Auto or Manual - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Strange Rover · 01-12-2002, 04:54 AM

I currently run a manual box (LT95) but have got a TF727 and LT230 sitting in my shed. Should I swap.

This has probably been beat around many times before but Im just a dumb ass newbie so let me hear it (or is that have it)

I know that an auto is probably easier to drive, more controlable, easier on the drive train etc etc and going down hill isnt a worry cause I use my breaks anyway.

If i did swap will I be low enough geared or does the auto require lower diff gears all else being equal. (I also know I am not low enough geared as it is but I can manage with wat I have got. (I have 4.09 diffs and 36in tyres). If I did swap the auto will I have enough power to walk up vertical ledges or will the torque convertor just stall up, go nowhere and just sit there. (with the manual I just rev it a bit harded and ride the clutch or just pop it).

What about trying to launch real hard. With the manual I can be in 2nd or third low rev it to 3 or 4 grand and side step the clutch to get a real hard launch and spin the wheels (or take off like a rocket in the rocks). Its suprising how many times I need to do this so will I be able to launch this hard with the auto or not.

Anything else that should sway my decision or should I just try it anyway.

Thanks

Sam

Jtisdale · 01-12-2002, 06:09 AM

sam I'd say your days of launching might be over with an auto

JT

NIC · 01-12-2002, 06:00 PM

why not swap it out for a toyota so you wouldnt have to ride around ormeau in your mates rover

Strange Rover · 01-12-2002, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sikfj40
why not swap it out for a toyota so you wouldnt have to ride around ormeau in your mates rover

Yea right Carnt see how a toyota is gonna help me

You hear we one that night run

It was bloody easy though. Just shows how well a dirty old farm truck (series 3 hybred on a disco) on 32s can go.

Sam

NIC · 01-13-2002, 12:03 AM

you won

keep dreamin

RUFF · 01-13-2002, 12:07 AM

Nahh its true they won

NIC · 01-13-2002, 12:16 AM

there was money involved right????????

evilfij · 01-13-2002, 11:03 AM

never used a 727tf but make sure you got the right LT230. The hi range in a 727 LT230 should be 1.003. The 727 has a rep for being indestructable. They put them behind hemis (500hp or so) in the US.

Ron

Strange Rover · 01-13-2002, 12:27 PM

Yea it was 1.003 except we swapted that into my buisness partners rangie when we swaped in a 3.9l Isuzu so I think we got a set of 1.22 (or something) left. The high range gearing dosent really worry me that much cause my rig is just getting more and more towards a trailer rig on anything over a 1 hour trip anyway. What I more concerned about is the low range gearing and wether or not I can get the same sort of torque to the wheels as with the manual riding the clutch.

Sam

v6toy4x · 01-13-2002, 12:33 PM

manual trannies can be bump started
manual trannies have far greater compression braking for downhill
manual trannies can be started in gear
typ truck boxes have a rep for being indestructible
most backyard mechanics can rebuild a manual
GO MANUAL

RockRover · 01-13-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by duane85runr/72fj40
manual trannies can be bump started

*So can an auto

manual trannies have far greater compression braking for downhill

*What are breaks for?

manual trannies can be started in gear

*So can an auto

typ truck boxes have a rep for being indestructible

*Not Rovers!

most backyard mechanics can rebuild a manual

*Not Rovers!

GO MANUAL...

Rover Addiction · 01-14-2002, 01:47 PM

Bump start an auto!! HAAH

I gotta see you try that! I've tried.. you have to be doing like 30 mph.

I've bump started my manual with the winch!

Try that with a slushbox!!

-John

Strange Rover · 01-15-2002, 01:24 PM

What about overall gearing how does my manual with a 4:1 first compare to the 727 with a 2.45:1 first (and a torque converter). With the wheels not moving can I get the same torque to the wheels with the auto as I can riding the clutch with the manual. What I am worried about is that with the auto and not enough gearing I will get stuck behind a rock and not be able to turn my wheels (like it was in high range).

Sam

road1will · 01-15-2002, 01:44 PM

i wouldnt worry about that aspect sam. the torque converter effectivle gives it almost a 5:1 first gear, and with the TC slipping, it is just like you slipping the clutch, except you dont have to worry about roasting it

you wouldnt be able to drop it into drive from high revs without damaging the transmission, though. if you arent afraid to give this up and want a lot more control and finesse, with better rock crawling ability, go with the auto. the TF727 is an awesome trans, and you can buy all sorts of cool parts for them, like a manual valvebody, probably some lower gearsets, shoftkits, etc. IMO, i would go auto.

brianbonner90 · 01-20-2002, 10:54 AM

Most of it has been covered.

I don't know why you would want to "Launch" your vehicle. I have never had any reason to do that. but with an auto you can power brake it. thats what I did drag racing 25 years ago. Just hold the brake and punch the gas. the stall converter will let it run. then let off the brake.

an auto makes easing over obstacles very easy. as you won't stall.

i don't know how much but an auto suppossedly increases gearing due to the torque converter.

auto's make wheeling very easy. Kinda takes some of the fun out of it.

brianbonner90 · 01-20-2002, 10:56 AM

Oh yeah!

i almost forgot. if you do rocks and other serious wheeling, I huighly recommend installing a tranny temp guage and a good cooler with its own FAN! Or you will cook your pump

Strange Rover · 01-21-2002, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brianbonner90
Most of it has been covered.

I don't know why you would want to "Launch" your vehicle. I have never had any reason to do that. but with an auto you can power brake it. thats what I did drag racing 25 years ago. Just hold the brake and punch the gas. the stall converter will let it run. then let off the brake.

an auto makes easing over obstacles very easy. as you won't stall.

i don't know how much but an auto suppossedly increases gearing due to the torque converter.

auto's make wheeling very easy. Kinda takes some of the fun out of it.

WTF!!!! "why you would want to "Launch" "

Next time you carnt crawl over something put your thing in 2nd low get a few revs happening and GET IT AWN!!!! You will be amazed at what you can drive but hey I guess your banned

Sam

Oh yea if you did get it awn you may have broken a few rover parts by now.

offroadr35 · 01-22-2002, 02:07 PM

<---- "got it awn" once in a 95 D90` 2nd low, got the RPMs going...POP!! any loud breaking sound from a Rover drivetrain quickly turns into the sound of $$$$ cha-ching.

-Steve

merv · 01-22-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rover Addiction
Bump start an auto!! HAAH

I gotta see you try that! I've tried.. you have to be doing like 30 mph.

I've bump started my manual with the winch! Try that with a slushbox!!

-John

Try that with a milemerker

Strange Rover · 01-23-2002, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by offroadr35
<---- "got it awn" once in a 95 D90` 2nd low, got the RPMs going...POP!! any loud breaking sound from a Rover drivetrain quickly turns into the sound of $$$$ cha-ching.

-Steve

I guess thats the down side. But its amazing what a bit of momentum will do esp. when driving uphill. There is a lot stuff we drive (loose dirt and also solid rock) uphill that just carnt be driven in first but can be in second.

Sam

200 Tdi · 01-23-2002, 06:53 PM

Sam,

Im new here, but most of the boys down in Melbourne who compete in the outback challenge/rainforest challenge use Lt95's cause it the strongest manual box LR has made.
My mates 101 has the LT95 and as it comes standard with 9.00x16 tyres I would think it would have to have lower gears.

See what you can find, with 4.7 diffs that should

John

road1will · 01-23-2002, 07:14 PM

right... why should it with 4.7s? what does that change?

and besides, he is running f/r dana 44s. he has a lot more options than 3.54, 3.8, 4.1, and 4.7. if i were him id be running 5.38s... i will be!

200 Tdi · 01-23-2002, 10:36 PM

stock 3.54 rangie diff to 4.7 = 33% increase

stock 29" rangie tyre to 39" = 34% increase

look like good numbers to me, so you wont have to trailer the truck everywhere

John

Strange Rover · 01-23-2002, 11:46 PM

the 4.7s would give me the standard overall ratio although with 39.5in tyres I think that I will trailer. So I think that I will go as low as I can although availability of the gears may be a big consideration. 4.56s I can get cheep second hand (plenty of them) and 4.88s I can get new (some mob stocks them also). If I want to get some 5.38s then they have to import them specially. If they stocked them I would get em but they have to import so if I break one im in the shiat.

Hey MeenGreen63 how strong you reckon the 5.38s are. With stock axles could the pinion break or will the axle always break first. Cause if they are week (like a rover 4.7) then I will probably go for taller gearing.

Sam

01-12-2002, 04:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
Strange Rover Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7962 Location: Australia Posts: 1,462	Auto or Manual I currently run a manual box (LT95) but have got a TF727 and LT230 sitting in my shed. Should I swap. This has probably been beat around many times before but Im just a dumb ass newbie so let me hear it (or is that have it) I know that an auto is probably easier to drive, more controlable, easier on the drive train etc etc and going down hill isnt a worry cause I use my breaks anyway. If i did swap will I be low enough geared or does the auto require lower diff gears all else being equal. (I also know I am not low enough geared as it is but I can manage with wat I have got. (I have 4.09 diffs and 36in tyres). If I did swap the auto will I have enough power to walk up vertical ledges or will the torque convertor just stall up, go nowhere and just sit there. (with the manual I just rev it a bit harded and ride the clutch or just pop it). What about trying to launch real hard. With the manual I can be in 2nd or third low rev it to 3 or 4 grand and side step the clutch to get a real hard launch and spin the wheels (or take off like a rocket in the rocks). Its suprising how many times I need to do this so will I be able to launch this hard with the auto or not. Anything else that should sway my decision or should I just try it anyway. Thanks Sam

01-13-2002, 12:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
RUFF Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8565 Location: Bris/Australia Posts: 1,661	Nahh its true they won __________________ www.outerlimits4x4.com www.werockaustralia.com SAVE THE HAMMERS Post #749 Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet Soup? If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

01-13-2002, 11:03 AM	#8 (permalink)
evilfij Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7755 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 1,953	never used a 727tf but make sure you got the right LT230. The hi range in a 727 LT230 should be 1.003. The 727 has a rep for being indestructable. They put them behind hemis (500hp or so) in the US. Ron __________________ :evil:

01-13-2002, 12:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
v6toy4x Rock God Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9154 Location: union city ca. Posts: 1,404	manual trannies can be bump started manual trannies have far greater compression braking for downhill manual trannies can be started in gear typ truck boxes have a rep for being indestructible most backyard mechanics can rebuild a manual GO MANUAL Last edited by v6toy4x; 01-13-2002 at 12:34 PM.

01-14-2002, 01:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Bump start an auto!! HAAH I gotta see you try that! I've tried.. you have to be doing like 30 mph. I've bump started my manual with the winch! Try that with a slushbox!! -John __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

01-12-2002, 06:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jtisdale Rock God Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 8122 Location: USA Posts: 1,256	sam I'd say your days of launching might be over with an auto JT

01-12-2002, 06:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
NIC Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Member # 2150 Location: australia Posts: 5,713	why not swap it out for a toyota so you wouldnt have to ride around ormeau in your mates rover

01-13-2002, 12:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
NIC Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Member # 2150 Location: australia Posts: 5,713	you won keep dreamin

01-13-2002, 12:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
NIC Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Member # 2150 Location: australia Posts: 5,713	there was money involved right????????

01-13-2002, 12:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
Strange Rover Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7962 Location: Australia Posts: 1,462	Yea it was 1.003 except we swapted that into my buisness partners rangie when we swaped in a 3.9l Isuzu so I think we got a set of 1.22 (or something) left. The high range gearing dosent really worry me that much cause my rig is just getting more and more towards a trailer rig on anything over a 1 hour trip anyway. What I more concerned about is the low range gearing and wether or not I can get the same sort of torque to the wheels as with the manual riding the clutch. Sam

01-15-2002, 01:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
Strange Rover Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7962 Location: Australia Posts: 1,462	What about overall gearing how does my manual with a 4:1 first compare to the 727 with a 2.45:1 first (and a torque converter). With the wheels not moving can I get the same torque to the wheels with the auto as I can riding the clutch with the manual. What I am worried about is that with the auto and not enough gearing I will get stuck behind a rock and not be able to turn my wheels (like it was in high range). Sam

01-15-2002, 01:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
road1will Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8871 Location: Cleveland Tennessee Posts: 3,344	i wouldnt worry about that aspect sam. the torque converter effectivle gives it almost a 5:1 first gear, and with the TC slipping, it is just like you slipping the clutch, except you dont have to worry about roasting it you wouldnt be able to drop it into drive from high revs without damaging the transmission, though. if you arent afraid to give this up and want a lot more control and finesse, with better rock crawling ability, go with the auto. the TF727 is an awesome trans, and you can buy all sorts of cool parts for them, like a manual valvebody, probably some lower gearsets, shoftkits, etc. IMO, i would go auto.

01-20-2002, 10:54 AM	#15 (permalink)
brianbonner90 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9329 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 30	Most of it has been covered. I don't know why you would want to "Launch" your vehicle. I have never had any reason to do that. but with an auto you can power brake it. thats what I did drag racing 25 years ago. Just hold the brake and punch the gas. the stall converter will let it run. then let off the brake. an auto makes easing over obstacles very easy. as you won't stall. i don't know how much but an auto suppossedly increases gearing due to the torque converter. auto's make wheeling very easy. Kinda takes some of the fun out of it. __________________ Thanks Brian http://www.lubedealer.com/brianbonner Http://www.circle-b.com

01-20-2002, 10:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
brianbonner90 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9329 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 30	Oh yeah! i almost forgot. if you do rocks and other serious wheeling, I huighly recommend installing a tranny temp guage and a good cooler with its own FAN! Or you will cook your pump __________________ Thanks Brian http://www.lubedealer.com/brianbonner Http://www.circle-b.com

01-22-2002, 02:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
offroadr35 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8843 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,838	<---- "got it awn" once in a 95 D90` 2nd low, got the RPMs going...POP!! any loud breaking sound from a Rover drivetrain quickly turns into the sound of $$$$ cha-ching. -Steve

01-23-2002, 06:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
200 Tdi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9432 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 23	Sam, Im new here, but most of the boys down in Melbourne who compete in the outback challenge/rainforest challenge use Lt95's cause it the strongest manual box LR has made. My mates 101 has the LT95 and as it comes standard with 9.00x16 tyres I would think it would have to have lower gears. See what you can find, with 4.7 diffs that should John

01-23-2002, 07:14 PM	#22 (permalink)
road1will Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8871 Location: Cleveland Tennessee Posts: 3,344	right... why should it with 4.7s? what does that change? and besides, he is running f/r dana 44s. he has a lot more options than 3.54, 3.8, 4.1, and 4.7. if i were him id be running 5.38s... i will be!

01-23-2002, 10:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
200 Tdi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9432 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 23	stock 3.54 rangie diff to 4.7 = 33% increase stock 29" rangie tyre to 39" = 34% increase look like good numbers to me, so you wont have to trailer the truck everywhere John

01-23-2002, 11:46 PM	#24 (permalink)
Strange Rover Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7962 Location: Australia Posts: 1,462	the 4.7s would give me the standard overall ratio although with 39.5in tyres I think that I will trailer. So I think that I will go as low as I can although availability of the gears may be a big consideration. 4.56s I can get cheep second hand (plenty of them) and 4.88s I can get new (some mob stocks them also). If I want to get some 5.38s then they have to import them specially. If they stocked them I would get em but they have to import so if I break one im in the shiat. Hey MeenGreen63 how strong you reckon the 5.38s are. With stock axles could the pinion break or will the axle always break first. Cause if they are week (like a rover 4.7) then I will probably go for taller gearing. Sam

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