Hydro Assist Steering - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Rover Addiction · 01-30-2002, 02:35 PM

Ok guys,
Here's another mod I'm working on: Hydro assist steering.

I already got the left side swivel housing from a RHD Defender that has the two arms on it (one in the rear for the tie-rod and one in front for the drag link from the RHD steering box.

Now I want to put a ram in front of the axle to push this thing. Anyone have any idea how I can make this work with the existing steering box and power steering pump?

I'm thinking there has to be a way to get an output from the box similar to what some people are doing on the Saginaw boxes. Then, all I'd need to do is find a stronger pump. Suggestions?

-j

Rover Addiction · 01-30-2002, 02:37 PM

Doug,
You mentioned something about having found a better pump that will fit. Got any details?

-j

western110 · 01-30-2002, 10:04 PM

Have a look at this, I've been thinking it might work for some time now.

http://www.ticonsole.nl/

Check the power steering kit out. It is for series Rovers but if it works like I think it does it should also add additional boost to the Coil Rover steering.

Andrew

Strange Rover · 01-31-2002, 03:40 AM

Shouldnt be too hard to do. All you need to do is to tap into the ps box to the two pressure feeds. The ps box does have a ram in it that forces a rack back and forth. One side of the ram is pressured by the external line on the outside of the box so this is v.easy to tap into. The other side of the ram is forced by pressure inside the entire ps box. So you just need to find a place on the ps box to tap intp this pressure feed which wont break the box in half.

So the external feed is easy and for the internal feed just drill and tap a hole in the casing and let me know how it goes because I dont think I will be far behind you.n

Sam

Jtisdale · 01-31-2002, 05:26 AM

John-

Is this for your 90 or 110...or both?

Johnathan

Rover Addiction · 01-31-2002, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jtisdale
John-

Is this for your 90 or 110...or both?

Johnathan

I'm starting with the D90 since it really needs the extra boost steering and then I'll look into doing the same thing (mirror image) on the D110 if it works out. It will be easier on the D90 since the pumpkin is on the right side of the axle and that leaves space on the left side for the hydraulic cylinder. At least, that's the way it looks right now. I'll have a further look at how everything fits under there when I get a chance.

-John

RockRover · 01-31-2002, 09:06 AM

John, give me a call.

--D

Billb · 01-31-2002, 10:13 AM

John - long time no talk.

Try this site for alternate ZF pumps. I'm sure you can get them anywhere without actually having to buy it from this place in the UK.

Bill

Billb · 01-31-2002, 10:14 AM

Hmmm, didn't take the URL. Lets try again

http://www.4x4winches.com/zf.html

Jason M · 01-31-2002, 12:16 PM

Talk to Lakerat on ths board he owns west texas off road and can drill and tap any box for ram assist. Good quality work!!!

Rover Addiction · 01-31-2002, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billb
Hmmm, didn't take the URL. Lets try again

http://www.4x4winches.com/zf.html

Hey Bill!! Nice to hear from you again..

I owe you a check for the dues... Damn, things are slipping away from me!

I'll check that link out..

-John

Rover Addiction · 01-31-2002, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason M
Talk to Lakerat on ths board he owns west texas off road and can drill and tap any box for ram assist. Good quality work!!!

I'll look into it! Thanks!!!

Rover Addiction · 02-04-2002, 04:00 PM

Ok, another possibility.. I was playin around under my D90 and got to thinking: Why not just replace the steering dampner with a hydraulic ram?

I realize that means that drag link has to take loads of stress and the ball ends may not take it. What do you think?

-John

RockRover · 02-04-2002, 06:35 PM

Should be fine with the proper reinforcements...However, if the tire size is up there then I'd worry about the knuckle/ball tie-rod intersection strength. Pretty wimpy components stock actually...Especially when your tossing about 7-10K lbs at it via the ram.

--D

Rover Addiction · 02-05-2002, 08:10 AM

Hmm.. well that's where I was thinking the weak point is too. I'm wondering if they can be beefed in order to make them hold up to the ram. It would be a helluva lot easier to throw a ram into that space and have it up, out of the way, protected, and not obstructing suspension movement.

If I put it on the front of the axle, I really have to watch the clearance under the pitman arm, the front skid plate, and the draglink. And to top it off, it's not protected and I'll be bashing it on the rocks. Not a good thing in my book.

-John

RockRover · 02-05-2002, 08:42 AM

Good point's on the clearance issue...Yea'. go for it in the stabilizer space. What do you have to loose? Just buy a little 1/4" plate and start weldin'. I think one or two gussets would be plenty...And mayby a little strap on the knuckel. Presto!

--D

Rover Addiction · 02-05-2002, 08:47 AM

Just seems like an ideal place for a ram. I've already got the RoverTym Stainless drag link which is pretty damn strong. I think what I'll have to do is fab up a new link from the steering box to the drag link that will accept the ram and be stronger. Then look for stronger ball ends.

When I do this I'll make sure to carry more spares ( I already carry spare tie-rod, ball ends, and drag link) and then I'll have my underhood welder up and running so I should be able to fix it on the trail.

Sound like a plan?

Only other thing is that this will put a whole lot more stress on the panhard rod. I may have to strengthen that. Or once that factor is added in, maybe the ram on the axle housing isn't such a bad idea...

I dunno. Gonna hafta get the D110 running right and then I can wheel that while I tear into the front of the D90. You know I can't stand a weekend without wheeling..

-John

RockRover · 02-05-2002, 09:11 AM

Yea, you nailed it...The pan-hard will be taking a ton of stress with the ram...However, I wouldn't think that the rod strenght would be such an issue, as would be the box/pan-hard support. It looks pretty beefy, but not as butch as most. I dunno'. Try it, carry a spare support arm, and go for it. That's what I'll do, Unless I can't use it at all once I move the axle forward. In that case I'll make a mount/support a lot like this:

--D

Rover Addiction · 02-05-2002, 09:40 AM

I'll hafta look into that. More ideas for the never ending project list.

I did figure out how to tighten up the LR steering boxes.

Apparently, there is a set-screw with a lock nut on it on top of the box and by tightening this, play can removed from the box. Woo Hoo!! Don't need a new box for the D110. I'll hafta try that and see what happens..

-j

evilfij · 02-05-2002, 12:20 PM

Allen wrench and a normal wrench and you can tighten the box in under 1 minute. Carefull not to make it too tight and have it bind.

Also check wear in the ball joints and steering u joints.

If for some reason you need a new box meridian is the way to go. If you could live with a week of down time I am sure they could do the RHD one on the 110.

Ron

Rover Addiction · 02-05-2002, 03:06 PM

yup, that's what I'm gonna do. I already know the play is in the box and there are no other problems that I can find. (Easy Merv! Down boy, down boy!)

Thanks.

-John

01-30-2002, 02:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Hydro Assist Steering Ok guys, Here's another mod I'm working on: Hydro assist steering. I already got the left side swivel housing from a RHD Defender that has the two arms on it (one in the rear for the tie-rod and one in front for the drag link from the RHD steering box. Now I want to put a ram in front of the axle to push this thing. Anyone have any idea how I can make this work with the existing steering box and power steering pump? I'm thinking there has to be a way to get an output from the box similar to what some people are doing on the Saginaw boxes. Then, all I'd need to do is find a stronger pump. Suggestions? -j __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

01-30-2002, 02:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Doug, You mentioned something about having found a better pump that will fit. Got any details? -j __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

01-31-2002, 03:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Strange Rover Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7962 Location: Australia Posts: 1,462	Shouldnt be too hard to do. All you need to do is to tap into the ps box to the two pressure feeds. The ps box does have a ram in it that forces a rack back and forth. One side of the ram is pressured by the external line on the outside of the box so this is v.easy to tap into. The other side of the ram is forced by pressure inside the entire ps box. So you just need to find a place on the ps box to tap intp this pressure feed which wont break the box in half. So the external feed is easy and for the internal feed just drill and tap a hole in the casing and let me know how it goes because I dont think I will be far behind you.n Sam __________________ Land Rover SIIa, 302W, NP435, NP205, MOG404s, 42in Swamper TSLs, 112in WB "An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less until one day they know absolutely everything about nothing." Outerlimits4x4.com - home of aussie rock crawling.

01-31-2002, 09:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
RockRover Rock God Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4101 Location: Santa Fe Posts: 2,232	John, give me a call. --D __________________ Hendrix 'X' Chassis #006 http://www.hunt4steve.com/Doug.html

01-31-2002, 10:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
Billb Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9331 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 11	Alternate ZF pumps John - long time no talk. Try this site for alternate ZF pumps. I'm sure you can get them anywhere without actually having to buy it from this place in the UK. Bill

01-30-2002, 10:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
western110 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9615 Location: Calgary Posts: 94	Have a look at this, I've been thinking it might work for some time now. http://www.ticonsole.nl/ Check the power steering kit out. It is for series Rovers but if it works like I think it does it should also add additional boost to the Coil Rover steering. Andrew

01-31-2002, 05:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jtisdale Rock God Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 8122 Location: USA Posts: 1,256	John- Is this for your 90 or 110...or both? Johnathan

01-31-2002, 10:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Billb Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9331 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 11	Hmmm, didn't take the URL. Lets try again http://www.4x4winches.com/zf.html

01-31-2002, 12:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jason M Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5286 Location: Vegas Posts: 9,827	Talk to Lakerat on ths board he owns west texas off road and can drill and tap any box for ram assist. Good quality work!!! __________________ DEAR MADAM: THANK YOU FOR YOUR RECENT ORDER FROM OUR SEX TOYS WEBSITE. YOU'VE REQUESTED THE LARGE RED VIBRATOR AS FEATURED ON OUR WALL DISPLAY. PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER ITEM. THAT'S OUR FIRE EXTINGUISHER

02-04-2002, 04:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Ok, another possibility.. I was playin around under my D90 and got to thinking: Why not just replace the steering dampner with a hydraulic ram? I realize that means that drag link has to take loads of stress and the ball ends may not take it. What do you think? -John __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

02-04-2002, 06:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
RockRover Rock God Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4101 Location: Santa Fe Posts: 2,232	Should be fine with the proper reinforcements...However, if the tire size is up there then I'd worry about the knuckle/ball tie-rod intersection strength. Pretty wimpy components stock actually...Especially when your tossing about 7-10K lbs at it via the ram. --D __________________ Hendrix 'X' Chassis #006 http://www.hunt4steve.com/Doug.html

02-05-2002, 08:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Hmm.. well that's where I was thinking the weak point is too. I'm wondering if they can be beefed in order to make them hold up to the ram. It would be a helluva lot easier to throw a ram into that space and have it up, out of the way, protected, and not obstructing suspension movement. If I put it on the front of the axle, I really have to watch the clearance under the pitman arm, the front skid plate, and the draglink. And to top it off, it's not protected and I'll be bashing it on the rocks. Not a good thing in my book. -John __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

02-05-2002, 08:42 AM	#16 (permalink)
RockRover Rock God Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4101 Location: Santa Fe Posts: 2,232	Good point's on the clearance issue...Yea'. go for it in the stabilizer space. What do you have to loose? Just buy a little 1/4" plate and start weldin'. I think one or two gussets would be plenty...And mayby a little strap on the knuckel. Presto! --D __________________ Hendrix 'X' Chassis #006 http://www.hunt4steve.com/Doug.html

02-05-2002, 08:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	Just seems like an ideal place for a ram. I've already got the RoverTym Stainless drag link which is pretty damn strong. I think what I'll have to do is fab up a new link from the steering box to the drag link that will accept the ram and be stronger. Then look for stronger ball ends. When I do this I'll make sure to carry more spares ( I already carry spare tie-rod, ball ends, and drag link) and then I'll have my underhood welder up and running so I should be able to fix it on the trail. Sound like a plan? Only other thing is that this will put a whole lot more stress on the panhard rod. I may have to strengthen that. Or once that factor is added in, maybe the ram on the axle housing isn't such a bad idea... I dunno. Gonna hafta get the D110 running right and then I can wheel that while I tear into the front of the D90. You know I can't stand a weekend without wheeling.. -John __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

02-05-2002, 09:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
RockRover Rock God Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4101 Location: Santa Fe Posts: 2,232	Yea, you nailed it...The pan-hard will be taking a ton of stress with the ram...However, I wouldn't think that the rod strenght would be such an issue, as would be the box/pan-hard support. It looks pretty beefy, but not as butch as most. I dunno'. Try it, carry a spare support arm, and go for it. That's what I'll do, Unless I can't use it at all once I move the axle forward. In that case I'll make a mount/support a lot like this: --D Attached Images __________________ Hendrix 'X' Chassis #006 http://www.hunt4steve.com/Doug.html

02-05-2002, 09:40 AM	#19 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	I'll hafta look into that. More ideas for the never ending project list. I did figure out how to tighten up the LR steering boxes. Apparently, there is a set-screw with a lock nut on it on top of the box and by tightening this, play can removed from the box. Woo Hoo!! Don't need a new box for the D110. I'll hafta try that and see what happens.. -j __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

02-05-2002, 12:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
evilfij Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7755 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 1,955	Allen wrench and a normal wrench and you can tighten the box in under 1 minute. Carefull not to make it too tight and have it bind. Also check wear in the ball joints and steering u joints. If for some reason you need a new box meridian is the way to go. If you could live with a week of down time I am sure they could do the RHD one on the 110. Ron __________________ :evil:

02-05-2002, 03:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
Rover Addiction Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4749 Location: Erie, CO Posts: 975	yup, that's what I'm gonna do. I already know the play is in the box and there are no other problems that I can find. (Easy Merv! Down boy, down boy!) Thanks. -John __________________ "All the parts falling off this truck are of the finest british craftsmanship."

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