Saginaw pump on a RRC 3.9L

[lwg]

Before anyone yells search, I did! So I came across a deal on a rockstomper 1.5" ram that I couldn't pass up. So now I plan on doing a ram assist conversion before the end of February. The obvious weak link will be the Rover PS Pump. I am thinking I should go ahead and do the Saginaw conversion while it's winter and there isn't much wheeling to be had in CO.

All of the conversion info is regarding discovery style engines where the PS pump is up top on the right (facing engine). I have an alternator there and my pump is below, no way to mount a pump with an integrated reservoir. So I am left with the non-reservoir pump. Fine, now I was wondering if anyone has built this bracket before so I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel...

If not, I suppose I'll do it myself.

Also, what are the effects of having a larger pulley on a PS pump and running it at highway RPM's? Any chance of blowing too much pressure?

[madcowdungbeetle]

Originally Posted by lwg

Before anyone yells search, I did! So I came across a deal on a rockstomper 1.5" ram that I couldn't pass up. So now I plan on doing a ram assist conversion before the end of February. The obvious weak link will be the Rover PS Pump. I am thinking I should go ahead and do the Saginaw conversion while it's winter and there isn't much wheeling to be had in CO.

All of the conversion info is regarding discovery style engines where the PS pump is up top on the right (facing engine). I have an alternator there and my pump is below, no way to mount a pump with an integrated reservoir. So I am left with the non-reservoir pump. Fine, now I was wondering if anyone has built this bracket before so I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel...

If not, I suppose I'll do it myself.

Also, what are the effects of having a larger pulley on a PS pump and running it at highway RPM's? Any chance of blowing too much pressure?

What does your bracket for the factory pump look like? If I'm not mistake if you mill out the rib on the Disco 3.9 bracket, you can fit a Type II Saginaw pump. Revor made a post about it on here.

The pully shouldn't effect the output pressure of the pump, that's effected by the piston, the pully effects the flow rate of the pump. To up the flow rate, which is what you want for hydro, you'd want a smaller pully.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle

What does your bracket for the factory pump look like? If I'm not mistake if you mill out the rib on the Disco 3.9 bracket, you can fit a Type II Saginaw pump. Revor made a post about it on here.

The pully shouldn't effect the output pressure of the pump, that's effected by the piston, the pully effects the flow rate of the pump. To up the flow rate, which is what you want for hydro, you'd want a smaller pully.

Here is a pic of the PS Pump for a Rangie. As I am at work, I don't have a pic of the bracket. I stole this pic off of eBay. Sorry for the plagerism.

This is mounted directly below the Alternator on a Rangie. I have seen Keith's Saginaw conversion in person. I like it, I just can't put the PS pump there as the alternator is in that exact location on my truck. Thus I have to go with the Saginaw TC pump(reservoir-less), I think...



Also you mentioned a smaller pulley would increase the pump flow rate? This seems counterintuitive. I would think a larger pulley would increase pulley speed, thus increasing pump output.

[pm]

Large pulley on the pump will decrease the pump rotation rate.

It was nice to see your face in LRM, Larry.

[madcowdungbeetle]

Originally Posted by lwg

Here is a pic of the PS Pump for a Rangie. As I am at work, I don't have a pic of the bracket. I stole this pic off of eBay. Sorry for the plagerism.

This is mounted directly below the Alternator on a Rangie. I have seen Keith's Saginaw conversion in person. I like it, I just can't put the PS pump there as the alternator is in that exact location on my truck. Thus I have to go with the Saginaw TC pump(reservoir-less), I think...



Also you mentioned a smaller pulley would increase the pump flow rate? This seems counterintuitive. I would think a larger pulley would increase pulley speed, thus increasing pump output.

Think about the pully thing like this. Say you're running 6.17 gears in your axles..... Which tires would give you more RPM's in 4th gear, 31's or 42's?

As far as the pump goes, just run the reservoirless Saginaw pump with an larger aftermarket reservoir and cooler. You get better heat dissipation, more fluid capacity.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by pm

It was nice to see your face in LRM, Larry.

I guess I had better pick up an issue of LRM... Which month?

I hope I wasn't listed as a lost child, or wanted by the FBI again?

[lwg]

Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle

As far as the pump goes, just run the reservoirless Saginaw pump with an larger aftermarket reservoir and cooler. You get better heat dissipation, more fluid capacity.

That's what I'm thinking. I already have the PS cooler, need to replace the plastic crappy Rover Reservoir with a steel or AL unit.


edit: After reading Billavista's article on hydro steering I discovered that the "P" series Sadinaw pump comes without the reservoir as well. This is the pump that Keith used for the Disco conversion. I'm gonna price one out at Autozone tonight or tomorrow and maybe starting working on a bracket this weekend or next.

[ibex]

Originally Posted by lwg

...... need to replace the plastic crappy Rover Reservoir with a steel or AL unit.

Land Rover went away from steel reservoirs to plastic due to vibration induced work hardening causing failures, total fluid loss and in turn pump failure, as the pump relies on the pas fluid for lubrication....moral - don't fit a l/r steel ressy or mount on shock mounts

[revor]

Forcing the hand huh Larry?
Here's what I know about these pumps... The RRC/ Defender V8 Vee belt type pump does not have a "direct" bolt in replacement like the Serp cars. The Sag t2 pumps actually bolt to the Serp pump plate and this makes that a very easy upgrade. The D90 pump has the same three bolts to mount it to a bracket but the bolt circle of this pattern is different from the later pumps being a bit smaller.. A guy may be able to make a new mounting face for the pump bracket, remove the mounting face from the stock bracket and weld the new one on with success I just haven't gotten that far with it. Another thing to consider is that with the after market T2 pumps there are several port configurations... Inlet down with the presure port to the right or inlet down with the PP to the left.. Obviously you can clock the pump how you like... The next problem is the crazy pulley of the Vee belt Rovers with the Serp style belt to the alternator going around that silly idler thing on the PS Pulley. This would require that you reuse this pulley... To do that you need to make a pully mounting flange that will press onto the new pump shaft.. Easy enough, most of the pumps these days have a 3/4" inch press on pulley.. I'm pretty sure that you can get the proper alignment of the pulleys with a Sag T2 but I am not sure..

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by lwg

edit: After reading Billavista's article on hydro steering I discovered that the "P" series Sadinaw pump comes without the reservoir as well. This is the pump that Keith used for the Disco conversion. I'm gonna price one out at Autozone tonight or tomorrow and maybe starting working on a bracket this weekend or next.

Larry,
not sure if its the same pump, but 84-89 GMCs with the 6.2 use a divorced pump. When viewed from the front of the vehicle rotation direction is clockwise.

As to your photo, NOV 2005 LRM has two articles re-National Rally. Small photo of you up on stage during the rafle in one of those. Articles are pretty good. One by Norm, one by Steve. Ought to see if you are allowed to "copy" them for the club news letter.

Pete

[Michael Rangie]

Cant help with mounting one to rover engine.

but this is where mine sits.

works well with RR steering box.

[TOAdisco311]

Bringing this back to the top....

Can anyone tell me some specific information about these T2 pumps. Like what vehicles they came out of ect...Has anyone else installed one of these things?

[darkstar]

There are probably several that fit, but one TC style pump that fits for sure is from a S10, 4 cylinder. Napa part # NSP 20874. Bolts right in, although the inlet/outlet positions are a bit different. easy enough to work around.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by darkstar

There are probably several that fit, but one TC style pump that fits for sure is from a S10, 4 cylinder. Napa part # NSP 20874. Bolts right in, although the inlet/outlet positions are a bit different. easy enough to work around.

It bolts right into a discovery, not a Range Rover. It's a bitch to fit a TC style pump in a RRC, or anything other than the stock piece of crap.

But, it sure kicks ass now!

[darkstar]

according to his sig (and his user name) he has a discovery..

what did you finally wind up putting in yours Larry?

[lwg]

Originally Posted by darkstar

according to his sig (and his user name) he has a discovery..

what did you finally wind up putting in yours Larry?

A PSC pump. Works like a charm, especially with a 1.5" ram attached to the steering arm! This time after running Indy I didn't hurt for two days from having to fight the steering...

[Velocewest]

Originally Posted by lwg;

A PSC pump.

PSC? Please to expand the TLA, por favor?

[lwg]

Originally Posted by Velocewest

PSC? Please to expand the TLA, por favor?

Well here goes. This is not an easy mod per se. Basically you have to cut the end off of the stock adjustment bracket and extend it about 1". Then purchase a PSC "TC" Style pump with the suction port on the right-hand side, this is the opposite of every pump found through your local car parts store. Then, have all the custom hoses made up to attach this pump to your box and reservoir. Now that you've done that, reverse the double pully that currently resides on your PS pump as this is the only way it will fit on the shorter necked TC pump, you will resuse the PS pump adapter found on your stock pump.

There you go, simple!

I actually have pics of all this stuff and had planned on writing it up eventually but have been too busy trying to get some product ready for the rally.

[Jtisdale]

Pendy has crafted a bracket, version 3.0, that works with this same PSC TC pump on the 3.9. Still need custom length hoses but it runs on a standard pulley. I would recommend using a larger reservoir and a cooler, which I have sitting on my bench but haven't installed. My res is probably twice the volume of the stock one and it still gets hot. I may be able to dig up some pics soon.

Tis

[lwg]

I went ahead and added the PSC reservoir and a massive PS cooler. Temps only see about 140* when it's 100* outside. Seems to work pretty awesome. The advantage of running the pulley backwards is that it speeds up the PS pump at lower RPM's. The disadvantage is that it slows down the alternator and thus your Tachometer shows no RPM's at idle...

All in all I'm really happy with it. I would love to see the bracket that Pendy made up though.