Range Rover - bad fuel pump???

[Serious One]

I *think* that my fuel pump died today. I checked spark from the
coil and it's good (tried 2 different coils). I have a full tank
(filled it up last night), but can't hear the fuel pump over the ABS
brake pump noise. It *might* be working, but I can't tell.

The fuse for the fuel pump (C4) is good (I tried two other fuses).

The relay for the fuel pump under the passenger seat clicks (tried 3
different relays, they all click).

We cracked the fitting to the fuel rails, and tried to start it, no
fuel was coming out of the fitting (the 14mm double nut fitting on
the LHS of the fuel rail).

Is there anything I'm missing? Is there a test to see if the fuel
pump is working that I don't know about? Is there a way to put hot
power to the fuel pump for a test?

If it is the fuel pump I'm going to be bummed. I am *supposed* to be
getting the trailer and Serious One ready for a big car show this
weekend, and with the shit going on with my Range Rover I don't know
what's going to happen.

Plus the more immediate concern of getting my 2 kids to school in the
morning in the 80-inch truck. I'll have to put the back seat and the
seatbelts in in the morning. Ugh.

Thanks for any/all advice.

Michael

[merv]

Give the kids the keys - Let 'em drive themselves :-)

[SeaRover]

i feel your pain. I've missed 2 4x4 outings now, and a couple of good ski trips

$191 from nathan (takes about a week to get from UK) or ~$290 (includes ancillaries) from British Pacific.

I'm ordering mine this morning

Also check your fuel filter. mine was about 98% clogged, which is probably what led to the death of the fuel pump. THe fuel filter is located just forward of the passenger side rear wheel and is mounted onthe frame. it's probably the screw in type.

the way to really know is to hook up a fuel pressure gauge (about 50 bucks) just after the fuel filter. it took me a couple days however to cobble together the right NPT fittings to get a gauge configured "in-line". This is a real PITA. Since something is busted entirely on your truck, i'd just disconnect the input line to the filter, put a hose over that, and dump to a 1gallon jug. then crank it over and see what ya get.

the fuel system is supposed to be pressurized between 34 and 37 PSI. Mine is currently at 18PSI, or so I found out sunday.

to open up the system it you have to yank the fuel-relay (2nd brown relay under seat from the left) and crank it over to depressurize it. SInce you've cracked your rail under the hood and didn't get a face full of gas, the possibility of the problem lying either your filter, the pump or both.

the filter is about $12 from the local parts store. mine is a FRAM G3727 .

I'll check back later this morning if you have any questions, but honestly that's about all i know so far on the subject.

good luck,

isaac

[SeaRover]

I should have asked - what year is your RR? You can get a caddy pump down at the parts store for about $70 if your's is a 1990 or earlier.

if you do a search on roversnorth or RRO archives you can find the p/n's there.

the price above is for 1991-95 that have the integrated senders

isaac / seattle / 91RRC

[Serious One]

Thanks for all the help.

I'll go to NAPA this morning and get the fuel filter. I didn't crack the lines at the filter which is something I should have done, both before and after the filter, to see if there was any fuel. It was 12:30 and I was bushed.

So, I come home and what do I do? I surf the 'net until 2am because I can't sleep. DOH!

I'll check out the archives for the fuel pump.

My RR is a '90, with a build date of 10/89, so the $70 fuel pump would certainly be nice.

I'm also considering strongly replacing the entire distributor with an HEI unit so that I won't have to fiddle with it any more. The coil was just pissing me off last night, and after changing 3 of them, thinking it was the coil, I decided to look into the HEI. I think I have a nearly-bolt-on solution.

Thanks again,

Michael

PS The kids were on time this morning.

[evilfij]

89 caddy seville I am 99% sure. Just put one in an 88 with the gang a few months ago.

Just reverse the wires on it or it will pump fuel the wrong way

Do you have the hole in the rear floor on a 90 or no? If you do it is like a 10minute swap. My 88 does not but the 96 disco does. I was thinking about adding one to the 88 but I have not yet.

Ron

[merv]

Just a general but related thing: Just because a relay clicks when you switch it on and off does not mean that there is power entering it thought the main power in wire. It's possible it's only getting current in the triggering / switching terminal, and there is no juice flowing in the main one. Use one of 'en curcuit testers with a sharp point to stab the wire and see if their is joice flowing as it exits the relay. and again back at the pump.

Merv.

[marty]

Michael

In the drivers side rear wheel well is a blade electrical connector that goes to the fuel pump. These connectors have a habit of getting corroded and breaking the circuit.

Take it apart and clean the connectors/blades good and give it a try. Two people I know had the same symtoms and this was the cause of both problems.

Good luck

Marty

[alia176]

Michael,

Check the fuel pump ground under the rear cargo area, closer to the driver/rear tire wheel well. This thing gets hit with road crap and such and tends to corrode over time. This is your only ground for the pump!

Good luck.

Ali

[JSBriggs]

Mike,

I would try to check power at the pump. Unplug it and use a test light. Also, double check the reset switch under the drivers seat.

On a side note, when I removed the resonator from my truck, the built up heat melted the fuel pump wires causing drivabilty problems. I replaced and rerouted the wires, now no problems there.

On a side note of the side note, (yea I know a doubble tangent, way out there) On Tuesday my truck caught on fire. The brake light switch at the pedal had a flame up. Smoke, and flames from under the dash, quite scarry. Pascal would have been proud of my fire extinguishing skills. The truck is still intact, but I now have some wiring issues to sort out this weekend.


-Jeff Briggs

[SeaRover]

well, after throwing on a pressure gauge I was convinced my pump had went south. 18psi . . . hmph. It ran, it just ran rough; coughing, misfires etc. etc.. Despite Jeff telling me this once before about the wiring and many others as well, I ordered the pump in blind naivety.

BUT - before breaking into the pump, I broke out the multi and measured voltage at the pump connector. 5 volts. after fidgeting with it all night long, this had dropped to ~2.9 volts.

Believe it or not, I made my 20 mile commute to work this morning w/ less than 3 volts to the fuel pump!! (measured @ work parking-lot, at a rough idle)

I had taken out the spare, and isolated the green/black-traced wire that is the main power-supply to the pump just as it comes down from the B-Pillar and tucks back into the inside sheet metal. I did continuity tests on the wiring down-stream from that point and it all checked out. Made double-sure that the frame ground was good, and the voltage checks the same in 3 other spots down-stream from the upper b-pillar splice.

So, I have a short somewhere between the B-Pillar and the main connect point for the aft-loom. <sigh>

for kicks I picked up a new fuel pump relay this morning and tossed it in ($17 from the dealer, $29 + shipping from AB - I was shocked.) but alas, no dice.

I think my next step is to splice off the relay's final + feed straight to the green/blck wire in the harness, at the pump to make double-sure this is the issue.

and with all the hacking im doing, and after hearing Jeff's horror incident on rangie-L I picked up a dedicated fire extinguisher for the rig. this week it's staying within reach




isaac / seattle / 91RRC

[marty]

Mike

I'm not sure about this, and anyone who knows can correct me, but I THINK the voltage to the pump is dropped to a lower value, so don't hot wire your pump with 12 volts. This was told to me by one of the guys that pointed us to the electrical connector in the rear.

When the problem occured on my friends truck, we did a voltage test and also got a low reading. The best thing is to reach out to someone who has an electrical shop manual, anyone................

Marty

[Serious One]

Wow, lots of good advice. I've been too busy getting ready for the Portland Roadster Show with my Series One that I haven't worked on the RR since Tuesday.

Jeff- way to go man! I'll keep my fire extinguisher in the truck for sure now! If you've had problems with that switch, then mine are probably not far away! (anyone wanna buy a RR???)

I've been told to look for main ground problems, so I think tomorrow I'll throw it on the rack, get out the continuity tester and start looking for electrical problems.

Funny thing was I replaced the coil, reset the ECU, replaced *BOTH* relays, and the thing actually sputtered to life Tues. night. I was surprized when it started.

I took it for a spin around the block, everything was great, hooked up the trailer (man, it's suhhhweet!), and went to start it again. Nothing! Dead! Oh crap!

Unhook trailer, move it into shop, push RR into parking spot and drive home S1 in disgust.

It's sat for 3 days so maybe now I have some time to fiddle with it.

I'm thinking it's definitely an electrical problem now rather than an ignition problem. I'll start checking grounds and continuity.

Thanks again everyone.

Michael

PS Jeff, let me know if you need that *spare* RR wiring harness!

[Serious One]

As for the RR, well, I have the following figured out:

Power to injectors is good (tested with injector blinking light tool,
Snap-On part actually)

Power to fuel pump is good

Relays are good

Fuel is getting to fuel rail

Ground from block to coil is good

3 different coils were tried (still won't start though)

New Fuel Filter

ECU reset (fault code 02)

Now I'm going back to the original diagnosis. It is probably now an
ignition system problem, rather than electrical like I *wanted* to
think it was all week.

I have a Crane Fireball ignition system on it, and am thinking going
back to stock or an HEI set up will be best.

Does anyone know if DEQ will have a problem changing an EFI engine to
a carburetted engine just to eliminate electrical problems? It
should probably still pass emissions right? I'm just thinking of
future reliability. This type of failure is unacceptable in the
future when $$$ is on the line.

Thanks,

Michael

[evilfij]

Did you pull a plug to see if you were getting spark there?

In your first post you said spark at the coil but what about the plugs?

Ron

PS sent you an email on your yahoo account.

[Serious One]

Dunno. Didn't check! I guess I figured that if I see spark at the coil wire, the distributor and cap/rotor are fine. Now I'm not so sure!

The last time this happened I blew my timing gear, shattered it and blew the old 3.9. If that happened this time, I'm for sure parting it out and getting another LWB.

We'll find out tomorrow!

Michael