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Old 11-30-2004, 03:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Spring-over conversion has begun.

I'm past the point of no return, having cut off the front frame horns this morning. By this weekend I'll have the front framework complete and can then slip the Dana 60 under the truck to get a feel for how the pinion angle and kingpin angles will need to be changed. I'm using some 88 rear springs, the lighter duty version that still have some life in them, so it'll be interesting to see how the truck sits after I get the winch reinstalled. I'm hoping that I get a decent ride height with them, otherwise I'll be having Alcan make custom springs. I want to end up with a ride height very close to what it was with new parabolics installed.

I know that there has been some interest in spring-overs on the board in the past so I'll post up when I get some pictures loaded.

Lonn
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Old 11-30-2004, 04:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Spring Over

I think you will be pleased with the end result. I think it will be hard to get your ride height down to an inch of lift without a negative arch to the springs . . .

-Ike

PS: how well does your truck cool with that high mounted 8274 in front of the relatively small SIIA grill?
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsprung
I think you will be pleased with the end result. I think it will be hard to get your ride height down to an inch of lift without a negative arch to the springs . . .

-Ike

PS: how well does your truck cool with that high mounted 8274 in front of the relatively small SIIA grill?
Just curious, as I have always been a coiler, but what length and with are the series springs? 48" x 2 or 2.5? Seriously, I have an idea if they are.

j
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leafsprung
how well does your truck cool with that high mounted 8274 in front of the relatively small SIIA grill?
I'm running a Ron Davis Racing aluminum crossflow radiator that is fully shrouded and have no trouble on the trail. It'll occasionally hit 230F but I find that if I engage the fast-idle selenoid it drops pretty quicky.
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Lonn, I'm getting ready to do the same thing. Probably start after Christmas. I don't have a DANA 60 front though. I'd love to see some pics. What gearing are you using in the diffs?

Dan
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Lonn,
can't wait to see the results. Good luck with it.
Pete
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Old 12-06-2004, 10:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redrangie
Just curious, as I have always been a coiler, but what length and with are the series springs? 48" x 2 or 2.5? Seriously, I have an idea if they are.
Just noticed that nobody has answered you. The spring is about 48 inches when compressed and is 2 1/2" wide. What do you have in mind?
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Old 12-06-2004, 10:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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SOA Mockup

This photo is after extending the frame using 3x4x1/8 tube. The extension will be finished with 1/8 inch plate as original. The 2x4 is approximating the final position of the rear of the springs after the civvy shackles are installed. I'm using the military front mounting position. The spring in the photo is installed without the bottom two leaves. I'll probably have to use the full spring pack to compensate for the weight of the 8274. As it is now it lifts the truck two inches over the military parabolic height. I can live with that. I extended the front mounts by 7 inches to move the axle forward by 1 inch, so I'm now a 110. It was the only way to run 37s without interferring with the front rollcage outriggers. With the addition of cutting brakes I should still get around in the tight spots just as well as I ever did.



I'll post up a link to the in-process photos when I finally get them all up.
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Old 12-06-2004, 03:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NEVROVR
Just noticed that nobody has answered you. The spring is about 48 inches when compressed and is 2 1/2" wide. What do you have in mind?

I found that IH front pickup springs are 48" no weight, and are 2.5 width. 1 plus four height. They were spring over stock, and give about 4~5 inches arch from the locator pin to the eye when on my 1 ton IH, which has about 1.5k on the front axle.

Oh, and they are military wrap, and 30.00 each at a yard I know. Just fyi
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Old 12-06-2004, 06:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redrangie
I found that IH front pickup springs are 48" no weight, and are 2.5 width. 1 plus four height. They were spring over stock, and give about 4~5 inches arch from the locator pin to the eye when on my 1 ton IH, which has about 1.5k on the front axle.

Oh, and they are military wrap, and 30.00 each at a yard I know. Just fyi.
That's good to know. In my case I'm looking for the spring to sit nearly flat when loaded so I don't end up with one of those goofy looking lifted trucks that you need a ladder to get into and that get tippy on anything more than the crown in the road. Gawd I hate those trucks.

Lonn
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Looking good, can't wait to see the next pics.
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Old 12-07-2004, 01:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Just a few photos to detail the process I used to extend the frame horns. It's still not finished, as a wrap of 1/8" plate will be added.







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Old 12-12-2004, 04:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm interested in seeing how the Dana 60 fits. I'm getting started on similar mod but the problem I have is I've got full width axles. The right side spring mount is right on the side of the pumpkin. How are you handling that? Are you narrowing the axle by just cutting down the long side a bit so you don't have to shift the springs to the outside of the frame?

Dan
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RoverDan
I'm interested in seeing how the Dana 60 fits. How are you handling that? Are you narrowing the axle by just cutting down the long side a bit so you don't have to shift the springs to the outside of the frame?
I'm machining the spring pad to rotate the pinion up and shortening both sides. The WMS to WMS will be 1 inch wider than stock due to the limitation of shortening the short side but with the rear disk conversion on the Salisbury it will be a perfect match.

If you only cut down the long side you'd have to nearly center the pumpkin to keep the track width close to stock. I didn't want the clearance issues with a centered pumpkin. By using the cast-in spring perch the pinion and LT230T align nearly perfectly on my rig and the driveline doesn't interfere with the sump.

Lonn
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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1/8th inch plating

These are the finish steps of the frame extension. In the first two photos you can see the bottom strap tacked in place.




And with the plate on the sides I'm all but finished. I know my welds may look like crap but I've never had one fail. Knock on wood...
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Old 12-12-2004, 10:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Looks really good but arn't you worried about the hangers being that far foreword and hanging so low?
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Looking good Lonn.

As to hanger location, with a leaf the hanger isn't low/hi. Where ever it is, the spring attaches. By 'lowering' the hanger you lift the vehicle.
With the stock short front leafs and 36" tires you cant hardly see the front hangers. Almost 90* approach angle with out the bumper.
The longer front springs do mean you need to put the perches further out front, but the benifits will far outway any problems.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVROVR
I'm machining the spring pad to rotate the pinion up and shortening both sides. The WMS to WMS will be 1 inch wider than stock due to the limitation of shortening the short side but with the rear disk conversion on the Salisbury it will be a perfect match.
Lonn
That makes sense. I'm planning on just shortening the long side a bit and going with a wider track. I'm trying to avoid having to have too many custom parts made.

Dan
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Old 12-13-2004, 07:17 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Looks really good but arn't you worried about the hangers being that far foreword and hanging so low?
The hanger-to-ground measurement hasn't changed, it's only been pushed forward. The military hanger does drop 1 1/2" below the civilian height but I need to use the lower mounting hole to help rotate the pinion up. With a spring-over the springs are much higher relative to the axle tube so it won't be an issue. Even with flat springs I'll get at least a 2" chassis lift so my approach angle will be about the same. It's the departure angle us 109ers have to be concerned about. If I didn't have such comfy sleeping arrangements in the back of my truck I'd coil the rear and bob the tail. Never gonna happen. I like my 109, uh, I mean 110.
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Old 12-14-2004, 07:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's the departure angle us 109ers have to be concerned about. If I didn't have such comfy sleeping arrangements in the back of my truck I'd coil the rear and bob the tail. Never gonna happen. I like my 109, uh, I mean 110.
I know what you mean there but I'm bobbing the tail on my 109 anyway. I'm planning on keeping the wheel base but getting rid of the rear overhang.

Dan
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Old 12-15-2004, 12:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I know what you mean there but I'm bobbing the tail on my 109 anyway. I'm planning on keeping the wheel base but getting rid of the rear overhang.

Dan
I have similar thoughts. I am going to be stretching my 88. I am looking at a 104-106WB. Cut down a 109 tub and a custom fame.
I sleep in the 88 already so any extra is all good.
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Old 12-15-2004, 03:58 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I know of someone who found a creative way of sleeping in a D90. He lays a cot front to back from the dash over the passenger seat, which gets folded down, and on to the back of the tub.

Dan
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Old 12-15-2004, 01:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You can gain an additional 5 or more degrees of departure angle on a 109 without losing rear tub length by cutting and rewelding the rear crossmember back on at an angle of 45 degrees from vertical.
Bill.
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Old 12-15-2004, 01:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You can gain an additional 5 or more degrees of departure angle on a 109 without losing rear tub length by cutting and rewelding the rear crossmember back on at an angle of 45 degrees from vertical.
Bill.
That's true, I never thought about that. The angled cross member could have other benefits too.

Dan
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You can gain an additional 5 or more degrees of departure angle on a 109 without losing rear tub length by cutting and rewelding the rear crossmember back on at an angle of 45 degrees from vertical.
Bill.
Good idea but not if you have your fuel tank there! that where mine is! I would have to relocate the tank to the interior of the vehicle or make it very small.... also a rear winch will have to be mounted higher or elsewhere.

Now back to the post, i am planning the a similar project but i will stop at fitting the rear springs to the front, soa is not a viable option for me. I am planning of using rear paras in the front and maybe mount a set of revolver shakles...... but that will come at a later stage, i will make longer shock mounts up into the mudgaurds or fenders to use all the available travel the rear springs will provide.

I am following this post with great interest......

Keep up the good work.

Grem
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