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Old 01-14-2002, 12:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Super cvs

Does anyone have any proof, or quasi proof that "1 ton cvs" are any stronger than the run of the mill early RR cvs? The way I see it they are the same just the "1 ton" have an intergral stub shaft (i think).

Anyone be interested in having the super birfield guy do up some rover cvs?

Ron
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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you still running the POS 32spline stockers?

Ron
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Why not pop some early RR cvs in there and see how they last?

I picked up a set for $50

I tried to tell drew the same thing and he just mentioned something about a D60

I was actually thinking about sending the super birfield guy rover cvs to harden and whatnot like he does with the toys?

I don't think we would be gaining much with regular toy birfields, but they seem to do well with the super birfileds.

And just because they are cheap to replace is not enough as we would have to buy the inners too.

Ron
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Old 01-14-2002, 07:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The guys on the Toy BBS don't seem to think the super birfs or Marfields or any other version of a strenghtened birf is as strong as claimed. The're still breakin em, course they like 38.5s and all we want is for them to hold up under 35-37s. Being able to pick one up cheaper at Pep Boys is the dealeo though!

JT

Ron let us know what you find out if you contact this guy.
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I talked to the guy already and he said he'd see what he can do with a rover CV if I send him one. He said it would be easiest if he had a swivel ball to look at as well. I was thinking about sending him an axle end with the swivel ball and an old CV to look at and then a new one to modify.

He basically heat/cryo treats them to increase strength. On the toyota ones, he also welds on an extra ring to keep from exploding the bell, but I'm not sure that'll help us since the cage or star breaks first.

Anybody wanna donate the test stuff?

I have an extra laying around, but no time to take it apart and send it..


-John
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i have a spare set of '88 range rover CVs in the garage... wonder what he would charge to strengthen them?
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I was actually gonna call the guy today and ask the exact same thing. Guess you beat me to it. If I can locate a good set of CVs for a decent price I'll donate them.

-Jon
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Old 01-14-2002, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I can send him my spare 89 cvs.

just tell me where to ship them.

evilfij(at) yahoo.com

Ron
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Old 01-15-2002, 12:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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CV joint compare Oh

Well I have a "GBR" CV joint that I got from a whole front axle assembly which was to include GBR extremeduty front axles and 23 spline CV's. Both of the CV's are broke(I new this before i bought it) one grenaded and he sent it back to Bill for him to see the other that I have has a crack.
I have 3 different CV's:
The GBR extreme duty(23 spline)
D90 non ABS ring(32 spline)
D90/disco/rangie with ABS ring.(32 spline)
The two non GBR CV's are exactly the same except that the ring is cut or machined for the teeth for the ABS CV. The non ABS CV has the same raised section as the ABS CV only it is solid instead of being splined.
The maximum diameter of the CV bell on:
the GBR CV is 3.625 inches
non ABS CV is 3.657 inches this is measured on the section where the ABS spline would be.
The inner cage max diameter:
GBR 23 spline 2.733
32 spline 2.666
inner star max diameter:
GBR 23 spline 2.396 inches
32 spline 2.340 inches
outer axle diameter for:
23 spline is 1.20 inches
32 spline is 1.05 inches
the outer axle section is 1 inch longer on the GBR CV.
ball bearings measure to be the same exact size.
All measurements taken with a set of vernier calipers so there is a potential for error

MY thoughts(open for debate)
The bell of the non ABS CV seems as though it should be the strongest. It has a slightly larger OD and the inner ID is also slightly smaller. With these two differences in size the non ABS CV is potentially .099 inches thicker at it's thinnest point.

The star for the 23 spline is .045 inches thinner when measuring the difference between the maximum ID and min OD compared to the 32 spline star; but the 23 spline star is .04 inches longer.
I would consider these to be comparable or the 23 spline being slightly stronger due to greater overall diameter and length.

inner axle strength of coarse goes to the larger 23 spline 1.20 diameter axle.

CV joint breaks I've seen.
23 spline CV outer bell failure caused from shock load
inner axle salvagable(mcnamarra)
inner star salvagable
cage broken.(GBR)

23 spline CV outer bell crack
inner axle salvagable
inner star salavagable
inner cage salvagable(GBR)

32 spline NON ABS failure cause by extreme shock load
bell salvagable
inner axle shattered.
star cracked
cage salvagable

32 spline ABS CV
bell salvagable
cracked inner star
stripped inner axle spline
cage salvagable
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Old 01-15-2002, 12:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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So what you are saying teabag is they are all crap.



I think everyone else here would tend to agree, but there is always (false?) hope.

Ron
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Old 01-15-2002, 07:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 01-15-2002, 08:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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GREAT POST Teabag! Man that's the empirical information I love to hear. Maybe (if you haven't already) post that info on the 90 list...I've been squakin' about REAL DATA to GBR for a while now, and all I get is "it's much stronger". When I looked at the pictures of a side-by-side comparison, I just couldn't see where all the "extreme duty" was coming from. Well from what I see from your post it's not (or at least marginally) stronger. When your faced with plunking down $1.7k (retail) for a pair of complete Rover axles, it's nice to see exactly what your getting into.

Good job!

--D
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Old 01-16-2002, 04:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Gimme a few more runs to sort out some stuff and I'll have better info. Also, I'm thinking about testing out the ECR set-up on my D90 and seeing if it will hold up to the 37s.. They claim it will. I wish they would do a warrantee or something. then, I'd definitely buy!!!

-John
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Old 01-16-2002, 05:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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John- if im not mistaken, the head mechanic at ECR (Chris Komar) has broken several "1 Ton" CVs in his 300Tdi powered f/r air lockered, 35" swampered 88" Series truck. IMO the only solution to Land Rover CVs is American U Joints! I have no understanding of your "standardized spares" idea. why would you need any dana 60 spares?
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Old 01-20-2002, 11:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Can't we just crio treat them ourselves? I mean Allan Dobbs does it to everything. Maybe we can send them to him?
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Old 01-20-2002, 06:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Received this the other day...

"We make a Hardened Rover Drive Flange, to connect the Hubs to the 30 Spline CV Axles, you have to fit the Toyota Bronze Bush in the Rear of the Stub Axles.
We sell the Drive Flanges for $150.00 each ex-Works.
If you send us your Stubs, we will convert them for $120.00 each Ex-Works.
Regards,
Jeff McNamara"


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Old 01-21-2002, 11:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ron-
You send those CVs to Bobby Long yet? Sounds like he's charging the toy guys ~115 bucks to heat treat inners and outer and weld ring on(per side).

John-How many spares you bringin to Las Cruces?

JT
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Old 01-22-2002, 03:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I wonder if he would do the Rover CVs, and if so, wonder if he'd give the same warranty.

-Steve
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