How many Rover guys are biodieselers/ SVO guys...

[dieselcruiserhead]

I don't know if it helps but I have been into biodiesel in particular for years now, and volunteer as the director of the Utah group over 200 members, very large group, and one of the big reasons I do diesel swaps too.. Probably have well over 20K miles on bio I figure, most with the Cummins 4BTs, some 6ATs, and Toy diesels... I do have some WVO experience, brewing of course, and have put together a few home made SVO dual tank conversions... I do think its a neat combo, old trucks and diesels and biodiesels, seems to only be gaining popularity.. For the reasons Pendy mentioned and then some more too... Seems like there are a lot of Cruisers going over to diesel for bio as well, particularly wagons it seems...

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by pendy

There is a difference between SVO and WVO. The SVO is untainted. Where the WVO often contains animal fat. With the animal fat comes the acid which is as much a problem as the water that comes with poor storage of WVO.

Pendy & others are you using mostly rendered oil and/or what are your processes for getting decent oil out of curiosity... Don't know if it helps but one of the original greasel guys (Perry Pillard) is a cruiserhead who I've met a couple times, put a Cummins 6BT in a 55, daily drives it, lives in Texas. He used to have(?) a '69 International delivery truck he converted into a "camper" V8 naturally aspirated Detroit I believe and carried around all sorts of contraptions for filtering and collecting oil right on the spot. Very smart but I couldn't imagine carrying all of that stuff around on a rig or something that you want to keep halfway clean LOL. Biodiesel is a PITA to brew but I still do it, buy it as well. Recently becoming more and more available here and luckily cheaper than diesel almost guaranteed especially the last year.. For me jury is still out on SVO even biodiesel to an extent. I am not saying I am not a fan, just curious to hear some of your tactics (addressed to no one in particular) and experiences for collecting/cleaning etc. Currently I haul around even 80 gallons of bio for different trips. I suppose that could be SVO too Craig if you or anyone else is interested I sold the last 55 in June and am doing a 4BT/NV5600/Dana 300 in a 55 on a 80 frame with factory coils/axles/lockers.. Buildup is here, probably about 1/2 through of what I figure is a year long project.. Goal of course again is specifically to run bio as well... Best, Andre

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=92355

[Leafsprung]

Plant Driver: Which part exactly is from that series pictured on the RH site?

JL: Rainbows are pretty.

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER

Most of the people here have problems with fuel filter clogging the first time they switch to bio - anyone have similar experiences in the US?

If you are taking a vehicle that has run dinodiesel for a long time and converting to biodiesel you will need to change out the filters more often, at the begining. BD is a solvent that will clean out your tank.
There are also cases where you need to change the softlines. Changing the fuel lines is a one time thing.
Most folks that are running BD in the 6.2/6.5 have had to do anywhere from 1-4 filter changes about every 1000 miles.
There haven't been any issues with the fuel sender, lift pump, or IP.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by aloharover

Most folks that are running BD in the 6.2/6.5 have had to do anywhere from 1-4 filter changes about every 1000 miles.
There haven't been any issues with the fuel sender, lift pump, or IP.

Wow! That's bad. When I started running it in my 7.3L I just changed the fuel filter the first couple of oil changes, about every 5-7K. Since then I am back on a normal schedule about every 20K.

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by lwg

Wow! That's bad. When I started running it in my 7.3L I just changed the fuel filter the first couple of oil changes, about every 5-7K. Since then I am back on a normal schedule about every 20K.

After running dinodiesel for 15+ years changing a couple filters isn't that bad. Remember the 6.2 came out in 82 model year going on 25 years now.

[pendy]

There is a product on Ebay I would like to see sold in the USA and maybe even developed a bit more. It is a filter with a cleaning mesh. similar to the LR sedimentors, but a lot more surface area. I have seen a USA ebay vendor producing one for filtering oil to make Bio also that uses a hydraulic system filter that is cleanable also.

A filter like this could help complete how I would like to make a two tank system work. The Vormax filer assembly Plant Drive uses are very effective also. But this prefilter in my mind helps deal with the larger accumulations that tend to clog systems and could be cleaned without replacing a filter media.

As far as collecting oil. Its the role of the dice as far as I am concerned.

JP

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by pendy

As far as collecting oil. Its the role of the dice as far as I am concerned.

JP

No lie. I have only checked a couple places so far, but no luck.

Regarding the filters I picked up some stainless steel 5 micron filters from a buddy a couple ears ago. The filter element is cleanable, you don't exchange them. I will try and post a couple photos tonight.

[PTSchram]

My friends in Portland are opening a restaurant and have asked me concerning converting their RRC to diesel due to their having a source of "used" cooking oil.

From the perspective of the generator, I can see why they would be concerned about giving used oil away. In spite of it being a non-DOT, non-hazardous, non-regulated material and a non-hazardous waste, if you were to take it from them and spill it on the way home causing significant problems, they would still be liable under current environmental regulations (it is still an oil and the 40 CFR 110 /112 regs apply). Also, most of the disposal companies set generators up on a regular schedule to collect their used oil. If you say you're gonna take it, and they drop their current vendor, the restaurant could easily end up in a situation where they have a bunch of oil that needs to go away and nowhere to put it and no one to take it, were you to miscalculate your usage estimates.

Were I a restaurateur, I would think long and hard about giving my used oil away, in spite of an economic benefit.

Just another perspective.

[aloharover]

So how much does the rest pay for the oil to begin with?

I have found a source for oil for .95$ a gallon. Not counting the electricity it runs about .40-.50 per gallon to convert. So the big question is how much BD do you get from 100 gals of oil?

[PTSchram]

Originally Posted by aloharover

So how much does the rest pay for the oil to begin with?

Virgin or used? I'm sure cost is tied to volume bought.

When I was doing the environmental thing, the least I could find ethical companies to take it away for was about $0.45/gallon. OTOH, I've seen contaminated oils cost $100s/gallon to dispose of.

Safety-Kleen didn't have the best pricing, nor did they have the best compliance record, but man, did they have cool uses for everything that came out of it. Everything from Wal-Mart lubricating oil to road building asphalt, to power plant fuel.

[dieselcruiserhead]

This is a big deal here in Utah, we even made it on NPR because of it... It is considered hazardous waste in Salt Lake County and is regulated. Almost completely stopped most brewing in actual salt lake city... There is some liability, some of the grease renderers won't even sell to biodiesel because of safety/liability issues.. After a lunch with them a couple weeks ago where we discussed it in person I actually see their side of the story to an extent...

[aloharover]

Sorry, I meant how much do restuarants pay for their oil...new stuff, to use in cooking.

[pendy]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

This is a big deal here in Utah, we even made it on NPR because of it... It is considered hazardous waste in Salt Lake County and is regulated. Almost completely stopped most brewing in actual salt lake city... There is some liability, some of the grease renderers won't even sell to biodiesel because of safety/liability issues.. After a lunch with them a couple weeks ago where we discussed it in person I actually see their side of the story to an extent...

The answer is for you all to take a bond out and collect the oil as a business. Start a Co-Op and continue to charge for picking up the used oil. Double dip.

JP

[PlantDriver]

New soy at Costco is about $2.60/gallon, and that's about what most restaurants pay to have it delivered. Soy's the cheapest, Canola's a bit more, peanut even more.

Craig

[PTSchram]

Originally Posted by pendy

The answer is for you all to take a bond out and collect the oil as a business. Start a Co-Op and continue to charge for picking up the used oil. Double dip.

JP

Pretty much how all the disposal companies handle it. You pay them to haul it away and they sell ALL of the by-products.

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by PlantDriver

New soy at Costco is about $2.60/gallon, and that's about what most restaurants pay to have it delivered. Soy's the cheapest, Canola's a bit more, peanut even more.

Craig

So the .96$ a gallon is a good deal. But you are buying it at 250 gallon lots.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by pendy

The answer is for you all to take a bond out and collect the oil as a business. Start a Co-Op and continue to charge for picking up the used oil. Double dip.

JP

Almost sounds like you have been following the debate. This is actually something we have strongly been considering. First we were actually trying to partner with one or some of the renderers to get a tank in SLC that they would fill, clean and legal. If nothing can be worked out then it looks like this is the next step. Will take some funds though, trucks / infrastructure etc.. It requires a $1 million bond to get the permit but it actually isn't too bad to acquire. the next step is a lot of liability and rules relating to home brewing. In a perfect world our coop would actually have a biodiesel brewing center with equipment that members could come in and use. We are looking strongly at that too, with the biggest hurdle being raising the money as well.

[roverhybrids]

Originally Posted by aloharover

So the .96$ a gallon is a good deal. But you are buying it at 250 gallon lots.

becareful who/what you are buying. If you are getting it from a renderer you may be sorry as they generally have skanky oil with high water content and high in animal fats(read smelly, rancid, hard to filter)
And when they say it is filtered and dewatered they are exaggerating!

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by roverhybrids

becareful who/what you are buying. If you are getting it from a renderer you may be sorry as they generally have skanky oil with high water content and high in animal fats(read smelly, rancid, hard to filter)
And when they say it is filtered and dewatered they are exaggerating!

But that doesn't matter as much if you are making BD right?

[Keith Armstrong]

Originally Posted by pendy

Double dip.

Ahem, Jimmy meant to say "vertical integration of your enterprise." He'd never use a phrase that might have a negative connotation

[PTSchram]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

Almost sounds like you have been following the debate. This is actually something we have strongly been considering. First we were actually trying to partner with one or some of the renderers to get a tank in SLC that they would fill, clean and legal. If nothing can be worked out then it looks like this is the next step. Will take some funds though, trucks / infrastructure etc.. It requires a $1 million bond to get the permit but it actually isn't too bad to acquire. the next step is a lot of liability and rules relating to home brewing. In a perfect world our coop would actually have a biodiesel brewing center with equipment that members could come in and use. We are looking strongly at that too, with the biggest hurdle being raising the money as well.

Too bad this is in SLC as I know someone who is knowledgeable in obtaining permits and engineering of such facilities. I know him REAL well Sadly, this gentleman's wife will not consider relocating...

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by aloharover

But that doesn't matter as much if you are making BD right?

It actually does, water is a big deal and can ruin the reaction, and you can process out of oils with high free fatty acid content but it is a PITA. Best are Asian / Mexican restaurants that do not cook a lot of frozen breaded foods... So yes, it matters..

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

It actually does, water is a big deal and can ruin the reaction, and you can process out of oils with high free fatty acid content but it is a PITA. Best are Asian / Mexican restaurants that do not cook a lot of frozen breaded foods... So yes, it matters..

Cool, thank you.
Obviously I am still in the research stage.

[PTSchram]

Water can be removed by many processes, but it lengthens your time and increases costs.