Shiny balls vs Black balls - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

darkstar · 06-16-2005, 04:18 AM

So, is there any reason I can not use chrome swivel balls on my 98 disco, which originally came with the black teflon coated swivel balls? Would I have to get any other parts that are different in order to use these, such as the swivel bearings, bushings, etc?

I have replaced these before but it has been so long I'm having a hard time remembering what exactly is in there, and the parts and WSMs are not much help, showing multiple choice parts.

In any case, before you banish me to newbie land, the reason I need this info is this: I'm doing Keith's toy axle conversion, and I need to know if I can use his cores for the swivel balls, or if I have to burn another week and more $$$ shipping and send my balls to him.

Thanks guys.

lwg · 06-16-2005, 06:23 AM

Just guessing, I wouldn't think it would matter. Balls are Balls!

Seriously though... If I'm not mistaken basically a '98 disco front axles is the same as my '90 RRC front axle. I would bet their is little or no difference. If anything the teflon coated balls would be better, but not necessary in my opinion.

BTW, Kudos on the Toy Conversion.

64rovr · 06-16-2005, 06:32 AM

there are actually a lot of small differences between the '90 RRC axle and the '98 disco axle- ABS sensors, different spindles, hubs, calipers, etc but none of this should have a huge effect on what youre trying to do.

Are you going with the new super longfields that are all 30 spline?

Mercedesrover · 06-16-2005, 06:40 AM

90-95 RRC with ABS have the same part number swivel balls as the 94-99 Disco I…Part # FTC5105

darkstar · 06-16-2005, 06:44 AM

My NAS discovery parts catalog shows two numbers for this part

FRC2644 (fitted up to 78L.... vin)
FTC5105 (fitted from ... vin)

neither vin pattern matches my vin with starts with SALJ

I was under the impression that the ONLY difference between these was chrome vs teflon coating. is that correct?

PTSchram · 06-16-2005, 08:19 AM

I believe that there is no differencce. After a given VIN they were black.

RedRhinoProducts · 06-16-2005, 09:17 AM

Not to throw a wrench in but, my 87 Classic which just got a new front end from a Disco has one black and one shiny ball...

Seriously though... WTF?

Puffdragon · 06-16-2005, 09:33 AM

There is no dimension differance in the two balls. The teflon balls are just an upgrade, and help reduce leaks etc.

darkstar · 06-16-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 64rovr

Are you going with the new super longfields that are all 30 spline?

Yes--along with ARBs and 4.88s

hope it stays in one piece

lwg · 06-16-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

Yes--along with ARBs and 4.88s

hope it stays in one piece

I hope you don't like going over 70 MPH? This is what I am running and my top speed has dimenished significantly... Of course I tow now so it's not that big of a deal. If I were doing it again I would have gone with 4.56 gears.

darkstar · 06-16-2005, 06:16 PM

Mine's a trailer queen also. 55 will be fine for whatever short highway jaunts it will see.

aloharover · 06-16-2005, 07:58 PM

Aren't you worried about decreased R&P strength?

Pete

darkstar · 06-16-2005, 09:14 PM

That's why I went with 4.88s instead of 5.29s

PTSchram · 06-17-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

That's why I went with 4.88s instead of 5.29s

I ran 5.13s in a drag car... It was quick, but not very fast

(it would however, pull the wheels in all four gears until the ring gear grenaded)

RoverDan · 06-17-2005, 08:14 AM

Is the pinion strength that much of an issue on the Toy centers as opposed to the rover diffs?

Mercedesrover · 06-17-2005, 08:37 AM

As a general rule, the higher the gear, the stronger the ring and pinion. But you're right, compared to the Rover diff, any Toyota is going to be better. Hell, any Subaru is going to be better!

Discosaurus · 06-17-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

Yes--along with ARBs and 4.88s

hope it stays in one piece

Good Man !

I may elect to wheel with you once again if I can actually get some wheel spin when following your lines.....

SCSL · 06-17-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

... or if I have to burn another week and more $$$ shipping and send my balls to him.

My ex-wife tried to pull the same thing on me. I told her there she got enough damn money & there was no way she was getting my balls. Kept Rover, ditched ex-. Great deal (oh yeah & kept the balls too

)

RedRhinoProducts · 06-18-2005, 06:12 AM

What about flesh colored balls?

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist!

aloharover · 06-18-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

Yes--along with ARBs and 4.88s

hope it stays in one piece

Are you using the toy center or rover center?

Reason I ask is you can get a complete toy center for just a little bit more then an ARB.

Pete

Mercedesrover · 06-18-2005, 07:25 PM

If I'm not mistaken, LWG, Darkstar and Disco Dino are all running V6 Toyota open-style diffs with ARBs. Anybody else running E-lockers?

Speaking of Toyota diffs, is anyone running the new/bigger/stronger Taco diff yet? Toyota uses them in almost everything from the Tacoma to the Sequoia to the Land Cruiser now so it's pretty common. Same 8" ring gear (though it's different than the V6 diff) but a little bit larger bolt pattern and 10mm studs instead of 8mm. It's got a huge one-piece bearing cap. Same 30-spline axles too. ARB makes a locker for this as well.

darkstar · 06-18-2005, 08:35 PM

I'm going to run toy chunks, axles, and (in front) longfields inside the rover housing.

Speaking of the rover housing, I coulndn't believe how light it was. I was able to grab it and throw it up on my work bench by myself with minimal effort.

aloharover · 06-19-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

I'm going to run toy chunks, axles, and (in front) longfields inside the rover housing.

Speaking of the rover housing, I coulndn't believe how light it was. I was able to grab it and throw it up on my work bench by myself with minimal effort.

Yeah not much to them.
Are you going to sleeve the inside of the tube?

Pete

darkstar · 06-19-2005, 06:02 PM

I hadn't planned on it. I really want to get the truck back on the trail before the summer goes away. I'm very prone to catching shipfitters disease, so I'm trying to keep this project on track and on schedule, which is to be done next weekend.

Interesting thought though. Anyone done it? What size tube will fit in there, anyway?

ISUZUROVER · 06-20-2005, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar

Interesting thought though. Anyone done it? What size tube will fit in there, anyway?

Mal Story from Maxi-Drive used to do this mod but doesn't now. He said that it adds a lot of weight but not much extra strength.

For rovers with big heavy diesels (which are known for bending the front axle) - he now just uses external strengthening.

06-16-2005, 04:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	Shiny balls vs Black balls So, is there any reason I can not use chrome swivel balls on my 98 disco, which originally came with the black teflon coated swivel balls? Would I have to get any other parts that are different in order to use these, such as the swivel bearings, bushings, etc? I have replaced these before but it has been so long I'm having a hard time remembering what exactly is in there, and the parts and WSMs are not much help, showing multiple choice parts. In any case, before you banish me to newbie land, the reason I need this info is this: I'm doing Keith's toy axle conversion, and I need to know if I can use his cores for the swivel balls, or if I have to burn another week and more $$$ shipping and send my balls to him. Thanks guys. __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

06-16-2005, 06:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
lwg Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 12044 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,237	Just guessing, I wouldn't think it would matter. Balls are Balls! Seriously though... If I'm not mistaken basically a '98 disco front axles is the same as my '90 RRC front axle. I would bet their is little or no difference. If anything the teflon coated balls would be better, but not necessary in my opinion. BTW, Kudos on the Toy Conversion. __________________ Larry [url]www.columbiaoverland.com[/url]

06-16-2005, 06:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	My NAS discovery parts catalog shows two numbers for this part FRC2644 (fitted up to 78L.... vin) FTC5105 (fitted from ... vin) neither vin pattern matches my vin with starts with SALJ I was under the impression that the ONLY difference between these was chrome vs teflon coating. is that correct? __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

06-16-2005, 08:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
PTSchram Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12499 Location: In a Snap-On truck tryin' to make it pay Posts: 10,543	I believe that there is no differencce. After a given VIN they were black. __________________ Wrenchin' to riches! If you want peace, prepare for war.

06-16-2005, 09:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
RedRhinoProducts Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 38577 Location: Which way is 66° 33′ 39″ N sir? Posts: 401	Not to throw a wrench in but, my 87 Classic which just got a new front end from a Disco has one black and one shiny ball... Seriously though... WTF? __________________ . .. ... "We had seen God in His splendors, heard the text that Nature renders. We had reached the naked soul of man." - E.S.

06-16-2005, 06:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
64rovr Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Member # 1745 Location: MA Posts: 2,118	there are actually a lot of small differences between the '90 RRC axle and the '98 disco axle- ABS sensors, different spindles, hubs, calipers, etc but none of this should have a huge effect on what youre trying to do. Are you going with the new super longfields that are all 30 spline?

06-16-2005, 06:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mercedesrover Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17378 Location: Yuppyville Posts: 577	90-95 RRC with ABS have the same part number swivel balls as the 94-99 Disco I…Part # FTC5105

06-16-2005, 09:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
Puffdragon Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Member # 13683 Location: Unknown Posts: 3,192	There is no dimension differance in the two balls. The teflon balls are just an upgrade, and help reduce leaks etc. __________________ K.C.

06-16-2005, 06:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	Mine's a trailer queen also. 55 will be fine for whatever short highway jaunts it will see. __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

06-16-2005, 07:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
aloharover lets go Squatchen Join Date: Oct 2002 Member # 14561 Posts: 15,866	Aren't you worried about decreased R&P strength? Pete __________________ Want to know how I lost 25lbs in 9 weeks? Try INSANITY®. www.beachbodycoach.com/petermhope I love it when a plan comes together Colorado Springs, CO Based FFL-07/SOT

06-16-2005, 09:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	That's why I went with 4.88s instead of 5.29s __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

06-17-2005, 08:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
RoverDan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 27975 Location: Maryland Posts: 209	Is the pinion strength that much of an issue on the Toy centers as opposed to the rover diffs?

06-17-2005, 08:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
Mercedesrover Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17378 Location: Yuppyville Posts: 577	As a general rule, the higher the gear, the stronger the ring and pinion. But you're right, compared to the Rover diff, any Toyota is going to be better. Hell, any Subaru is going to be better!

06-18-2005, 06:12 AM	#19 (permalink)
RedRhinoProducts Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 38577 Location: Which way is 66° 33′ 39″ N sir? Posts: 401	Flesh colored? What about flesh colored balls? Sorry guys, I couldn't resist! __________________ . .. ... "We had seen God in His splendors, heard the text that Nature renders. We had reached the naked soul of man." - E.S.

06-18-2005, 07:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
Mercedesrover Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17378 Location: Yuppyville Posts: 577	If I'm not mistaken, LWG, Darkstar and Disco Dino are all running V6 Toyota open-style diffs with ARBs. Anybody else running E-lockers? Speaking of Toyota diffs, is anyone running the new/bigger/stronger Taco diff yet? Toyota uses them in almost everything from the Tacoma to the Sequoia to the Land Cruiser now so it's pretty common. Same 8" ring gear (though it's different than the V6 diff) but a little bit larger bolt pattern and 10mm studs instead of 8mm. It's got a huge one-piece bearing cap. Same 30-spline axles too. ARB makes a locker for this as well.

06-18-2005, 08:35 PM	#22 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	I'm going to run toy chunks, axles, and (in front) longfields inside the rover housing. Speaking of the rover housing, I coulndn't believe how light it was. I was able to grab it and throw it up on my work bench by myself with minimal effort. __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

06-19-2005, 06:02 PM	#24 (permalink)
darkstar Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13047 Location: Libertyville, IL Posts: 2,572	I hadn't planned on it. I really want to get the truck back on the trail before the summer goes away. I'm very prone to catching shipfitters disease, so I'm trying to keep this project on track and on schedule, which is to be done next weekend. Interesting thought though. Anyone done it? What size tube will fit in there, anyway? __________________ Surplus industrial supplies for sale. Lots of good stuff for your rig, cheap: fasteners, automotive electrical supplies, etc: CLICK HERE.

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