Help me - I want a Defender!! Talk me out of it?

[DougM]

I've been reading a bunch of LR mags on vacation and am starting to like the D90 and D110. I really don't need the size of the 110, but am wondering if anyone can characterize and compare them as to their offroad abilities. Is the 110 literally the same suspension and running gear on a longer chassis? Or are their differences in their gear?

Also, how about some insight into repairing these beasts. I do quite a bit of wrenching, but are the kinds of things you guys end up repairing something you can normally handle at home or do you need to head to a shop? Looking for real answers here, not here to dig you guys. Thanks.

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by DougM
I've been reading a bunch of LR mags on vacation and am starting to like the D90 and D110. I really don't need the size of the 110, but am wondering if anyone can characterize and compare them as to their offroad abilities. Is the 110 literally the same suspension and running gear on a longer chassis? Or are their differences in their gear?

Also, how about some insight into repairing these beasts. I do quite a bit of wrenching, but are the kinds of things you guys end up repairing something you can normally handle at home or do you need to head to a shop? Looking for real answers here, not here to dig you guys. Thanks.

Thats easy YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY!

[road1will]

aside from any of the engine management electronics, a defender can be completely disassembled and reassembled with a set of hand wrenches. the 110 is a streched version of the 90 with very slight changes in gear ratios and other miniscule things, but overall it is the same vehicle. the biggest plus that a 110 has a much heavier duty rear axle- a version of the dana 60. it is a 1.25"dia 30 spline full floater i believe, with drums, but there is a disc retrofit kit.

however, 110s are a PITA to drag over trails where a lot of departure or breakover angle is needed. the rear end hangs out so much, and it is a long wheelbase for something of the size, that it is quite the belly and ass dragger. IMO build, from used parts, a 104" wheelbase defender using a bobbed 110 2 door tub and chop some out of the middle too. put a 350/NV4500/Atlas combo in it with a pair of 60s and wheel the piss out of it. you would spend just as much getting a 110 as building a setup like above.

or, if you want to get a ready built wheeler at a good buck, look at the www.D-90.com classifieds section. there are a couple of built trucks selling for under 20k.

good luck, hope to see you in the rover community.

[DougM]

Old Scout,

Speak for yourself. I wrench for fun and to get the job done right - not to save money.



Adam,

So in looking for a D90 with jump seats, are there any years that are preferable over others? If possible, I'd certainly prefer to avoid any models that have a traction control type electronic function. How about lockers - any year have factory lockers?

Thanks,

DougM

[road1will]

Doug,

No defenders in the US ever had any sort of traction-control system, not even a locker. land rover axles are notoriously weak, and upgraded units are available through Great Basin Rover.

well, all years were pretty much identical, aside from in 97 when they went to a automatic transmission and a better engine (same displacement, little bit more power, but a lot stronger bottom end). do you want a manual or an automatic? a hard top or a soft top? i suggest that you start by seeing The D-90 Source and joining the D-90 Mailing List.

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by DougM
Old Scout,

Speak for yourself. I wrench for fun and to get the job done right - not to save money.

Yet another NEWBIE that does not understand what means

[DougM]

Scout,

Guilty as charged (now I get it - sorta). Which reminds me. I found a sweet scout with extremely low miles at a just bankrupted marina in Idaho last summer. Posted it and someone from the Scout list was going to look at it. Any idea if anything came of it? It was well maintained as it was used by the mechanics just to move trailers around the lot and the odd errand.

[redraven]

I am very new here and know nothing about Defender 110. I am writting because I hope I can get the best advice here. We just moved to Germany from the US . We hope to come home in 3 years. My husband wants to buy a Defender 110 here and convert it to US specs and bring it back with us. I am afraid we are underestimating all that is involved. We are still just looking now. Can anyone give me a rundown of what it would take to convert a relativly new {late 90s}Defender for the US? Is it even legal?
Thanks in advance for any advice.

[sachilles]

It would have to be 25 years old to import it legally....or it would have to be federlized if its newer....and that would not be a cheap option.

[shupack]

I looked into bringing a defender home from england when I came back, I finaly found some info on the NHTSA website, the '93 110 can be legally imported, but no others newer than 25yrs, you have to find a Registered Importer (RI) that is willing to federalize it for you, I contacted about 10 and none of them would touch the project. I can dig up the link if you want it, let me know.

D

[sachilles]

Redraven...FYI...I may be talking out my butt, but federalizing is an expensive process. Basicly the vehicle would need to meet current safety standards for the US. One reason, the defenders aren't here anymore.
IE it would need some sort of passive restraint(airbags, automatic seatbelts etc).
Exhaust/emissions stuff.
Not a short list.
If you are considering bringing anything back from Germany, it should be 25 years old or so.....otherwise your in for a problem.
Even then you'll have to pay duty, and your state tax.
Last I knew, the one benefit you'll get with the military is free shipping back stateside.

-Seth

[LRover]

Find a nice '83 110 and spend the next three years restoring it, you can bring it in in four.

[shupack]

to federalize the '93 you just need to meet the standards that the '93 met when it was originally imported, including stupid stuff like

"objects in mirror are closer than they appear"
and a hand-break warning that says "brake" in the spedometer, instead of the traditional triangle with ! inside it type warning sign on the bottom of the dash....stupid stuff....

nhtsa instructions for RI's


look at p. 14, 18


regs

eligible list

If you can find an RI to do it, go for it, and let me know who you found so I can get one too..

D

[sachilles]

Originally posted by LRover
Find a nice '83 110 and spend the next three years restoring it, you can bring it in in four.

I think you could actually bring it in now...you just couldn't register it legally.

[redraven]

Hi ,
I just wanted to thank everyone for thier advice concerning importing a 110. I had no idea I would have to get it through the gates of heaven first.
We may still get one to play with for the next few years. We have a Jeep Wrangler now and she needs a friend.
Maybe try to find a US spec dico II instead to bring home.
Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink.
Thanks again,
Julie

[paperboy]

Are you in the military? If so, you can import it without as many PITA issues.

[shupack]

Are you in the military? If so, you can import it without as many PITA issues

Not exactly, I was in the military in england, and the Navy would ship anything, but it still had to be modified as above. the military vehicle shipping office didn't even know what needed done, all they knew was that it had to be worked on but they would ship anything, it's up to you to make sure it's legal on the other end.

[RPR]

Honestly, if you want to bring one back, the best advice is as suggested above - find an '83 110, spend the next three years playing with it, restoring it, and modifying it and then bring it back with you when it's 25 years old (you get a year without it having to meet US specs but this could be tricky). My advice would be to see what's available in Germany - there may be some ex- British military 110's of that era available. Otherwise check in the UK where a LHD model will be cheaper than a RHD anyway. Any '83 model you find is going to need a lot of TLC. Get one with a sound chassis as your top priority. Forget the engine and gearbox - you'll want to change them anyway. From my research on bringing my LR to the US, the engine will have to be 21 years old to avoid EPA testing, so you'll want a vintage V8 block. Bit thirsty and expensive for Germany but I think they have plentiful LPG and this is an easy mod.

For info on excellent reman Rover V8s (or mods to existing ones) you should speak to Steve at Lund Engines.com He is doing the engines for Team Saluki - friends of mine who rally in the Middle East (BTW, they have just signed a deal with Land Rover which will be the first official LR motorsports sponsorship that I am aware of at least for a couple of decades - LR do have a minor deal with a Bowler team for Paris - Dakar). Steve knows how to build them and his prices are good (by European standards). If you can find the legendary Stage 1 front axle (rarer than hen's teeth) slap that on the front. Put an ARB in the back. An LT85 5 speed manual (hard to find but not impossible, Ashcroft Transmissions in the UK usually have a few) and you will have a super 110. When the time comes to return to the US you can get a build date certificate from the British Motor Heritgae Center at Gaydon to certify 25 years on the chassis and 21 + years on the engine. In comes the Landy with no need for a registered importer etc. and no need to meet US specs.

If your location in Germany isn't too far from the Polish border, you will have some of the best offroading in Central Europe at your doorstep - very little regulation, lots of serious offroading (and cheaper fuel). Ex-British MoD 110 + gearbox and engine conversion and a few good mods should see you putting in about GBP 12,000 - 15,000 for a vehicle that you will be very happy with as an offroad beater. Add another GBP 4,000 - 5,000 if you want anything approaching "refinement"