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Old 04-02-2012, 06:21 PM   #76 (permalink)
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What if BRC, and Cal4Wheel was as big as the NRA, think what we get get done with that type of commitment.
Wanna get the clout of the NRA???

Aside from the BRC, AMA, CA4 and others . . . here's the path . . . www.thetrailpac.com . . . don't see much activity there, another place where the rubber actually hits the dirt bags!!!
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:25 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Yeah and it's been happening with our guns since the 30's. Just imagine what trails we'll have left in 50 years if it keeps gong like this.
I don't have to imagine, I've seen it erode for 40 years and there ain't gonna be nothing left that's worth a crap here in less than 10 the way it's going!
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:38 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I am pissed.

I am pissed that this list contains many routes in the area my club has wheeled in for 20 years.

I am pissed that it looks like I will never get to run Deer Valley again.

I am pissed that it looks like I will never have the chance to do Barrett.

I am pissed that all we have in Eldo 4x4 trail-wise now is the Rubicon.

I am pissed that I was BLINDSIDED by this. The lack of communication from our orgs is utter bullshit, between each other and down to the little guy like me.

I am beyond pissed. I am LIVID.

First we lose something like, what? 2,300 miles of routes in Eldo..

THEN they cut the ENTIRE FOREST off to us in winter.

Now, we lose nearly every 4x4 trail in the forest.

How much are we going to take before people wake up?
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:43 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Unless we start suing the pants off of them!
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:45 PM   #80 (permalink)
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How much are we going to take before people wake up?
Sadly, I don't think people will wake up Kurt. You saw what was going on over on Reno4x4. That's what we're up against. People just don't care.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:59 PM   #81 (permalink)
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People will give a shit when it's too late and it's trails they use.


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Old 04-02-2012, 07:01 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Lawsuits and or Occupy to mount funds for a lawsuit.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:11 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The Rubicon is going to be crowded this summer becuase of this.

Maybe that's part of their "Master plan"
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:18 PM   #84 (permalink)
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People will give a shit when it's too late and it's trails they use.
It has been passed that for decades and still we have 1% er's like the Reno 4X4 folks mentioned.

Kurt listed many of the reasons we should be and should have been pissed and engaged for all these decades, building up to the demise of most all wheeling in the areas discussed. . . nothing will change unless the 99% who do give a crap also give some money and time to the issue.

Yes, I know about the choir, preaching to it, the active vocal few, the leaders, monetary contributors, the time contributors and the like but again using the NRA example . . . they didn't garner the support gun owners have historically enjoyed by sitting back and watching rights crumble around them.

They work the Political machine and toss ammo bucks where the bullet meets its target.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:33 PM   #85 (permalink)
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The Rubicon is going to be crowded this summer becuase of this.

Maybe that's part of their "Master plan"
I also think part of the plan is to get so pissed off that we turn on each other.


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Old 04-02-2012, 07:38 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Kind of ironic with all the "Occupy" discussion going on in this thread that the fall edition of UFWDA "Voice" ran an article about the very same issues . . . http://www.ebookonline.co.nz/doc/ufwda_fall/ . . . pages 6 & 7.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #87 (permalink)
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The Rubicon is going to be crowded this summer becuase of this.

Maybe that's part of their "Master plan"
Exactly. The more traffic on the rubicon, the more "environmental damage".

How can the government take something that we are entitled to? Why can't they work with us to fix the problem? Even if it means building a goddam bridge on Deer Valley.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Maybe if the CBD shut down some mall parking lots, we would get more people up in arms.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:46 PM   #89 (permalink)
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How can the government take something that we are entitled to? Why can't they work with us to fix the problem? Even if it means building a goddam bridge on Deer Valley.
I think the FS is on OUR side here. They don't want to be told how to do their job by the CBD.

Imagine if at your work some asshat didn't like how you do your job so they sue you in federal court to force you to do it thier way?
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:51 PM   #90 (permalink)
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So how is this possible?? And I dont mean the closures, cause we know we are loosing that battle... But how is it that we didn't know anything about this until 3 days ago, then the weekend passes, and we loose 40 trails that we all enjoy every year??

How did no one at Cal4, or BRC, or CORVA, or anyone else that I give my money to every year not know anything about this??? Or if they did, why the fuck didn't they tell anyone, so we could do something about it???

I am so beyond pissed off right now, I don't know what to say...

Can someone that is smarter than me, please tell me what can be done to sway/change this decision?? There has to be something... there is no fucking way I am going to sit back, and watch them close these trails...
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:56 PM   #91 (permalink)
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How can the government take something that we are entitled to? Why can't they work with us to fix the problem? Even if it means building a goddam bridge on Deer Valley.
I think the FS is on OUR side here. They don't want to be told how to do their job by the CBD.

Imagine if at your work some asshat didn't like how you do your job so they sue you in federal court to force you to do it thier way?
I get what your saying. But how come we never heard about it? It seems as though if the FS was on our side, they would have told us instead of hiding it behind our backs? There's a grey area. Not saying you are wrong.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:02 PM   #92 (permalink)
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How can the government take something that we are entitled to?
Umm, "entitlements" are a key topic of discussion for the upcoming election and while we have multiple-use sustained-yield provisions to draw upon I don't recall anything that says we can exercise that in any manner we choose.

Today, we are “entitled” to what our Government decides to hand us and hence they need to get a firm grasp of what it is we want.

Is it welfare, food stamps, mandated health care, Social Security benefits, Medicare, freeways that can be driven on, public land that can be used by the public via various means and for various purposes . . . etc!
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:06 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Can someone that is smarter than me, please tell me what can be done to sway/change this decision?? There has to be something... there is no fucking way I am going to sit back, and watch them close these trails...
http://www.thetrailpac.com/
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #94 (permalink)
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So if we donate to TPAC all this will go away? Are you saying that this decision is a political decision?

Cmon Bob......really? I get what you mean, don't get me wrong.

I don"t think Don Amador is holding our trails hostage for donations.

We need to sue. Who is going to step up? BRC and CAL4?


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Old 04-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Lawsuits are the only way. No offense to Kurt or anyone else because they do invaluable work, but letter writing campaigns can only do so much, and in the end that stuff won't save our trails.

You have to play the same dirty games as the greenies but beat them at it. That involves lawyers and lawsuits- it's the only way.

Maybe our land use lawyers should contact the guys over at Calguns and see if they can rip a few pages out of their play book; because lately they have been kicking butt for gun rights in CA- suing everyone that even thinks about violating rights.

If BRC, Cal4wheel won't do it then maybe it's time to start an organization that will.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:40 PM   #96 (permalink)
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How did no one at Cal4, or BRC, or anyone else that I give my money to every year not know anything about this???
They did know, as did AMA I believe. They have been involved in this suit.
I will let them explain why we should not have been more informed sooner.

I learned more about this making a phone call to the county and the Forest Service than from those paid groups.

They (Forest Service) are expecting to have the press release tomorrow as soon as the wording is determined.
Maps should be rleased at the same time
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:23 PM   #97 (permalink)
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How did no one at Cal4, or BRC, or CORVA, or anyone else that I give my money to every year not know anything about this??? Or if they did, why the fuck didn't they tell anyone, so we could do something about it???
BRC is the main party's in the law suit with Cal4Wheel being a co-party. Reports were given at each of the north district meetings along with in depth report from the Cal4Wheel's lawer at the Cal4Wheel convention this last Feburary in Hesperia, Ca.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:26 PM   #98 (permalink)
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They are not party to the lawsuit...they are Intervenors...they have no dog in this fight. They (John Stewart) are a part of the remedy panel.



Interveneors
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...m/intervention
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:28 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Maybe we should sell theme condoms like CBD to generate some funds:

http://www.endangeredspeciescondoms.com/
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:38 PM   #100 (permalink)
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They are not party to the lawsuit...they are Intervenors...they have no dog in this fight. They (John Stewart) are a part of the remedy panel.



Interveneors
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...m/intervention
That is what I was meaning. Didn't have the right word for it, thanks.
But BRC's lawer was heard by the judge, according to Dennis he slamed CBD arguments.
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