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Old 02-20-2002, 08:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone running a atlas or a dana 300 with a rover transmission?

Curious if anyone is running an atlas t-case, or the equivalent dana 300 with a twin stick and 4:1 low kit? I have been thinking about this mod so that I can drop my dana 60 in the rear and center up the driveshaft to match the axle.

Adam Way
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Old 02-20-2002, 08:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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go for it, why the fawk not??? you will just need to get an adapter made. no biggie, mr. Timm is only a phone call away

IMO this setup would kick some serious ass in your rig. i would go atlas 4.3:1 if i had the $$$, but if you wantt to do it for less go D300, it will still be bitchen and original as all hell.

do it!!!

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Old 02-20-2002, 12:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Just me a rough basterd and bolt the thing up on an angle and see how it goes. It supprised the hell out of me.

Sam
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Old 02-20-2002, 01:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Okay...The first thing that Timm will tell you is that your nutz converting to a D300, and sorta' nutz if your converting to an Atlas...In his opinion, the LT230 is the ONLY redeeming feature of the LR drive train! He's seen both appart and feels that the LT230 is the stronger of the two. I believe him when he comments on strength issues and parts.

Now an option I considered (and still do) is mating a Torque Flight tranny to the rover block. The TF will mate to a 300 or Atlas...Everything's cool....I think Sam's got an adapter laying around too!

I'm gonna' stick with the LT230 (part-time) and live with the compound angles for now...If it turns out that I run into serious vibration issues, then I'll cut down the axle. 6.5" compound on a 33" run driveshaft and approx 12deg rise the compound angel is juuuuussst in there with u-joints (for a under 60 mph rig).

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Old 02-20-2002, 04:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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hey Doug, the Torqueflite auto came from the factory in a ton of range rovers before 1986. all the ones that were autos were TF727. dunno if this bolted to the LT230 or not, but it bolts onto the rover motor.

why are you so bent on keeping the rover V8 anyways, doug?
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Old 02-20-2002, 06:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 9-Volt
hey Doug, the Torqueflite auto came from the factory in a ton of range rovers before 1986. all the ones that were autos were TF727. dunno if this bolted to the LT230 or not, but it bolts onto the rover motor.

why are you so bent on keeping the rover V8 anyways, doug?
Yup, I got a factory TF727 and LT230 combo not many of em around but I somehow fell over one. I think that I will run this one day.

Sam
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Old 02-20-2002, 07:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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grey market RRs 83-85 will have the TF727 if they are auto

and also will have the LT230 with 1.003 high range

I missed one a while back

Ron
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 9-Volt
hey Doug, the Torqueflite auto came from the factory in a ton of range rovers before 1986. all the ones that were autos were TF727. dunno if this bolted to the LT230 or not, but it bolts onto the rover motor.

why are you so bent on keeping the rover V8 anyways, doug?
Yup...I know.

I'm not really bent on keeping the 3.9, but I do like it for it's compact and light weight"ness". Awesome ballance in the rocks.

The main issue is cost. I've got my eye on the GM Ram-Jet 350...350hp right out of the box...The 4.5K price tag is...Well...Steep. However if my Rover block ever goes south.

O'yea...Doesn't the 727 requre a adapter to the rover 215?

--D
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Why not a KluneV? Hell if we're gonna hack the shit out of stuff why not stick in a Klune V between the Tranny and T case? Instant 4:1 ratio.

Ali
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by alia176
Why not a KluneV? Hell if we're gonna hack the shit out of stuff why not stick in a Klune V between the Tranny and T case? Instant 4:1 ratio.

Ali
do you know how much they cost, cause i do
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Old 02-21-2002, 12:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Let's see they cost $1800 plus adapter plate. Isn't this comparable to an Atlas plus all the fix'ns? Julie at Klune V said that they don't have any plans on making up any adapter plate for LRs yet. But if enough people are asking for them then they'll look into it. Funny thing is the higher ups there drive LRs!

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Old 02-21-2002, 01:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Why go dana 300

Pretty sure the street price for klune Vs is $1100.

It would be nice to get rid of the stock T-case, remember the discos and RR do not have the same final gear ratio as the bad ass D90s (a little envious)!

The main reason that there is interest in these mods is the twin stick option from currie ($125ish) or it comes standard on the Atlas (e.g. one advantage is cutting brakes. Very simple to do on dana 60s with out vehicle).

This also centers up the driveshaft so that we can get away from running the stock Land Rover axles in the rear. It is BONE SIMPLE to replace the stock rear axle. You can also get rid of that stupid center link that rover uses. I like the idea of getting a dana 60 like mine, thorwing a spool in it for $150 and beating the hell out of it. They come with 30 spline axles that are plenty tuff for my vehicle, and are worthy of upgrading. I do not see the Jeep people throw money away at mildly stronger components that are way overpriced. I would like to see a new trend of Rover people putting in aftermarket mods rather than supoorting those who rip us off (e.g. GBR). Just my opinion.

Finally you can run 4:10 gears (stronger than 4:70s) and be compatable to switch to Dana products one at a time. YOu would have great highway gearing, and super low 60 to 80:1 low range capabilities!!! AMEN TO THAT. When the D90 guys run 39.5s they will appreciate that.

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Old 02-21-2002, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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adam you are absolutely right, and the only solution to this problem that i have found is to...

sell the rover and buy a better rig. sure maybe not better off the showrrom floor, but no one in the rover community will give you sheet for swapping transfer cases and what not. they are SO BRAINWASHED by the BEST4x4xFAR BS that they have uneducated preformed opinions on everything with no actual knowledge to back it up. "I changed my transfer case to a Dana 300". "why did you do that?!?!? the LT230 is the BEST!"

im sick of it all, personally. i dont know about you. but i do think that it is totally kick ass that you are doing this to your rig.

i do have one question though, if you want to go D300/Atlas, why not just lose the rover motor and trans too? get a 350 and a 700R-4 so you can buy pre made adapters for everything you need. and that way you lose the rover POS motor. just IMO.
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Old 02-21-2002, 01:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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you are absolutely right. I just want to wait for a motor that is coming out in three years. Plus doing step by step with the ultimate goal (what you listed I should do) makes it more feasible.

Way
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Old 02-21-2002, 01:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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what motor comes out in three years adam?
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Old 02-21-2002, 01:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Adam what your doing to your rig is killer! I hope to do something similiar oneday when I have the know-how, or find someone who does. Please tell me where I can see some more pics of your conversion.

9-Volt:
Who gives a sh*t what the Rover people think, don't sell a rig because you don't like majority of the owners. I could care less what the Rover community (if there is such a thing) thinks of me or my truck. The few "events" I've gone to I've gotten all sorts of nasty comments from people who don't even know me, never met me, and if thats their deal fine, fawk'um. I wheel for fun, and I'm not gonna let anyone stop me from having fun. Don't let the attitudes of some snobs & yuppies dictate your choice in vehicle. In my oppinion if they feel threatened enough to make disparaging comments about your truck, then your obviously doing something right. Sorry to cut this rant short but my ENGR exam is calling.

-Jon
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Old 02-21-2002, 03:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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hey 9 volt
i'm not a rover guy, but a jeep guy and I ditched my dana 300 for the LT-230
and I can list the reasons why
bigger
stronger
better low range
as adaptable as the 300
better drive shaft angles
i would try to convince this guy to keep the lt-230 not b/c it is rover, hell I'd toss all the other stuff and just keep the 230,( and maybe the frame)
have you looked at the gears in an Lt-230 and compared them to the gears in an atlas?
and finding a bombproof offset rear axle isn't that hard if you are willing to do a little work.
my rear axle will be as big and bomber as a 14 bolt
it only cost me $150 plus new bearing and seals.
it's name is eaton and you can find it under 1969 3/4 ton chevy's
I'm all for building whatever you want and ignoring the snobs, but be sure you do some research because it sucks when the snobs are right.
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Old 02-21-2002, 04:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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motors and t-cases

To anwer the question of what motor comes out in 3 years, It is a Ford motor that has hydraulic lifters. I am not usually a Ford person, but I talked to a friend of the designer who know a ton about engines, and this will have a sweet power to weight ratio and a lot less friction in the engine. The horsepower is good and the torque is better than a diesel. I really have not researched engines yet ($$cost prohibitive), but this sounds good to *this* layperson.

Most likely I will get the bug and want to replace my engine earlier. In that case I would do a crate motor and purchase a ramjet 350 (chevy) and leave it stock as possible.

I am a big fan of modifying so that your rig can be compatable with the norm, hence the standard parts that anyone can work on and that are easily upgraded, etc. The stock transfer case may be strong, but....they did not come in 89-95 RR we have a Borg Warner chain-driven, w/viscous locking differential. Vs. a 1987-88: Land Rover LT230 gear-driven w/manual locking differential

Additional factors to consider:
1. I have never seen an atlas break
2. I'm in it for the low range 4.3 vs. (rover 3.224L 1.226H)
Current low range w 4:10r/p and strock tcase =32.98
Was with 4:70r/p and stcok t-case =37.81
with atlas and 4:10s =43.72
*based on 2.48 tran gear in ZF 4HP22 4 speed auto
3. I prefer to have a standard 60 in the rear and only carry one axle that will work in both sides.
4. I already have the 60
5. twin stick
6. cutting brakes!!!
7. 9.75 inch ring gear in a 60
8. 30 spline axles (1/31 diameter)
9. 4:10s stock
10. huge brakes
11. envious of Doug M. and want to follow in his foot steps
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Old 02-21-2002, 05:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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it sound like you have settled on the atlas, good choice versus the 300 and if you are going with the centered 60. another bonus is that there is already an arb for the 60, nothing yet for the eaton. I guess I just want my weak link to be gravity.
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Old 02-21-2002, 11:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Swapping in an atlas (if you carnt get I pre made kit) sounds like a job that will take a shiat load of work and a shiat load of money. If your gonna go atlas swap the tranny as well and if your going to swap that then you may as well swap the motor as well cause it will be a lot simpler. Of course if you can buy a kit to do the job then its easy.

Id be getting an lt230 and putting in 4.3:1 low gears (swap the high gears as well if you want) and then do something wiht the centred diff or just run it as is.

Actually the first thing that I would do is just throw the rear d60 in as is, hook up the tailshaft (cut and shut yours and a d60 one if you have to) and get out there and wheel it and see how it goes. Then you will know where you have to spend the money.


BTW whats all this crap about worrying about what anyone else thinks about what should be done or not done to a rover. Cmon get over it and get on with your shiat.


Sam
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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driveshaft question

Hmmmm.....

While I was working at Moab last year in the Spansih Trails Arena I had a long talk with some friends at Advanced Adapters. From what I was told, Greg Jevne of Safarigard had sent them several components for them to check out. I guess he wanted to make the kit availbale as part of his product line. Becasue it is a new thing, it may not be in their catalog, in fact I am sure of it as I thumbed through it a few days ago. I am 90% certain that they now make a kit if you call.

I really do not think that it would cost the much to make your own kit. Many of us on the list are good with autocad, and having a cnc machine shop run a print would not break the bank.

One question for the pros out there. If I did run the stock t-case and put the dana 60 in. The driveshaft would be tweaked to the drivers side about 1 foot or so. Having a double cardon driveshaft on both ends is supposed to account for weird angles in the vertical plane, but what about on the x axis (lateral plane across the angle). I can't imagine that over a 3 foot length that, that would be that big of a deal. Is it?????????????????????
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Old 02-22-2002, 01:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think strange rover posted above that he is running it that way
I'd say go for it and see what happens.
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: driveshaft question

Quote:
Originally posted by Way
Hmmmm.....

While I was working at Moab last year in the Spansih Trails Arena I had a long talk with some friends at Advanced Adapters. From what I was told, Greg Jevne of Safarigard had sent them several components for them to check out. I guess he wanted to make the kit availbale as part of his product line. Becasue it is a new thing, it may not be in their catalog, in fact I am sure of it as I thumbed through it a few days ago. I am 90% certain that they now make a kit if you call.

I really do not think that it would cost the much to make your own kit. Many of us on the list are good with autocad, and having a cnc machine shop run a print would not break the bank.

One question for the pros out there. If I did run the stock t-case and put the dana 60 in. The driveshaft would be tweaked to the drivers side about 1 foot or so. Having a double cardon driveshaft on both ends is supposed to account for weird angles in the vertical plane, but what about on the x axis (lateral plane across the angle). I can't imagine that over a 3 foot length that, that would be that big of a deal. Is it?????????????????????
Sounds like a good plan on the adapted.

The only rig running a centred diff on an offset rover transfer is mine. I get a very slight vibration under power at 35mph and thats all. All Ive done is thrown the thing in there, Ihave not tried to fix this vibration. I mate put a salisbury into a disco/series 1 hybred and his vibrates much worse (although it is better now that he rotated the pinion down a bit.) I think that if a rotated the housing a bit I would loose the vibration.

The angles in the lateral plane arnt weird. The angles are identical. If you look at the driveshaft from above (with the offset) the transfer output and the pinion shaft are perfectally parallel. As long as the angle at the unis is within limits then this wont vibrate, you dont need a double double cardon to do this job. When you look at the driveshaft from the side then it is the same as before so it also shouldnt vibrate (if you do have a doubly carden ds now then it will vibrate with a centered diff as you need to unis to cancle the vibration when looking from above). This was my logic so I just hooked the thing up and went for a drive and it went fine (also I didnt have to modify the tailshaft as the length and unis were the same for the scout d44)

So what I would do is throw in the rear d60. Then your stock tailshaft will be too long. So get a wrecked d60 tailshaft cut the end off, cut yours and weld them together (just do it carefully and measure a lot, do lots of small tacks and then weld it) then see how it goes. It wont take much time or money to do this and if it works then sweet and if it dosent then no biggie pull everything out and do whatever you were going to do.


Sam
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Old 02-23-2002, 12:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Cool, I will let the list know how it works then. I will strart on the D60 in two weeks and hopefully have it in, in about 4 weeks. I was just planning on moving back the rear axle so that I can run 37" x 12.50 tires on a Range Rover county. I have already trimmed the rear door to fit 33 x 12.50s with as much articulation as I have. The rear mod will be super easy as well. By moving the rear axle back a bit, the driveshaft will be good. I will most likely just order 1/2 of a driveshaft with the same splines as mine, so that I can run the huge u-joint that I need.

I am a bit confused as to what to make the pinion angle though. Should I have it point straight at the t-case, or rake it down a bit. Sounds like the fewer the angles the better, but your post states that you got rid of vibration by rotating down your diff. Hmmmm..... doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain a bit more???

Would you post a pic or email me direct????

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Old 02-23-2002, 02:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Way
Cool, I will let the list know how it works then. I will strart on the D60 in two weeks and hopefully have it in, in about 4 weeks. I was just planning on moving back the rear axle so that I can run 37" x 12.50 tires on a Range Rover county. I have already trimmed the rear door to fit 33 x 12.50s with as much articulation as I have. The rear mod will be super easy as well. By moving the rear axle back a bit, the driveshaft will be good. I will most likely just order 1/2 of a driveshaft with the same splines as mine, so that I can run the huge u-joint that I need.

I am a bit confused as to what to make the pinion angle though. Should I have it point straight at the t-case, or rake it down a bit. Sounds like the fewer the angles the better, but your post states that you got rid of vibration by rotating down your diff. Hmmmm..... doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain a bit more???

Would you post a pic or email me direct????

Adam Way
I didnt rotate my diff down that was a mate of mine (who has a series1/disco hybred) . His vibrated all the time and he rotated the pinion down to make it parallel to the transfer output shaft. He origionally set his up with the pinion slightle down from pointing straight at the transfer,

The way to run a tailshaft with a uni at each end is to make the angles at each end the same so that the fast slow variation at each uni is the same and therefore cancles each other out and doesnt vibrate. The only time you point the pinion at the transfer is if you run a double carden at the transfer end. The double uni joint dosent vibrate on its own at the pinion end that uni is straight so it doesent vib either. The thing is if you had this setup (one double carden) with the centred diff it will vibrate cause there is nothing to cancel out the vibration fron the single uni when looking from the top.

One way to make the angles the same is to run both shafts parallel to each other. This guarantees that the angles are identical and it shouldnt vibrate.

Looking from the top both shafts are parallel so this wont cause vibration. And if you look at it from the side if you run the pinion slightly up from horizontal (4 deg i think but you can measure the output shaft angle) it should do the job.

What I did with mine is I run my pinion rotated up further that if it was pointed straight at the transfer so that the angles are matched but the angle at the diff is cocked the other way. I did this because the resultant angles are less and the tailshaft is further out of the way. I didnt actually measure anything I just looked it the angles, said close enough, and tack welded the thing on and went for a drive (true shade tree engineering)


Sam
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