Deer Valley/Strawberry Closed?

[MT4Runner]

Are we occupying? I've never been to ElDoNF, but I'm in.


Time to stop worrying about "them" and make "them" worry about "us".

Maybe we need to shut down something of "theirs".

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Bebe

So if we donate to TPAC all this will go away? Are you saying that this decision is a political decision?

Cmon Bob......really? I get what you mean, don't get me wrong.

I don"t think Don Amador is holding our trails hostage for donations.

We need to sue. Who is going to step up? BRC and CAL4?


My power has been out since 5:30, no phone/Internet. Thank god for iPads!!!

Please, we both know it is far more complicated than a Political decision now and has been, although it started that way.

A BRC, AMA, CA4 or name your favorite flavor intervention or solution is out of reach now and has been to me for years.

My point is simply that if we do not move in this PAC direction, future decisions if there is anything remaining to be decided upon, will suffer in part at the hands of Politicians and decisions made quite some time ago along with those they will make tomorrow. We can’t change the past but we may be able to influence the future via working the Political machine the way the rest of the “special interests” do.

Don is trying to find a way to beat them at their own game and is not holding anything hostage including his perspectives on the matter.

You tell me who is going to launch and fund a lawsuit of this nature should it come to that, we’d be lucky to find an Attorney willing to work this for free let alone come up with funding to buy a real one.

You know as well as I do that the groups who support us can barely exist as they stand, let alone engage in multiple protracted otherwise unfunded litigation over something that started long ago and has no hope of being rolled back. The domino effect that began in the surrounding areas knows no trail, county or forest boundaries.

It’s SSDD . . . too little WAY too late as usual . . . and our support folks take the brunt once again for not giving the green crew all the specifics in writing here for all to see!!!

[1uglyranger]

So CORVA and BRC can send me dozens of emails a month about every subject under the sun that I don't understand, but when its in my backyard I get nothing?

Reminds me of when I saw pics of the gatekeeper blowing up.

I wasn't kidding about kicking someone's ass

[Kurtuleas]

I just heard that a few days ago the HiLos sent out a notice cancelling their Poker Run this year becuase Deer Valley was going to be closed.

How did THEY know?

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

How did THEY know?

The green crew leaked it.

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by LYIN' KING

The green crew leaked it.

But how did they know, and not us?

Maybe I am being naive, but I think pbb get shit done. And when I wanna make a statement, I come here. Is pbb really that small, that no one else runs here with big info?

Hell, why has no one from BRC, Cal4, or CORVA, posted up here? A BRC Ambassador live just a mile from me..... wonder if he is sleeping right now....

[Kurtuleas]

Originally Posted by LYIN' KING

The green crew leaked it.

well... Doug knew about it before we did..

Too bad we chased him away from PBB becuase we didnt have his back with that issue on his side of the Con.

[Brothergrim]

Originally Posted by 1uglyranger

But how did they know, and not us?

Maybe I am being naive, but I think pbb get shit done. And when I wanna make a statement, I come here. Is pbb really that small, that no one else runs here with big info?

Hell, why has no one from BRC, Cal4, or CORVA, posted up here? A BRC Ambassador live just a mile from me..... wonder if he is sleeping right now....

You have had them on this thread.

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

well... Doug knew about it before we did..

Too bad we chased him away from PBB becuase we didnt have his back with that issue on his side of the Con.

And Doug didn't share with anyone who is still on pbb?
Just cause Doug isn't here doesn't mean he doesn't talk to someone who is....

I'm not loosing sleep over Doug not being on pbb.

[Crash440]

Originally Posted by 1uglyranger

So CORVA and BRC can send me dozens of emails a month about every subject under the sun that I don't understand, but when its in my backyard I get nothing?

Reminds me of when I saw pics of the gatekeeper blowing up.

I wasn't kidding about kicking someone's ass

exactly like Gatekeeper, thank you I'm not alone in feeling this

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by Brothergrim

You have had them on this thread.

Who are they? Please excuse that I am trying to read on my phone, cause my laptop is b roke, but did anyone say that they were part of cal4, or brc, or corva and they knew of this suit?

Not all of us know who is who, and screen names, etc. That's why my real name is in my sig line. I want everyone to know who is talking. I have nothing to hide. Who has posted in this thread who is employed by brc, or Cal4?

[connor0770]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

Too bad we chased him away from PBB becuase we didnt have his back with that issue on his side of the Con.

Funny thing is the first two work parties are on Cadillac this year.

I'm sure he would still find a way to spread the word. He wheels these trails too I'm sure.

[WLDWUN]

Originally Posted by LYIN' KING

The green crew leaked it.

I dont understand that they could have leaked it, when you said earlier that BRC, Cal4 were in a wait and see mode untill the decison was made

Originally Posted by 1uglyranger

Who has posted in this thread who is employed by brc, or Cal4?

John was here and has been watching
Natural Resourse consultant Cal4
post #9

[Brothergrim]

Originally Posted by WLDWUN

John was here and has been watching
Natural Resourse consultant Cal4
post #9

Thank you, I didn't want to name name without talking to the him first.

[WLDWUN]

Originally Posted by Brothergrim

Thank you, I didn't want to name name without talking to the him first.

its in his sig line otherwise I wouldnt do it either

[Kurtuleas]

Even if they DID tell us about this suit..

What could we have done anyway?

I guess we coulda lubed our rectums before it all came down.

[kf6zpl]

Wow. What a way to mix a multitude of unrelated concepts and arrive at a desired conclusion.

Ladies and Gentlemen, take a step back and reflect on the reality of this situation.

The Center for Sierra Nevada Conservancy filed lawsuit against the Forest Service requesting closure of virtually everything in the Eldoredo based on adverse impacts to frogs, water, meadows, and wetlands.

BRC and Cal4 filed as intervenors. This is well known to all that bother to keep up with information put out by BRC and Cal4Wheel. Sorry, those organizations do not make house calls to ensure everyone receives the information. (Yes, I am being condescending and sarcastic.)

After a court hearing, Judge Karlton denied the basic claims and ordered boths side to enter into settlement discussions to resolve the remaining issues.

At this point, Dept of Justice and BRC went behind closed doors to negotiate with Center for Sierra Nevada Conservancy.

I provided sufficient GIS data which dropped the frog issue from further discussion.

Don Amador, Jim and I provided enough data to remove a large number of routs from further discussion.

At the end, it came down to about 40 routes that were at issue. Thanks to Bebe, Rick and a f others, sufficient data was provided to bring it down to the 40 number and have a good rational why those 40 routes should remain open.

That is where settlement talks broke down with the enviro's wanting a full and immediate closure of those and many more rites.

The DOJ lawyers balked and everything went back to Judge Karlton's court.

To his credit, the judge threw out all but the 40 routes and ordered the FS to come ack with a plan dealing with the identified routes that crossed meadows or impacted water.

So, that is where we are at this point. The FS has to return to court with a plan.

As I stated early in this thread, WORST case means 40 routes may be subject to closure by judicial order.

Yes, I hear you abut the length of time the rutes have existed. And, about the other stated reasons why you don't believe the routes should e subject to any type of closure.

You don't like the law? Work to change he law by supporting trail friendly politicians.

Don't think you are getting enough information? Try branching out to other sources besides this forum which is not the end all source of information.

And, how about attending a Cal4 meeting? This info was presented at the Cal4 North District meeting in January and a shortened version was presented at the Cal4 convention in February.

Just remember, while the courts have jurisdiction over a case, there will be little information that will be available for public review and discussion. Don't like it? Sorry, I really don't relish being held in contemp of court.

Still have question? Or, want to bitch?

I am easy to find via PM, email or phone....

[1uglyranger]

My point was not everyone on this bb knows who John Stewart is, and he didn't identify himself as being a Cal4 rep.

[Kurtuleas]

Thanks John...


So WHY does the FS have to close these routes NOW while they are forming a plan?

[Kurtuleas]

John...do you mind if I copy/paste your post into the other thread in chit-chat?

[WLDWUN]

Originally Posted by kf6zpl

Wow. What a way to mix a multitude of unrelated concepts and arrive at a desired conclusion.

Ladies and Gentlemen, ....

thank you John.
my talk with the FS isnt quit as good as your interpritation....and I hope you are correct

Originally Posted by 1uglyranger

My point was not everyone on this bb knows who John Stewart is, and he didn't identify himself as being a Cal4 rep.

agreed. but if you read your Cal4 mag, his article and picture are in it each month.

maybe we all need a better understanding of who is doing what and with whom

[k5chevyblazer]

subscribed.

and thank you John for the detailed explanation.

[1uglyranger]

And I don't like condesenting, or sarcastic....

We all do what we can when it comes to being involved. I guess we all think this was important enough to make public record. Not all of us have the time, resources, or brain power to find these things out on our own, that's why we give our money to Cal4, BRC, etc..... isn't it?

If these orgs are not doing anything to keep us up to speed, or "in the loop" than what are we donating our money to?

John, I don't know you. Don't know if we have ever met. I don't want to sound like I am attacking you. I am just really mad right now, and I'm sorry if I am coming off that way. Until 5 minutes ago, I didn't know who your were, so its kinda hard to search you out to ask questions about a lawsuit that I have never heard of.... make sense?

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by WLDWUN

agreed. but if you read your Cal4 mag, his article and picture are in it each month.

maybe we all need a better understanding of who is doing what and with whom

I don't get a Cal4 mag anymore. I get an email, that I rarely read, cause its not interesting.... my fault, I know, but knowing Johns name and seeing his picture would not tell he who he is on pbb, or anything about this lawsuit

[kf6zpl]

My point was not everyone on this bb knows who John Stewart is, and he didn't identify himself as being a Cal4 rep.

I do not identify myself as a "Cal4rep" because there are certain individuals in Cal4 that take exception to my being linked as a Cal4 rep.

For the record, I am --

Natural Rources Consultant for Cal4Wheel
Editor:
www.4x4wire.com
www.4x4Voice.com
www.muirnet.net
Board of Directors -- BlueRibbon Coalition
Chairman of the Board of Directors -- Giant Sequoia National Monument Association
Member -- Tierra Del Sol 4 Wheel Drive Club of San Diego

And, in my spare time I do have a consulting business dealing with recreation and environmental issues along with website development and hosting.