htm

The Salisbury Wheel Company was founded in Jamestown, New York, in 1901 when C.W. Salisbury, a key-maker and mender of umbrellas, patented an automobile wheel, then pooled his life savings with two colleagues, Scott Penfield and E.D. Sherman, and started manufacture.

Salisbury's first customer was the E.R. Thomas company, maker of the Thomas Flyer. In 1905, the company started manufacturing front axles. Two years later rear axles were added to its product line.

Acquired by Spicer in 1919, Salisbury was moved to Toledo in 1929, closer to the center of the automotive industry. Salisbury axles became standard equipment in thousands of automotive vehicles. At the outbreak of World War II the light, Salisbury's rugged axles proved ideal for the Jeep. The Jeep proved so popular that in 1945 Salisbury had to build a new plant in Fort Wayne, Indiana. In 1970, the Salisbury Axle group was renamed the Spicer Axle Division.

The Salisbury axle was well known in England during and after WWII because of the Jeep. So in typical English fashion, the English never stopped calling the axle type "Salisburys" even after the division and their products were renamed.

Think of "Salisbury" as being the English term for "Dana 60". This means of course the Dana 60 parts fit into Salisbury carriers.

Upgrading:
Salisbury rear axles are standard equipment on series III 109s and are bolt on upgrades to older 109s. The stock series III rear prop shaft is required. They can be adapted to fit 88s. The spring mounts will need to be moved inwards.

The Land Rover one ton used a Salsibury axle front and rear as did some heavy duty commercial specials, the forward controls and some military versions. This means that series front axles can also be upgraded to Salsibury as a bolt on upgrade. The 101 forward control Salisbury axles are wider than the other series axles and would require some machine work to make them fit properly.

Salsibury axle housings are larger than the weaker Rover axle housings. As a result you loose around a half inch of ground clearance. The one ton Land Rovers made this up by using the Land Rover extended shackles and 900X16 tyres (34 in. dia). The extended shackles added 2 inches of body clearance for the two inch taller tyres. This combination raised the ground clearance about an inch over the stock 760X16 tyres and more than made up for the deeper Salisbury."

That should make the Rover Boys on Discoweb howl and it is like saying Toyota axles are made by Toyota and should not be swapped out for a dana 44/60
(1) 60's are stronger, and have availability for deeper gears
(2) Toyota axles are not made by Toyota, much like salisbury axles are not made by Rover

[Old Scout]

The Salisbury Axle is out for two reasons.
The disco is my daily driver and I do wheel it but it will never see anything that a well built FF D-44 can't handle. My Scout has a 60.
The Salisbury ( D60) carrier split in on the wrong side. I will need to keep this as my daily driver three more years and 4:10 with 32"s is plenty for now. If I do want to go deeper I would need to buy a ARB all over again.

[NECKSTER]

Just throw in the d44 and call it good. If the Rover boys give ya shit, just tell em it is a mini Salisbury diff.

[ErikS]

I don't know how much it would cost you by the time you bought a D44 and made the required mods to make it fit(do the spring pads line up?shock mounts line up?chassis links line up?find one with disc brakes?) but the 6-700 bucks it would cost for the heavy duty axels from great basin rovers might be the cost effective way of handling the project cause they swap right in. By the way if you do swap to a D44, post it on here with pics. I would be interested in doing that to my disco if the cost doesn't exceed that 700 dollar price of GBR's axels.

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by ErikS
I don't know how much it would cost you by the time you bought a D44 and made the required mods to make it fit(do the spring pads line up?shock mounts line up?chassis links line up?find one with disc brakes?) but the 6-700 bucks it would cost for the heavy duty axels from great basin rovers might be the cost effective way of handling the project cause they swap right in. By the way if you do swap to a D44, post it on here with pics. I would be interested in doing that to my disco if the cost doesn't exceed that 700 dollar price of GBR's axels.

YEA 675.00 for axles and 350.00 for a freaking R&P is just wrong! Fluck GBR!, I'm going Dana! I built my scout D-60(1.5"35spl) for much less,

[JamesCorbeil]

Ummm....

How very interesting!!!!!! I did not know the Salsbury/Spicer info, thanks!!!!

Old Scout, I'm planning the same swap as you!!! I'm glad Iwas referred to this forum. I've tried posting on afew others, met some nice people, they thought I was nuts about the axle swap, said just buy the parts they'll hold up just fine!!! I thought of the same things, d44 parts ANYWHERE, and at a reasonable cost!!!!
I'm in Canada so buying anything US is just over double, so the idea of the front axle shaft costing$3000can/ $1500us got me thinking about a Wagonner/Cherokee donour swap.

I've found that 75-79Wags with the quad. xcase are/seem to be possible candidates. Front and Rear diff both on dside. The width depending on the model is pretty close. There's a whole widetrack vs. narrow track debate on the jeep forum. check it out, plus it's friggin' hilarious to see these guys go at each other!!!
Anyways, if ya get any info, pass it along!!!!

I'm just trying to find a quad xcase waggy so I can compare some measurements!!!(How far is the pumpkin offset etc.....)

Good luck, I know I'll need it!!

[JamesCorbeil]

Yeah, that pside diffs.....

[roverhybrids]

I think you really need to price out the cost before you decide.
The whole support of the rear GBR upgrade is that no one or real close to no one is breaking the upgraded rear shafts.
So for the price of the shafts and gears can you build a d44 with disc brakes and the correct wheel bolt pattern?
i thought the rear shafts were 600? anyways
shafts 600
gears 200(price diff between rover and d44)
equals $800 to build the d44 for the same amount of money.

The doesn't seem to be much of a $ benefit of the swap.

The salisbury is the way I would go.

And for reference the salisbury has 1.25 24 spline shafts same spline as the rover axle. 35 spline jack the mac axle upgrade including new spindle/stub axles is ~1000

[JamesCorbeil]

The rear is not the problem! The upgrade is not a bad price for what you are getting but....
You don't have the same bolt pattern front to rear. (2 spares???)
The highest you can go is 4.75:1, a d44 goes alot higher!!!!
You have more than a few options foe lockers!!!!
You can get NICE WHEELS!!!!!
You can get wheels that are wider than 8"
You could FREE the hub if you killed the r&p
You could buy an old waggoneer or cherokee for the $$$ of one set of r&p for the rover axles.

Probably the best option is that you can go 33spline 1.41" shafts, just a little smaller than a 60 with all the clearance!!!

The front is the problem!! It's CV joint like a car or IFS truck if you
like. NO LUBE = EXPLOSION and costly repair!!!


A few pros.... semi-float axles most people swap up to this!!!
Nothings easier than bolt-in intalls.
If you aren't running big tires, the 24 splines instead of 10s should handle moderate off-road.
A purist would want all ROVER parts. (LOL from above)

I'm planning on some 35x14.5 SSR's I only want to do this once, 60's are coll but not as readily availble plus they hang low!!!! (and a little wide too!!!) (Some Jeep vehicles came from the factory with the 44/60 combo so I would snatch one of those up, given the chance!!!!)

All in all, to each his own!!!!

[road1will]

there is a guy on the D-90 list with a range rover that just put a D44 front axle in his rig. he is almost done with it. if i were you, i would do both front and rear at the same time.

[Old Scout]

Build a d-44 for $800 is easy!

I built an Custom D-60 for my scout , so lets use the actual dollars spent on it as a guide.

Housing from pic and pull with 4.10 R&P 47.00
Moser ends 60.00
Dutchman 1.5" 35 spline alloy axles 325.00
Labor to set up ARB and cut down the housing to 60" $200.00
Ford Motorsport disc brake kit 350.00
ARB 640.00

So with my waggy d-44 I'll need :
housing ~100.00 at PNP
Dutchman 1.31" , 30 spline alloy axles with 5x6.5" bolt pattern 275.00
Cut down housing and weld on new bearing ends 100.00
New bearing ends 60.00
New ring and pinion 145.00
Ring and pinion set up 85.00 (Gearman)
Use the old rover axle discs and calipers.
Sell the old rover axle for 250.00

Total ~500 to 550. 1100 with a ARB

I have a miller 210 mig so the 3-link stuff and the caliper bracket are no problem.

[evilfij]

Oldscout I am telling you get a salisbury

$400 used 110 salisbury from guy in NE PA (check RN BBS)

salvage your old hubs and disc brakes and bolt on to salisbury

ARB for salisbury $580

4.10s out of D60 $30

New rear DS (minus salvage on your current one) 100.

No welding, full bolt on. GBR axles 400 or ashcroft axles 250

Only way I would do D44 is if I swapped both at once and went to a non rover bolt pattern

Think about all the headaches. Everything from brakes to DS

Ron

[Strange Rover]

IMO swapping in a salisbury doesent really achieve much.

Both the standard rover and salisbury run the same size 24 spline axles. The D60 crown and pinion is over kill for the 24 splines. If you go to the salisbury then to make it worthwhile you really need to convert to 30 spline (requires slight machining of the spindle) or 35 spline (new spindle, different bearings, requires machining of the hub).

If you dont go with the larger axles (which is a big increase in cost) then you are probably better off just going with HD 24 spline axles.

Best option is to swap in some d44s (especially since you live in America)

I swaped in some from a Scout II.

Rear took about a day. And if I did the front again it would take about 3 days.

If you want some picts I can email them to you (Ive got heaps)

Sam

BTW Im not the same guy that has almost finnished doing the front d44 swap on the d90 list

[JamesCorbeil]

Hey,
I would love some pics!!! thurine@hotmail.com.
What rover do you have? I've got a '91RR and want to swap in some d44s like I said above. It's the radius arm brackets that I'm worried about, cut them off the old axles or have a fabricator make up some new ones.

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by JamesCorbeil
Hey,
I would love some pics!!! thurine@hotmail.com.
What rover do you have? I've got a '91RR and want to swap in some d44s like I said above. It's the radius arm brackets that I'm worried about, cut them off the old axles or have a fabricator make up some new ones.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...threadid=22051

[Strange Rover]

Thanks Old Scout thats me

Ive also got about 40 pictures each about 25K of closeups of the suspension links brackets tailshaft angles etc etc. I took the things when the rig was up on a hoist. (if the 25kb is not good enough res then if got em at about 125KB also)

I could also take some more today cause I have got the body on and off the chassis and I can get some more from the top.

I cut the radius arm brackets from an old housing (you will see this in the picts) but it would be easier to just fab up some new ones)


Oh yea, the rear tailshaft only has a slight vibration under load at about 35mph and apart from that its sweet. (changing the pinion angle may get rid of this).

Ive also welded up the centre diff and mod the front output shaft in the centre diff to make it parttime 4wd.

The tailshaft and welded centre diff seem to be strong enough as I twisted a rear axle the other week.

ANYONE ELSE WANT A COPY OF THESE PICTS SPEAK UP NOW CAUSE MY SERVER IS FNK SLOW AND THE FEWER TIMES I SEND THEM THE BETTER

[JamesCorbeil]

Hey,

Me again..... IWOULD LOVE SOME CLOSE UP PICKS OF THE XCASE AND THE AXLES. This is my first axle swap so I'd like to have as much info before hand as possible. Thanks again. That S2 body looks great on the frame. Be cool to see you in a rock crawl!!!!

[liveaxle]

Originally posted by Lance
It makes sense to me to put the D44 in. Readily available parts, more upgrade options, and cheaper. Vehicle purists are

I agree. Its a Disco, I mean come on!! You have to do something to set a Discovery apart.

[madcowdungbeetle]

I talked to a friend of mine last night who know's a guy puttin' a some 44's on his rover. I got the guys # so I'm gonna give him a call later today and see what I can find out. From what I was told, the swap didn't sound all too bad, in terms of cost, but I'll find out more. I'm definetly looking at doing a swap now, before I stick some 35's on the Disco.

-Jon


-Yea so this wasn't most informative post, but it's some activity on the board.

[Rover Addiction]

I like the salisbury I have in the back of my D110. Nobody I know of has actually broken the GBR 24 spline rear shafts. I'm planning on someday converting to the 1.5" 35 spline rear, but for now I'm happy with the 24 spline. Also, the Salisbury has a stronger pinion than the standard Dana 60 so it's not a bad thing to have. If you don't believe me, ask gearman Sean. He worked on mine. If you ever did break the shafts on either the stock axle or the Salisbury, they're an easy swap. And being full floaters, you can freewheel them home if you need to.

For your disco, I'd just do the gears and 24 spline shafts and be done with it. No worrying about bolt pattern, no worrying about new links or driveline vibes. Much easier. I guess it comes down to how much your time, effort, and headaches are worth!

Of course, if you're doing the front too in order to get rid of the CVs, that's a different story. At that point, maybe a D44 is a good idea front and rear. However, keep in mind you also need to convert the t-case to part time because you will wear out the u-joints in the front D44 running it full time. If you do both, why not go bulletproof right away so you don't have to do it again? Maybe 60 f&R? If your disco travels offroad fully loaded, that might not be a bad idea.

I'm definitely interested in hearing about your swap if you so decide!

-John

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by Rover Addiction


However, keep in mind you also need to convert the t-case to part time because you will wear out the u-joints in the front D44 running it full time.

-John

There are a few million Chebbys and Dodges with Full time 4 wheel drive and D44 and D60s with joints in them. !

[madcowdungbeetle]

RoverAddiction,
What are you running up front on your 110?

-Jon