Something you can do right now!! - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Land Use Issues
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2012, 01:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,546
Something you can do right now!!

From CORVA. El DOrado National forest has used OHMVR grant dollars to work on the Barrett Lake and other OHV trails. If we want to fight, we need to fight to keep our funding.

Remember when Karen and friends were calling for street legal only on the Rubicon?? Well, she tried, unsuccessfully, to strangle the funding for the trail. Let's not let this happen because the legislature thinks they can just do what they want with our money!!

Quote:
Protecting Our OHV Trust Fund
By Amy Granat
The State of California has begun “taking” OHV Trust Fund money you have paid through green sticker purchases, offroad
fuel taxes and user fees from State OHV Parks, meaning they will not be returning it. Last year they took $10 million and we
believe that they will continue to “take,” not borrow, as long as they can get away with it.
We consider this taking to be illegal, and after a legal review, the law firm of Baker Manock & Jensen, specializing in
California Constitutional Law has agreed that this is an investigation worth pursuing. To this end we have formed the Off
Highway Vehicle Defense Council (OHVDC), working with N2Dirt, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, made up of people
representing diverse groups of OHV users throughout California. Baker Manock & Jensen have been retained to immediately
commence a thorough investigation to determine whether, in its opinion, this taking is illegal and what remedies are
available to us. This investigation may result in a suit against the State of California.
The initial effort will cost a maximum of $15,000 of which five thousand dollars has already been paid as a retainer. Every
dollar has been donated by our peers, clubs, and state organizations. Because we have not yet fully funded this project, we
urgently need your tax deductable donations.
The very existence of the State Parks OHV division and all California’s SVRAs are at stake as well as critical funding for
Sheriff’s Departments, National Forests, BLM lands and City/County Recreation departments throughout California. Please
become part of this historic fight and contribute as much as you can.
Make your contribution payable to: “N2DIRT”
Attn: “OHVDC Fund”
4346 E. Los Angeles Ave
Simi Valley, CA 93063
Include “OHVDC Fund” in the check memo field, and include an email address for you or your organization to receive
project status updates. Thanks
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,546
Top.

Without funding, no National Forest will be able to do maintenance on any road or trail. Support this effort!!! Do not let the legislature hamstring the funding for OHV.

This is the ONLY effort to regain these funds. We are talking millions where we have thousands.
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 187383
Posts: 163
http://www.ohvdc.org
OrangeCrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,032
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
From what I can tell, we still have OHV Money, we just don't have the excess funds . All of the projects for this year have funding.

Right?

Quote:
OHV Trust Fund Diversion

The State of California has begun "taking" OHV Trust Fund money you have paid through green sticker purchases, offroad fuel taxes and user fees from State OHV Parks, meaning they will not be returning it. Last year they took $10 million and we believe that they will continue to "take," not borrow, as long as they can get away with it.

We consider this taking to be illegal, and after a legal review, the law firm of Baker Manock & Jensen, specializing in California Constitutional Law has agreed that this is an investigation worth pursuing.

Baker Manock & Jensen has been retained to immediately commence a thorough investigation to determine whether, in its opinion, this taking is illegal and what remedies are available to us. This investigation may result in a suit against the State of California.

The initial effort will cost a maximum of $15 thousand dollars, every dollar being donated by our peers, clubs, and state organizations. Because we have not yet fully funded this project, we urgently need your tax deductible donations.

The very existence of the State Parks OHV division and all California's SVRAs are at stake as well as critical funding for Sheriff's Departments, National Forests, BLM lands and City/County Recreation departments throughout California. Please become part of this historic fight and contribute as much as you can.
I was under the impression we as a user group have sued the State before for a very similar if not identical "taking" of Funds....and we WON.

How is this lawsuit different?

We consider this taking to be illegal, and after a legal review, the law firm of Baker Manock & Jensen, specializing in California Constitutional Law has agreed that this is an investigation worth pursuing.

Baker Manock & Jensen has been retained to immediately commence a thorough investigation to determine whether, in its opinion, this taking is illegal and what remedies are available to us. This investigation may result in a suit against the State of California.

In the top paragraph they say they have decided after legal review it's an illegal taking of funds, but in the second paragraph they need money from us to "investigate" whether or not in it's "opinion" the taking is illegal?
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL

Last edited by Bebe; 05-04-2012 at 12:26 PM.
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 12:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,032
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Who is the OHV Defense Council?
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 01:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 187383
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
Who is the OHV Defense Council?
http://www.southbayriders.com/forums....php?t=121543&

Here's the line to where I found the web site.
OrangeCrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,032
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Ahhh....

Quote:
trailgal


Location: Clarksburg

Motorcycle: 1990 YJ Jeep

Name: Amy



We really have to thank Kenny for starting the ball rolling - he saw what was possible, and brought the rest of us to the table.

Along with Kenny....Mike Wubbels and I have been with him every step of the way because we believe in getting back that the money supposed to go towards OHV opportunities, (and we're gluttons for punishment ).

CORVA is in this all the way, we had actually started investigating the legality of this action last year after the budget bill was signed. When Kenny called, we were able to bring our knowledge and experience together with Mike's passion and Kenny's determination. For those that have donated to CORVA as well - thanks, and your money has gone to help make this possible, as well as continue the fight for Clear Creek, Eldorado, Johnson Valley, warding off new wilderness, Rubicon, and all the areas that we've been working.

So if you want to blame anyone, thank anyone, or ask questions, please do. This is a transparent process as much as we can make it, most of all we want to stand up for the OHV community and try to get our money back!

Amy Granat
Managing Director
CORVA
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 97797
Posts: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
I was under the impression we as a user group have sued the State before for a very similar if not identical "taking" of Funds....and we WON.

How is this lawsuit different?
If I recall correctly, the earlier "taking" of funds was money that had already made it into the OHV Trust fund. The current action is for funds that are being redirected from the fuel fund before it gets to the OHV Trust fund, which is not allowed according to the California Constitution:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 19A LOANS FROM THE PUBLIC TRANPORTATION ACCOUNT OR LOCAL TRANSPORTATION FUNDS

SECTION 1. (a) The Legislature shall not borrow revenues from the
Public Transportation Account, or any successor account, and shall
not use these revenues for purposes, or in ways, other than those
specifically permitted by this article.


Quote:
We consider this taking to be illegal, and after a legal review, the law firm of Baker Manock & Jensen, specializing in California Constitutional Law has agreed that this is an investigation worth pursuing.

In the top paragraph they say they have decided after legal review it's an illegal taking of funds, but in the second paragraph they need money from us to "investigate" whether or not in it's "opinion" the taking is illegal?
The OHVDC is the one that feels that the "taking" is illegal. The OHVDC is getting a legal opinion on it from the attorneys.

Ride on
Brewster
CERA...LAO

Last edited by Brewster2; 05-04-2012 at 05:40 PM.
Brewster2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,032
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Ok sorry...If it is that cut and dried why do we need to raise 15K in investigate whether or not we have a case?

Can't we just tell the LAO to pound sand?
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 07:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 97797
Posts: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
Ok sorry...If it is that cut and dried why do we need to raise 15K in investigate whether or not we have a case?

Can't we just tell the LAO to pound sand?
This is the government we're talking about.......They already think it's OK to "take" the funds. Who is "we"? The law firm was picked due to its strong constitutional law reputation. If all goes well, the EAJ act will end up reimbursing us.

Ride on
Brewster
Brewster2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 05:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Member # 214920
Posts: 39
It is my understanding that the law firm that the OHVDC has retained is the law firm that sued the State and won with regard to the First 5 case in which the State tried to take monies from the First 5 program.
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 11:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,032
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
I thought EAJA was Federal, not State.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 11:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 187383
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post

Can't we just tell the LAO to pound sand?
Wouldn't that be nice......
OrangeCrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 08:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 97797
Posts: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
I thought EAJA was Federal, not State.
The state has a similar program. That is why the SVRA's have been the victims of law suits.

Ride on
Brewster
Brewster2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 07:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 98837
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 37
Here are some answers to clarify this issue:

Quote:
I was under the impression we as a user group have sued the State before for a very similar if not identical "taking" of Funds....and we WON.

How is this lawsuit different?
In the past the State has found various ways to "borrow" money with the supposed intent to pay it back. There have been successful lawsuits in the past to force the state to pay back at least part of what was borrowed.

This time, AB95 sets up a permanent ten million dollar annual "diversion." This is a taking because there is no intent to pay it back. The logic is that, unlike the green-sticker money or the park entrance fees, the fuel tax component (the largest component by far) is a true "tax" and so is fungible, i.e. it can be used for whatever purpose they see fit. At the time AB95 passed there was disagreement even between state offices as to the legality of this tactic.

Quote:
In the top paragraph they say they have decided after legal review it's an illegal taking of funds, but in the second paragraph they need money from us to "investigate" whether or not in it's "opinion" the taking is illegal?
The OHVDC is initiating this... it is our "belief," although we are not alone in this belief. The lawfirm working on this issue also had this belief after being presented with this issue... this is the legal review. The "investigation" is the determination of exactly how and why this diversion is illegal... basically it is the preparation for a lawsuit.

For comparison purposes, think of a criminal trial. If you are accused of a crime you get a lawyer who prepares a case to go to trial. In a criminal case you go to trial regardless of your chances of winning, but in a civil lawsuit this is called an investigation since nothing has been filed with the court yet. You have the luxury of preparing the case prior to deciding to file. If it happens that this investigation does not indicate a strong possibility of winning then you can stop the action before financing a lawsuit. The investigation assembles the framework for a lawsuit.

This is a complex issue that requires a law firm that specializes in constitutional law, and this doesn't come free. The $15K this is costing is a drop in the bucket of the fund we will need to play with the big boys on issues like this.

Quote:
From what I can tell, we still have OHV Money, we just don't have the excess funds . All of the projects for this year have funding.

Right?
Not really. There's no such thing as excess funds, by the way. There have been funds that accumulated when the commission was being restructured, and there's still large sums owed back to the Trust Fund, but the annual income equals the annual expenses. The Trust Fund funds the entire division, and the grant program is a bit less than one third of the total (last years numbers). Less money effects the whole division, not just the grant program.

Quote:
It is my understanding that the law firm that the OHVDC has retained is the law firm that sued the State and won with regard to the First 5 case in which the State tried to take monies from the First 5 program.
This law firm has not been used for OHMVR funding issues before. They were chosen because of their winning track record suing the state on constitutional law issues.

Quote:
Who is the OHV Defense Council?
Details will be added to the web site soon, hopefully in the next couple days. OHVDC.org


Joe Sand, OHVDC Chairman and Project Manager
UglyJeepDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.