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Old 03-16-2002, 01:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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realistic crawl ratio

whats the lowest that is useable?

Here is why I ask, I have found a set of D60 4.10s free and I got the 1.22 LT230 back together (thanks driller )

So I could go R380-1.22 LT230-4.10

which would give me:

3.39*3.32*4.10=46:1

Versus if I went to R380-1.003-4.7

3.39*3.32*4.7= 53:1

Now with all this talk of 300:1 crawl I am wondering WTF good is it? 40:1 on 32s in a series diesel is plenty It will idle up a 45 degree slope and nearly come to a stop on the way down.

Sooooo what do you think? Keep in mind its diesel will be on 35-36s. Am I going to be itching for an underdrive either way? Will there be a difference between the 4.10s and 4.7s?

Ron
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Old 03-16-2002, 09:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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lose the R380 it will only break any way. but if you have to keep it then i would say go with the 4.7s because with a 300tdi, 1.22:1, 4.10s, and 35s, you will have NO acceleration on the road AT ALL. going up hills i would not be surprised if you had to drop to 3rd to keep it moving.

fact is, IMO anyway, 300tdi is a BAD motor for america. people drive too fast, there are too many hills, and acceleration is valued too highly for it to be a real contender.

do you already have the tdi/R380? if not then i would not bother buying them and instead go with the cummins 3.9L 4BT and an SM420/465. Coopah can make you an adapter for it for a few hundred bucks im sure, and you will have a super torquey motor, an indestructible trans, and a hell of a lot better road vehicle.

just IMO, do what you want, its your money.
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Old 03-16-2002, 09:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm with 9-volt on this one.

I drove and rode in Coopers old '59 that had the 4BT in it with the SM 465 and man was that truck sweet.

PLENTY of power, lots of acceleration and 30mpg. Not bad for a truck that weighed in at just under 5K lbs.

The Cummins was a *tad* loud for my taste, but the truck had no soundproofing on it at all, so I *think* a lot of that could be taken care of.

Ditch the 300Tdi. Find some sucker on the RN or EE site that is in love with the combo. You might come out ahead.

Later,

Michael
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Old 03-16-2002, 03:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ron- What type of wheelin' do you do most. I'd suspect in PA its more mud and hills, not rocks. A sooper crawl ratio wouldn't be a big deal if your running through ruts in second or third. Now if you are into rock crawling, which I think you've mentioned before that you aren't, I'd look at a better crawl ratio. Since you are getting the axles for nothing, why not build them and better your drivetrain strength. Run the 4:10s, if they don't work to your liking sell em or trade for some 4:56s or whatever you think might work better.

Yes, you will notice a difference between the 4:10s and the 4:7s.

Johnathan
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Old 03-16-2002, 05:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have everything but the engine.

I have the correct R380 already put back together and just got the 1.22 LT230 put back together.

I am holding off until the last minute on buying the engine.

I think I am set on the 300TDi/R380, don't want to cut my galvy frame, I like the concept of the engine and those that have it and have driven it like it.

Has anyone here driven one and thought gee this sucks?

Looking at the combos some other people run with the TDi as far as highway:

John P is on 3.54*1.4*R380 with 35s

C.R. is on 4.1*1.2*R380 with 33s

Mike of ECR has 4.1*1.4*R380 with 35/36

So if I go 4.7*1.22*R380 with 35/36 I am right in line with ECR 1

I think thats what I am going to go with and if it is too steep for the highway I can put in the 1.003 LT230 after it gets rebuilt. That way I get to keep my rover rear pinion.

The closest rocks too me are pretty far away. Sure I will hit tellico with the rig but somehow I don't see too many trips out west.

Ron
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Old 03-16-2002, 07:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Dont know why some of you guys think the 300tdi is such a bad motor.

I think that in stock form they are a great motor.

If you want a bit more power for cheap move the turbo waste gate pressure feed from the turbo to the inlet manifold and give it a bit more fuel.

And if you want a heap more (50% more power and torque) then a company down here "John Davis Motor Works" puts a 200tdi exhaust manifold on them with a different turbo that runs the same amount of max boost with a lot less back pressure. (they also recalibrate the pump). They say this motor in a disco is quicker than the stock 3.9l petrol from a standing start and absolutely eats it in the hills.

What sort of motor is the 3.9 diesel that you guys are talking about. What sort of revs does it develop its power at, how much power. Carnt imagine that it would have more power than a 300tdi.

Sam
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Old 03-16-2002, 07:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Rover
What sort of motor is the 3.9 diesel that you guys are talking about. What sort of revs does it develop its power at, how much power. Carnt imagine that it would have more power than a 300tdi.

Sam
ha! stock 330 lb ft @1600, VERY EASILY tunable to 500 ft lbs plus since it shares a lot of parts with the much-loved Cummins 5.9 six thats used in the dodge trucks.

about 130hp at probably around 2400rpm if im not mistaken. ill find specs somewhere online. hey OldScout, wheres that link to the Scout II with the 4BT?
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Old 03-16-2002, 08:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 9-Volt


ha! stock 330 lb ft @1600, VERY EASILY tunable to 500 ft lbs plus since it shares a lot of parts with the much-loved Cummins 5.9 six thats used in the dodge trucks.

about 130hp at probably around 2400rpm if im not mistaken. ill find specs somewhere online. hey OldScout, wheres that link to the Scout II with the 4BT?
Sounds like I nice motor. Looks very similar to the Isuzu 3.9l 4bd1t that we get down here.

I can see that it would be a better motor than the 300tdi (you carnt beat cu inches) but both are still producing very similar horsepower (130hp vs 110hp) and as such would perform very similarly in the hills and acceleration.

Sam
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Old 03-16-2002, 08:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Rover
perform very similarly in the hills and acceleration.
i dunno about that... i think that the cummins would waste it. because torque is what gets something moving, hp is what KEEPS it moving.
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Old 03-16-2002, 08:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 9-Volt


i dunno about that... i think that the cummins would waste it. because torque is what gets something moving, hp is what KEEPS it moving.
As long as you have got enough gears to play with then the easiest way to compare motors is to look at power (and the power is very similar) If you want to start using the torque figures then you have to also consider the revs at which the torque is produced (a measure of this is the power = torque x revs)cause that determines how fast to can go in any gear (going up the same hill with the 300tdi oyu would be a gear lower for example)

So the speed at which you go up a hill will be similar because the power is similar. Because the 3.9 has so much more torque and it doesent rev as hard just means that you will be pushing taller gears and going about the same speed (ball park)

Sam
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Old 03-17-2002, 06:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ron,

I drive a stock geared 200 Tdi with 32's and its bloody slow.
I've already had the turbo tweaked and it didn't help much. If you go with a 300 Tdi you'll have to spent on big intercooler etc to get real go.
It also sounds like you've got a petrol R380 not a diesel one (lower first gear) which won't help
nuke this idea and get something big.

John D
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Old 03-17-2002, 10:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ditch all the: stinky, noisy, no starting in the winter, fuel gelling, no revving, freakishly narrow torque band, way overpriced, overweight diesels. This is America man the payback on the higher initial cost with your improved fuel economy is going to be about four lifetimes. Swap in at least 5.7 liters of injected American V8: Chevy, Dodge, Ford doesn't really matter which and be done with it. Back it up with a NV4500, a Richmond 6 speed, or a ZF 5 or 6 speed, Advance can adapt any of these to a lt230 with there own or a Mark's kit. A 380 is useful only as a method for converting precision parts into low grade scrap, unless you own a boat and need to stay in one place while you're fishing.

Last edited by SuperJ; 03-17-2002 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 03-18-2002, 09:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by evilfij
I have everything but the engine.


Looking at the combos some other people run with the TDi as far as highway:

John P is on 3.54*1.4*R380 with 35s

C.R. is on 4.1*1.2*R380 with 33s

Mike of ECR has 4.1*1.4*R380 with 35/36

So if I go 4.7*1.22*R380 with 35/36 I am right in line with ECR 1

I think thats what I am going to go with and if it is too steep for the highway I can put in the 1.003 LT230 after it gets rebuilt. That way I get to keep my rover rear pinion.

The closest rocks too me are pretty far away. Sure I will hit tellico with the rig but somehow I don't see too many trips out west.

Ron


Sounds good Ron. Keep in mind that while I'm quite happy with the highway performance of my D110 as it is currently set up, I'm going to be doing engine upgrades in the near future. (Allard stage III) This should give me the little extra I wanted to be more comfortable in the mountains. These guys are right when they say that the 300 Tdi doesn't have as much low end grunt as the cummins, but it is much smaller displacement and therefore is not expected to have as much torque.

I have enjoyed driving my 110 in all kinds of terrain and the only place I find it lacking is on rocks when I have to slide the clutch to ease up the rocks because the crawl isn't low enough. Of course, that was my problem in Las Cruses with my D90 as well, so I feel that the underdrive should work well with both rigs. I'm pretty sure that if anyone can grenade one of these new crawlerboxes, it'll be me in my D90 with the rimmer and 37s, so I'm not worried about durability of the setup on my D110. As far as the gearing combinations, I would suggest that you will be happiest with the 1.003 high range t-case with the 4.7 gears. This should give you road speed and then an appropriate low range.

And yes, I know I flaked on finding the 4.7s that I have in my boxes. I'll keep looking for them, but I have a feeling that they're buried where I can't get them for at least another few weeks. We're storing some stuff for a friend in my garage that I can't move right now.
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Old 03-18-2002, 09:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SuperJ
A 380 is useful only as a method for converting precision parts into low grade scrap, unless you own a boat and need to stay in one place while you're fishing.


Ok, so you made your point.. Actually, I agree. I'm actually quite good at using these R380s to make scrap steel. And I'm just storing my boat anchor under my truck at the moment in case I need it for later.

I love the 350 in many trucks and may end up with one in my rovers some day. However, for now, I like my stinky, smelly, slow, ALWAYS starts, fuel SIPPING, smoke out the tailgating A$$%&*es diesel in my D110.

And the Rimmer on my D90 makes that little 3.9 rover BUICK engine move so I can't complain. Maybe when this one blows up, I'll get a 350, or maybe a rover 4.6, or maybe a diesel conversion is in order so I can enjoy smoking out more people on the road! I certainly do like all the power and cheap servicability of the 350 though... hmm.... Oh well..

Ron, Stick with the 300 Tdi for now. You'll love it!

-John
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Old 03-18-2002, 08:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey John,

I missed you by one day!

I was at spuce cabin on Sunday.

Had I known you and Bill B would have been there on Sat I would have driven up then and stayed over.

I managed to take out the LR fender and glass in the disco.

don't ask, the tree came out of no where There is a pic on discoweb. Oh well, 80 bucks for the glass and some time with a 2x4 and hammer and it will be somewhat strait again.

I did have some fun on the rocks though. I will go back with the series or the 110 when I get it finished and go crawling on the "big" rocks that I saw.

I am set on the 4.7s and TDi. Go for the gusto with the gears. My R380 is out of a 300TDi 110 so I have the lower gears in that. Yes I knwo it sucks but I can tolerate weak trannies.

Ron

PS I actually need the 4.7 gears AND a carrier from the same so we can talk. No rush
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Old 03-18-2002, 10:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by evilfij


I managed to take out the LR fender and glass in the disco.

don't ask, the tree came out of no where

Ron

Saw the picture of your truck, that's just what I said when it happened to me...............................

Marty
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Old 03-18-2002, 10:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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http://www.discoweb.org/discus/messa...tml?1016519158

In case anyone else wants to see what I did to the wife's (alyssa) disco


I am on my way to making it look like Marty's disco

Ron
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Old 03-19-2002, 10:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by evilfij

I am set on the 4.7s and TDi. Go for the gusto with the gears. My R380 is out of a 300TDi 110 so I have the lower gears in that. Yes I knwo it sucks but I can tolerate weak trannies.

Ron

PS I actually need the 4.7 gears AND a carrier from the same so we can talk. No rush
Glad you're staying with the 300 Tdi...

Anyway.. Gotta dig out the 4.7s and carrier. You want open carrier or ARB? I got both!! Just gotta find them in my pile of crap in the garage..

-John
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Old 03-20-2002, 12:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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** snipped **

Looking at the combos some other people run with the TDi as far as highway:

John P is on 3.54*1.4*R380 with 35s

C.R. is on 4.1*1.2*R380 with 33s

Mike of ECR has 4.1*1.4*R380 with 35/36

So if I go 4.7*1.22*R380 with 35/36 I am right in line with ECR 1
Ron
I've got the 200tdi, stock gearing and 35". I can still do 80mph on the level, 85 with a tail wind. 0 engine mods. Anyone who wants to drop over and have a drive, let me know.

Merv.
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Old 03-20-2002, 01:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm running R380, 300Tdi, 1.4 transfer, 4.1:1 CW&P with 35"'s and pulls like a train,

has almost slightly lower than stock gearing now.

Jamie
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