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Old 02-26-2002, 09:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Chile Challenge Pics

Here ya go guys!!

I have almost 300 pictures on my digicam and have made up CDs with all of them. E-mail me your address if you want the entire CD and I'll mail one off to you! Yes, they're much better quality on the CDs than I can post on here.

First one sums up the trip I think!



Bill and Sandi Ritchie.. aka Dr. Twist



K.C. and his awesome Mog!!!


Me! Going down the up road!!


Bill finding out why it's the up road!!



Brendan and his super flexy coil-overs


Bill trying to get up a waterfall.
This one killed a rear ashcroft axleshaft and that took out his detroit!



K.C. Gettin it AWN!!


The remains of K.C.'s tires!




Ok. that's a good start. More to come!

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 09:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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More pics from the trip

Mog Surrounded by Defender 90s.


Mog wedged in an optional obstacle.
We later decided this is a short wheelbase obstacle after the D90s made it with only minor rock scraping..


Same wedge from the top.
Yes, that fargin german carburetor kept running even at that angle. Why can't americans come up with something like that??


All the guys trying to play spotter and pull it back up.
"We tried, really we did!!"
Even with the Irish and the Americans working together, we needed more.



Back to Brendan climbing a little waterfall


And spanking it!!


Here's the same waterfall from the other side.
Yes, I made it up.. With a little Stoopid pedal!
Sure.. who am I kidding.. I was romping on it.


And our trail leader in his trick Cummins powered Jeep on what I think is Nemesis III. No, he didn't roll, but he tried. Nobody made it up this one, not even the mog!


He tried again, same result.


Just to give you an idea of how high this waterfall is, this is the view from the top, looking way down on the mog!
Oh yeah, and that awesome commando in the background was denied too.


K.C. giving it all he's got... He was so close.. just couldn't get the front tires to grab over the top of the ledge. You gotta respect a rig that can go out and hammer like this for 4 days straight with full throttle launches on rocks like this and not break at all. With some better tires, he'd have made everything! Oh yeah, and he's only had the thing a couple weeks!


I'll have a few more up in a little bit.

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 09:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Looks Awesome!

I can't wait to hear all the stories and see some more pics. If it had been a week later I coulda gone... .. So how'd the 37's do, and whats up with the rims on that red D90?

Any chance you'll post some higher res pics somewhere?

-Jon
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'd love to post higher res, but it's limited here. I'll have to set up an account to post the stuff somewhere else. Also, if you want, I can e-mail you stuff or burn another copy of the CD of all the pics and send it to you.

More on the way!

And Ivor has about 300 pics as well as Sandi has a ton so I'm sure we'll have more coming online soon.

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'd love to post higher res, but it's limited here. I'll have to set
Your problem is there 300 DPI!!!

You should have no problem getting a 640x640 up on POR if you just drop them to 100 dpi and use a little JPG compression
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Last of my pics..

Yes, I do have more, but this is a selection of what I think are the best ones.. Anybody who wants all of them, e-mail me your address and I'll burn a CD for you.

Mog on Nemesis III continued..
Even with Dr. Twist riding shotgun, it wasn't going to make it.


I was having trouble with overheating my clutch after the first day. I really need lower gears! So.. I had to shut down and wait for the clutch to cool before driving out of this one!


Yes, we stood around shooting the bull until the darn thing cooled.. I know, I know.. a slushbox will cure the problem...


Doug Marbourg piloting the Mog..


Dr. Twist heading up a dusty hill.


Jon Tisdale on the same hill.


Artsy shot of the guys with the Mog hanging out at the end of a long day.


The Irish Contingent..


Alright guys.. I have a couple more that will be up later.

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's the Mog on the ramp!


and the Mog backwards..


Coilover D90 backwards


From the front


We ramped about the same..


Rich Hills and his D90 hard top..
I like the approach angle on his front bumper.


Going up a nasty little climb..
I didn't get any pictures of Tisdale on this one, did anyone else?


Just to my left there is a nasty dropoff..


Here's the mog skying a tire on the same climb


And lined up on the obstacle.
I think he could have made it with the right line, but after just about going over a couple times, it became clear that this was a short wheelbase obstacle.


Well, that's about it from me.. I have a bunch more, but these were the highlights. I look foreward to seeing everyone else's pictures!

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Old Scout


Your problem is there 300 DPI!!!

You should have no problem getting a 640x640 up on POR if you just drop them to 100 dpi and use a little JPG compression
I guess so. I just don't have the software here at work to do that. I'll look into it at home when I get some more time.

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by madcowdungbeetle
Looks Awesome!

I can't wait to hear all the stories and see some more pics. If it had been a week later I coulda gone... .. So how'd the 37's do, and whats up with the rims on that red D90?

Any chance you'll post some higher res pics somewhere?

-Jon
I think the 37s did absolutely awesome! I have just a little more trimming to do on the front and they'll clear all around. Only problem was that I managed to put a 4x6" hole in one of the SSRs. Oh well.. Road hazard!! I may end up going to an SX eventually, but the problem is that the 38" tires are going to hit my footwell and frame outriggers and I'd rather not go down to 36". I dunno.. I guess I'll just keep using the road hazard warrantee for a while!

And that red D90 was running 37x12.5R17 MT/Rs. Apparently, those are what he found for rims to fit them. He wasn't afraid to scrape them, so what the heck.. I know he was talking beadlocks coming sometime though.

-John
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Cool

Damn, nice shots. I wanna go
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Old 02-26-2002, 02:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Nice shots! Really gave me a "jones" to go wheeling... Looks like it was a blast.

Love the Mog (Rovers were nice too ), pictures made me want to wheel a Mog (what are the dimensions of that thing?).

What model Mog is that and how much did it cost, where did he get it etc...
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Old 02-26-2002, 02:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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that's a 404 mog. they've got a 114 inch wheelbase and mercedes 2.2 liter gas engine. stock crawl ratio is 113:1 with 17-19" of ground clearance. You can find them easily for around 7 grand. REALLY fun trucks.

-Steve
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Old 02-26-2002, 02:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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John-

Nice shots! I've got some video of me hanging my left side wheels off that shelf but no photos. I'll send you my addy for a CD, lemme know if you want a copy of the video tape.

BTW-sorry we didn't get a chance to say adios, we ended up leaving straight from the dinner on Sat.

Johnathan
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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that's a 404 mog. they've got a 114 inch wheelbase and mercedes 2.2 liter gas engine. stock crawl ratio is 113:1 with 17-19" of ground clearance. You can find them easily for around 7 grand. REALLY fun trucks.

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Thanks Steve
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Old 02-26-2002, 09:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Great photo storyboard! I have been waiting for action shots like that all winter!
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Old 02-26-2002, 11:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Looks like fun. Would that Ashcroft underdrive box have made a big difference down there or were the obstacles something that required some momentum and power to get up? I'm on the fence about getting one soon.
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Old 02-27-2002, 05:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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AWESOME PICTURES!!!

i want me a moggie now too!
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Old 02-27-2002, 08:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fear Factory
Looks like fun. Would that Ashcroft underdrive box have made a big difference down there or were the obstacles something that required some momentum and power to get up? I'm on the fence about getting one soon.
Honestly, there were some of both there. Most of them could be crawled and should be crawled. I had to slide the clutch to do that and that was where the problem was. I had absolutely no trouble with the obstacles that required momentum because I had more than enough power to get up them. And my breaking the rear R&P was just plain stupid because I was sitting at the bottom of a waterfall with all the weight on the rear end and got it bouncing. I should have let off, backed off, and tried a few more times, but I was tired and didn't think about it right. Oh well, live and learn.

I was still able to romp on my truck for 4 days and it's still driveable so I'm absolutely thrilled with the trip. Bill Davis is going to make me a R&P treated similar to his CVs and that should give me all the strength I need.

No, I'd rather not go to bigger axles right now because I don't want to lose clearance. And if I did anything, it would be a salisbury so it would match my D110. Of course, that would make it a heckuva lot harder to swap out a third member in case of a problem. I like this simple bolt-in stuff!

Anyway, back to the underdrive, I'll let you know how it works for me, but my plan is to use it to try and crawl the obstacles first and then if i can't get a bite or find the right line and need momentum, I can either shift up to 3rd or 4th in the tranny or just turn off the underdrive and go back to regular low range.

-John
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Old 02-27-2002, 12:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Rover Addiction,

Great pictures and great story. I just like to say that Id take your d90 anyday over that mog.

What gearing are you running now. Is it stock manual gearbox (4:1) and transfer gears (3.3:1) with 4.1 diffs? With 37in tyres?

Did Brendon and Bill both run autos? What ratios are they running? Overall did you feel their autos worked better than your manual (im assuming they run autos).

Sorry for so many questions. I just wish I was there. Great trails.

Oh yea. That waterfall where you drove it "With a little Stoopid pedal!
Sure.. who am I kidding.. I was romping on it." How much stupid pedal, were you in first gear. Do you ever drive that type of stuff in second. Its just that here probably 99% of the stuff we drive is in second gear and I was just wondering.

Thanks.

Sam
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Old 02-27-2002, 02:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Rover
Rover Addiction,

Great pictures and great story. I just like to say that Id take your d90 anyday over that mog.

[COLOR=sky blue]Yeah, I agree that's why I'm still driving my D90! It would be cool to have a choice of which to drive on a particular day, however. And also, there's that thought that the mog is even more unusual than a D90 and runs this stuff STOCK!! [/COLOR]

What gearing are you running now. Is it stock manual gearbox (4:1) and transfer gears (3.3:1) with 4.1 diffs? With 37in tyres?

[COLOR=sky blue]Yup. Stock t-case, stock manual gearbox, and GBR 4.1 diffs. 37x12.50R15 Swamper SSRs on a 15x10 beadlock rim. [/COLOR]

Did Brendon and Bill both run autos? What ratios are they running? Overall did you feel their autos worked better than your manual (im assuming they run autos).

[COLOR=sky blue]Actually, Bill (the yellow one) was the only autobox rover there and I guess I just look at the way he was able to crawl obstacles without having to burn up the clutch or bump into the rocks and that seemed much easier to drive and much easier on the truck. Another thing that is important to note is that my clutch has about 7k miles on it, mostly extremely tough off-roading. I don't drive it on the road much and I trailer it to the hard trails. Yes, it's a trailer queen, but there have been many times when I drove it home and someone else's rig was on the trailer. I've been rock crawling on this clutch for about a year and I've hit lots of mud in between. Also, my slave cylinder was leaking clutch fluid into the bell housing for about that much time, so I'm sure that didn't help matters anyway.

Also, although some of the guys are talking about doing the auto conversion, nobody else had trouble with their clutch. It was definitely more work to drive it smooth than with a manual, but I think that lower low range gears will help that. [/COLOR]

Sorry for so many questions. I just wish I was there. Great trails.

[COLOR=sky blue]Questions are great! They make me think, give other people ideas (I hope) and let me explain what I do and why I do it.[/COLOR]

Oh yea. That waterfall where you drove it "With a little Stoopid pedal!
Sure.. who am I kidding.. I was romping on it." How much stupid pedal, were you in first gear. Do you ever drive that type of stuff in second. Its just that here probably 99% of the stuff we drive is in second gear and I was just wondering.

[COLOR=sky blue]Yup. first gear, low range. I have occasionally used second, but since I usually try crawling the obstacle first, I'm in first already. Also, often times, second would cause me to either slip the clutch more, hit the rocks too hard, or in extreme cases, not have enough torque to get started in the first place. I really never thought about hitting second on this stuff since a higher gear didn't seem to be an advantage and the obstacles are short enough that I don't need to be on the power that long. For longer climbs, I definitely hit second or even third to keep wheel speed up. [/COLOR]

Thanks.

Sam

[COLOR=sky blue]Hope that answers everything and my only question is what kind of terrain are you on that works well in second gear?

-John[/COLOR]
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Old 02-28-2002, 03:59 AM   #21 (permalink)
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[COLOR=sky blue]Hope that answers everything and my only question is what kind of terrain are you on that works well in second gear?

-John[/COLOR]
Thanks for the explination. The pictures are great and now that I know what gear your driving I can get a feel of how you are driving this stuff. The more I talk to you guys the more I learn. I think that here in OZ we are a fair bit behind you guys in terms of what we drive. I can only base this on pictures (which is hard to judge) and how much stuff we break (we break a lot less on the same sized tyres)

Most rover guys here run maxi drive lockers and HD axles with 110 cv up to 35in tyres and dont have much trouble. Nobody I know locally has broken a maxi axle and most break a rear crownwheel and a cv about once a year.

I think we run softer spring rates than you guys. Most of the extreme rover guys run 170lb/in springs front and rear and ramp about 800-1000 on a 20 degree. Most run the standard front radius arms (not many three links here I know of only one) with modified radius arm bushes (single shell rubber bushes with holes drilled above and below the the crush tube to free them up and to stop them tearing - this is good to about a 10in travel shock)

Its funny that I look at your pictures I think that we do have some similar types of terain and I think that a lot of it I would drive in second gear if I couldnt drive it in first(although I am probably way wrong).

Here on any of the uphill loose stuff (rocks with dirt around them) momentum is king. We try first time in secont gear at about 2000rpm and just keep traveling.

In the rocky stuff where the rocks are bigger and dont move (and I feel that is similar to your pictures but again this is very,VERY hard to judge)and there is more traction we generaly just crawl in first gear to be carefull and slow so that I can keep on line and not fall into some hole or something and if I get stuck then I try momentum in first (up to maximum revs) and the if I still carnt drive it then I try momentum in second (full throttle maybe not maximum revs) it always amazes what a difference secound gear makes.

There are lots of short steep climbs (step ups and jump ups) that we carnt drive in first gear but can in second. In fact I carnt think of any really hard short, vertical rocky climbs that are driven in first. We end up having to use second to make them.

I would have to say that the stuff we are driving must be way different to what you guys drive because here we use second all the time (unless idling over boulders that have vertical faces where momentum is useless). Maybe our terrain isnt as sharply changing as yours and we can run at them a little bit faster.

I really got to get my rig going (only got the lights and lockers to wire and change the springs to get it basically drivable) and Ill post some pictures. Still havent got my new tyres. Hopefully next week.

Sam
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Old 02-28-2002, 04:17 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Just reread your reply again and as you say you carnt go any faster cause you hit the rocks too hard

Quote:
Also, often times, second would cause me to either slip the clutch more, hit the rocks too hard, or in extreme cases, not have enough torque to get started in the first place.
I guess this is probably the main difference. Most of the times we can drive in second and this probably accounts for a lot less breakage. And again this is probably because our terrain isnt as sharply changing (vertical step ups arnt quite as vertical).

Cheers

Sam
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Old 02-28-2002, 08:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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It sounds to me like we're running similar terrain, but these particular trails run more towards steep ledges and climbs that are vertical. You have to crawl the front up them because if you hit them with any momentum, you'd either bounce off or break something.

As usual, the pictures don't really do this kind of terrain justice, but if you imagine climbing a vertical wall approximately 4ft tall (just over a metre) with pretty good traction but an extremely sharp breakover, you can imagine what we are climbing. Many times, I have to stack rocks or climb the side in order to get my big boat anchor ARB bumper up these obstacles. I'm thinking about going to a Rockware bumper which is equally strong, lighter, and allows a much better approach angle.

Then, once you get the front up, you have to use some momentum to slide over the bellypan (yes, it's a good idea on this stuff) and get to the rear tires and get them going up the ledge.

The other thing that's not so steep is the waterfalls where you see multiple smaller ledges in a step fashion. Momentum can be your friend here, but hitting them with any sort of speed will again break things, so it's best to crawl them. Of course, it gets extremely hard when you get 2, 3, or 4 wheels all trying to climb a different ledge at the same time. This basically stops you in your tracks and you have to back off and "bump" it to use a little momentum to bounce you over it. I'll have to try 2nd gear next time I'm in that situation, but I know I'm not maxing out 1st gear, so I'm not sure that will help other than slipping the clutch more.

I must emphasize that nobody else there with a manual transmission had any problems whatsoever. I know mine has been driven hard, used, and abused on rough terrain for quite a while and anyone there will say I don't have the most gentle driving style. So.. I don't think the fault is with the clutch or the manual transmission as much as with the driver and my not preparing the truck with lower gears to allow less use of the clutch and better control over the motion of the truck.

So.. I'll try 2nd and see what happens. I'm always looking for different ways of doing things that might be better than what I'm already doing.

Oh yeah, and I'll post my carnage pics on bill's carnage post and this one..

-John
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Old 02-28-2002, 08:46 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Carnage!!!

See this post for the carnage pictures!!

Carnage post

-John
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Old 02-28-2002, 08:49 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm not sure momentum or second gear would be helpful as John mentioned. The crawling was very technical, picking exact lines and not spinning a wheel in order to stay on them. You guys saw when I spun a bit on that last climb the last day. When I slipped off the line it nearly resulting in what would have been a catastrophic side roll of a 4-5' ledge.

Slipping the clutch was mandatory, I hate to do it but you had to. You can hear Wes bitching at me on tape when I stall several times because I hate slipping the friggin clutch. That is why I am going to a slushbox. Most other rocky terrain you can get by in 1st low and modulating the brakes, here you had to slip the clutch to ease up a climb or to negotiate large boulders which required slower going than 1st low with brakes.

Just my .02

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