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Old 04-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #251 (permalink)
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...this needs to be taken all the way to the Supreme Court.

I agree with you Bebe.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:47 AM   #252 (permalink)
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The only thing that would hold me back is being compared to all those long haired hippies in the city...
We could occupy in Khaki's and Polo's
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:17 AM   #253 (permalink)
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The only thing that would hold me back is being compared to all those long haired hippies in the city...
I know I sure hate being compared to long haired hippies.................

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We could occupy in Khaki's and Polo's
Suits and ties, and the wimmens in heels
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:23 AM   #254 (permalink)
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I know I sure hate being compared to long haired hippies.................
:kisses:
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #255 (permalink)
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I agree with you Bebe.
I agree also, some of my favorite trails and others on my "bucket list" are on the closure list. But as noted lawsuits cost money.
I give money to legal funds when I can and I volunteer my time as much as possible to work weekends.
I am not the best or brightest when it comes to legal matters. The greenies are continually suing to get their way. Again, all of these lawsuits cost money. Just an idea I had last night. How many Pirate members and outdoor enthusiasts do these closures affect? How many can spare $1, $5 or $10 a month? I am by no means rich but I could pass on a coffee, lunch or dinner out to try and help the legal cause.
Question is who should I donate to?
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:24 AM   #256 (permalink)
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Question is who should I donate to?
sadly, that is the golden question.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #257 (permalink)
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I give $1000 or more per year to BlueRibbon Coalition, every year, but I'm willing to give more if I know they're actively attacking this issue.

Sadly, "playing by the rules" seems to have gotten us nowhere. The anti-access groups have clearly demonstrated that environmental protection is NOT their goal; out-and-out closure is the only thing they're willing to settle for. Every time we agree to compromise, all we're doing is handing them another victory.

With that said, we need to stop backing up, making concessions, and giving in. We need to stop playing nice and being defensive. As much as we hate the anti-access groups, we could learn a lot from them because they've perfected the art of getting what they want from public land managers and courts of law. We need BRC or a new organization to start over with a new strategy, doing what the anti-access groups do: make money for the organization by actively suing the government for these illegal takings of our public lands and our rights-of-way, not taking "no" for an answer on anything, all while portraying a "green" image to the public.

We are, after all, the true environmentalists. We are veterans, mothers & fathers, Eagle Scouts, volunteers, patriots, and model citizens. We need to get the word out about that so we have public sympathy on our side, instead of continuing to allow the anti-access groups to paint an inaccurate picture of us and swaying public opinion against us.

The selfish & hypocritical anti-access groups are the scum of the Earth, yet we're the ones who get a bad rap? What's wrong with this picture?

Public land is for ALL of the public, not just a select few elitists. We've already handed the holier-than-thou groups exclusive access to over 1/3 of Eldorado National Forest with the Desolation and Mokolumne Wilderness Areas. They have unrestricted access to the entire ENF, yet the <1% of the forest floor upon which we could legally place our tires was still too much for them, so they took 2300 miles of our trails last time around. Now we have nothing left but the Rubicon Trail, but only because they couldn't include it in the legal wrangling this time around.

You better bet the Rubicon is next.

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Old 04-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #258 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RockMolester View Post
I give $1000 or more per year to BlueRibbon Coalition, every year, but I'm willing to give more if I know they're actively attacking this issue.

Sadly, "playing by the rules" seems to have gotten us nowhere. The anti-access groups have clearly demonstrated that environmental protection is NOT their goal; out-and-out closure is the only thing they're willing to settle for. Every time we agree to compromise, all we're doing is handing them another victory.

With that said, we need to stop backing up, making concessions, and giving in. We need to stop playing nice and being defensive. As much as we hate the anti-access groups, we could learn a lot from them because they've perfected the art of getting what they want from public land managers and courts of law. We need BRC or a new organization to start over with a new strategy, doing what the anti-access groups do: make money for the organization by actively suing the government for these illegal takings of our public lands and our rights-of-way, not taking "no" for an answer on anything, all while portraying a "green" image to the public.

We are, after all, the true environmentalists. We are veterans, mothers & fathers, Eagle Scouts, volunteers, patriots, and model citizens. We need to get the word out about that so we have public sympathy on our side, instead of continuing to allow the anti-access groups to paint an inaccurate picture of us and swaying public opinion against us.

The selfish & hypocritical anti-access groups are the scum of the Earth, yet we're the ones who get a bad rap? What's wrong with this picture?

Public land is for ALL of the public, not just a select few elitists. We've already handed the holier-than-thou groups exclusive access to over 1/3 of Eldorado National Forest with the Desolation and Mokolumne Wilderness Areas. They have unrestricted access to the entire ENF, yet the <1% of the forest floor upon which we could legally place our tires was still too much for them, so they took 2300 miles of our trails last time around. Now we have nothing left but the Rubicon Trail, but only because they couldn't include it in the legal wrangling this time around.

You better bet the Rubicon is next.
Agreed!
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:25 AM   #259 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockmolester View Post
i give $1000 or more per year to blueribbon coalition, every year, but i'm willing to give more if i know they're actively attacking this issue.

Sadly, "playing by the rules" seems to have gotten us nowhere. The anti-access groups have clearly demonstrated that environmental protection is not their goal; out-and-out closure is the only thing they're willing to settle for. Every time we agree to compromise, all we're doing is handing them another victory.

With that said, we need to stop backing up, making concessions, and giving in. We need to stop playing nice and being defensive. As much as we hate the anti-access groups, we could learn a lot from them because they've perfected the art of getting what they want from public land managers and courts of law. We need brc or a new organization to start over with a new strategy, doing what the anti-access groups do: Make money for the organization by actively suing the government for these illegal takings of our public lands and our rights-of-way, not taking "no" for an answer on anything, all while portraying a "green" image to the public.

We are, after all, the true environmentalists. We are veterans, mothers & fathers, eagle scouts, volunteers, patriots, and model citizens. We need to get the word out about that so we have public sympathy on our side, instead of continuing to allow the anti-access groups to paint an inaccurate picture of us and swaying public opinion against us.

The selfish & hypocritical anti-access groups are the scum of the earth, yet we're the ones who get a bad rap? What's wrong with this picture?

Public land is for all of the public, not just a select few elitists. We've already handed the holier-than-thou groups exclusive access to over 1/3 of eldorado national forest with the desolation and mokolumne wilderness areas. They have unrestricted access to the entire enf, yet the <1% of the forest floor upon which we could legally place our tires was still too much for them, so they took 2300 miles of our trails last time around. Now we have nothing left but the rubicon trail, but only because they couldn't include it in the legal wrangling this time around.

You better bet the rubicon is next.
bravo!!!!!
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:17 PM   #260 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockMolester View Post
I give $1000 or more per year to BlueRibbon Coalition, every year, but I'm willing to give more if I know they're actively attacking this issue.

Sadly, "playing by the rules" seems to have gotten us nowhere. The anti-access groups have clearly demonstrated that environmental protection is NOT their goal; out-and-out closure is the only thing they're willing to settle for. Every time we agree to compromise, all we're doing is handing them another victory.

With that said, we need to stop backing up, making concessions, and giving in. We need to stop playing nice and being defensive. As much as we hate the anti-access groups, we could learn a lot from them because they've perfected the art of getting what they want from public land managers and courts of law. We need BRC or a new organization to start over with a new strategy, doing what the anti-access groups do: make money for the organization by actively suing the government for these illegal takings of our public lands and our rights-of-way, not taking "no" for an answer on anything, all while portraying a "green" image to the public.

We are, after all, the true environmentalists. We are veterans, mothers & fathers, Eagle Scouts, volunteers, patriots, and model citizens. We need to get the word out about that so we have public sympathy on our side, instead of continuing to allow the anti-access groups to paint an inaccurate picture of us and swaying public opinion against us.

The selfish & hypocritical anti-access groups are the scum of the Earth, yet we're the ones who get a bad rap? What's wrong with this picture?

Public land is for ALL of the public, not just a select few elitists. We've already handed the holier-than-thou groups exclusive access to over 1/3 of Eldorado National Forest with the Desolation and Mokolumne Wilderness Areas. They have unrestricted access to the entire ENF, yet the <1% of the forest floor upon which we could legally place our tires was still too much for them, so they took 2300 miles of our trails last time around. Now we have nothing left but the Rubicon Trail, but only because they couldn't include it in the legal wrangling this time around.

You better bet the Rubicon is next.
Spot on!

If they were REALLY worried about enviromental damage.. go after the Logging companies in Eldo. Just one of their tracked vehicles (That can go off routes) does WAY more damage to the forest floor than 100 of our rigs EVER would.

Pissed about water quality because of leaked engine fluids? How much oil, ATF, gear oil etc. flows off HWY 50 right into the water?

I saw a document for "Burning Man" once. It listed how many dilapidated vehicles there leak oil onto the desert floor... but the report said that was OK becuase the OIL evaporates in the sun and does not sink into the dirt.

Apparently they give thier own people a free pass...

Keep Tahoe Blue? How about closing all the ski resorts then? I guess it's ok to rip a bunch of trees out of the ground and leave a massive clearcut on a hill by a lake as long as people can ski down it.

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Old 04-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #261 (permalink)
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Angry Wtf? Nfw!

Any articles or links to an official press release from the Eldorado NF advising these trails are closed?

I am madder than hell and want to know what we are going to do.

We are slowly, systematically being locked out of our Forest. When is enough, enough and folks step up to fight to keep our way of life?
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:57 PM   #262 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RockMolester View Post
I give $1000 or more per year to BlueRibbon Coalition, every year, but I'm willing to give more if I know they're actively attacking this issue.

Sadly, "playing by the rules" seems to have gotten us nowhere. The anti-access groups have clearly demonstrated that environmental protection is NOT their goal; out-and-out closure is the only thing they're willing to settle for. Every time we agree to compromise, all we're doing is handing them another victory.

With that said, we need to stop backing up, making concessions, and giving in. We need to stop playing nice and being defensive. As much as we hate the anti-access groups, we could learn a lot from them because they've perfected the art of getting what they want from public land managers and courts of law. We need BRC or a new organization to start over with a new strategy, doing what the anti-access groups do: make money for the organization by actively suing the government for these illegal takings of our public lands and our rights-of-way, not taking "no" for an answer on anything, all while portraying a "green" image to the public.

We are, after all, the true environmentalists. We are veterans, mothers & fathers, Eagle Scouts, volunteers, patriots, and model citizens. We need to get the word out about that so we have public sympathy on our side, instead of continuing to allow the anti-access groups to paint an inaccurate picture of us and swaying public opinion against us.

The selfish & hypocritical anti-access groups are the scum of the Earth, yet we're the ones who get a bad rap? What's wrong with this picture?

Public land is for ALL of the public, not just a select few elitists. We've already handed the holier-than-thou groups exclusive access to over 1/3 of Eldorado National Forest with the Desolation and Mokolumne Wilderness Areas. They have unrestricted access to the entire ENF, yet the <1% of the forest floor upon which we could legally place our tires was still too much for them, so they took 2300 miles of our trails last time around. Now we have nothing left but the Rubicon Trail, but only because they couldn't include it in the legal wrangling this time around.

You better bet the Rubicon is next.
^^^This!

Well said RM!
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:26 PM   #263 (permalink)
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You know what I think the worst part is, aside from these anti's suing and wasting millions of tax dollars, is a lot of the common folks don't even know any of this stuff is happening. For example at work I speak with hunters, fishermen, backpackers, dirt bikers, campers, and whomever and they know nothing about these closures. They know nothing about the legal proceedings that are happening. They know nothing about these anti-access crazies creating fraudulent stories about "4x4 machines destroying the environment" by driving on designated USFS trails. They know nothing about the hundreds of volunteer hours that are put in each summer to keep trails safe and clean. They know nothing about the tens of thousands of dollars being spent by us and the organizations to keep these trails open. I try and educate my fellow outdoor enthusiasts that I come in contact with about what is happening. Unfortunately don't get it and they seem to have a "it will never happen" attitude towards the idea of not being able to drive/ride out to their favorite hunting or fishing spot. I over heard one guy at work telling a story about a hunting trip he was on. He basically said he was riding his quad to his favorite spot when he came to a gate on the road. He said he thought to himself, "there was never a gate there before." He then proceeded to ride the quad around the gate. I asked him if he knew anything about the forest service road closures happening. He said he knew nothing about it. My point is people don't know!!! We are all well aware of what is going on but the average person that may only use the forest once or maybe twice a year is oblivious to the bigger picture here.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:08 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Ted Gaines is having a Town Hall meeting in Auburn, tonight at 6PM at the Placer County Board of Supervisors chambers.

I'm planning on attending...and doing my best to at least make this known to him or at worst, remind him.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #265 (permalink)
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You know what I think the worst part is, aside from these anti's suing and wasting millions of tax dollars, is a lot of the common folks don't even know any of this stuff is happening. For example at work I speak with hunters, fishermen, backpackers, dirt bikers, campers, and whomever and they know nothing about these closures. They know nothing about the legal proceedings that are happening. They know nothing about these anti-access crazies creating fraudulent stories about "4x4 machines destroying the environment" by driving on designated USFS trails. They know nothing about the hundreds of volunteer hours that are put in each summer to keep trails safe and clean. They know nothing about the tens of thousands of dollars being spent by us and the organizations to keep these trails open. I try and educate my fellow outdoor enthusiasts that I come in contact with about what is happening. Unfortunately don't get it and they seem to have a "it will never happen" attitude towards the idea of not being able to drive/ride out to their favorite hunting or fishing spot. I over heard one guy at work telling a story about a hunting trip he was on. He basically said he was riding his quad to his favorite spot when he came to a gate on the road. He said he thought to himself, "there was never a gate there before." He then proceeded to ride the quad around the gate. I asked him if he knew anything about the forest service road closures happening. He said he knew nothing about it. My point is people don't know!!! We are all well aware of what is going on but the average person that may only use the forest once or maybe twice a year is oblivious to the bigger picture here.
I hear ya..........I am having to tell people in El Dorado County this has happened.and I LIVE IN MARYLAND!!
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:00 PM   #266 (permalink)
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Ted Gaines is having a Town Hall meeting in Auburn, tonight at 6PM at the Placer County Board of Supervisors chambers.

I'm planning on attending...and doing my best to at least make this known to him or at worst, remind him.
Thanks Ken!
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #267 (permalink)
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I hear ya..........I am having to tell people in El Dorado County this has happened.and I LIVE IN MARYLAND!!
Ya, no kidding! We need to get a spokes person and put them all over the locals news. Get this out in the public's eyes. There has to be someone out there that can step up and help.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:12 PM   #268 (permalink)
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Don Amador is doing a great job getting press, we just need to help him by supporting the articles he gets out there with comments . . .

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...l-plans/396491
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:42 PM   #269 (permalink)
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Ya, no kidding! We need to get a spokes person and put them all over the locals news. Get this out in the public's eyes. There has to be someone out there that can step up and help.
I agree. I feel if we could get the word out to the general public first about what we are about and the avenues we've been taking to be responsible out in our forests I feel we won't look like the bad people here. We could get before and after pictures and/or video of what we have accomplished, whether it be preservation and/or restoration. Tell the general public these anti's are suing the USFS costing millions of tax payer dollars just to keep the general public out of the forests and in reality only permitting a small group to access the forests. This would drum up some controversy and piss some people off in turn making the anti's look like the ridiculous extreme radicals they are. Heck wouldn't the ADA have some serious issues with this??? Not allowing access for handicapped citizens to some of the prettiest places in this state?? The anti's in turn would have to prove what we are saying isn't fact.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #270 (permalink)
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #271 (permalink)
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One thing we need to show to the public, to the media and to our legislators is that this is NOT just a 4x4, dirt bike, off-road thing.

Most of the dirt roads in Eldo that have been closed are normal, dirt forest roads that a freakin Prius could drive down. (Meaning the 2,300 miles we lost during the DEIS AND many of the routes now under the gun)

Basically when a family in a mini-van goes down a dirt route to picnic, sight-see, bird watch, fish, go camping etc.... that mini van is driving OFF THE HIGHWAY... so it is now a Off Highway Vehicle (OHV)

These closures effect WAY more than just our crowd.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #272 (permalink)
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any published press release by the forest service yet? or are we still waiting?
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:25 PM   #273 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
One thing we need to show to the public, to the media and to our legislators is that this is NOT just a 4x4, dirt bike, off-road thing.

Most of the dirt roads in Eldo that have been closed are normal, dirt forest roads that a freakin Prius could drive down. (Meaning the 2,300 miles we lost during the DEIS AND many of the routes now under the gun)

Basically when a family in a mini-van goes down a dirt route to picnic, sight-see, bird watch, fish, go camping etc.... that mini van is driving OFF THE HIGHWAY... so it is now a Off Highway Vehicle (OHV)

These closures effect WAY more than just our crowd.
Unfortunately and importantly as you point out, that segment of Forest users are both oblivious and in some cases members of the very groups fighting to close down access.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #274 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FuzzyZ View Post
any published press release by the forest service yet? or are we still waiting?

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/eldora...TELPRDB5362068
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:45 PM   #275 (permalink)
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As many know there was an informational meeting with the Forest Service this morning in regards to the possable closure of 42 roads that are listed back in the begining of this thread.

I was invited to attend but am in the Bay area during the week and could not take another day off. I do know the people that were in attendence.

Most of the people are on this board and if they would please confirm, or correct anything that is listed here.

Currently all of the dirt roads are closed for the seasonal closure. when that expires (hopefully in 2 weeks) those roads listed with continue to be closed and I belive that will be their entire length (more on that in a minute). This closure will extend until the Judge releases his decision on the suit (late April hopefully). At that time the road could possably be opened but the feeling is they most likely will not be. they may continue to be closed, possably only specific lengths as opposed to the entire length. That is close only the section that goes through a meadow. this is unknow as well as how the roads would need to be closed...signed and or blocked possibly.

The Forest Service is suppose to have the press release on their website today, it is not as of 4:15pm (is on now)

Now to make matters worse. And I really want to quote where earlier in this thread it was stated that the WORST case is 42 road closed temporaraly.

Um wrong.
until the decision is released, the entire length of the road is closed. that means if that road is the only access to another or several roads, all of them will be unusable. 42 roads can easlir become 100 until the decision is released.
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Last edited by WLDWUN; 04-04-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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