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Old 04-07-2012, 12:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Good one, Brian!

Keep sending letters, folks!
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Done.

Sent to McCarthy, Boxer and Feinstein.

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Old 04-07-2012, 08:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Done....Sent to my local Dem
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:07 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Here is more data for the Eldo.

Forest visitors represented 1.7 million people per year.

Putting dollars to this equals between $197.2 million to $416.5 million for communities around the Eldo!

Now, where is most of this money going to go? Will people go to another forest, or just not go?

I sent my letter to Costa, Boxer & Feinstein with numbers.
This is data I pulled from the forest service web site for visitor user data.

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Old 04-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks.. I'll get writing (really doubt the bay area ones care.. but I might as well fill their mailbox)

Any info/maps on what trails they are talking about? This might just kill a few of my weekend/week vacation plans this year.
That may very well be, but the thing is, you care. They represent you and so they should care. Unfortunately, it is up to you to make the noise to them so they understand how important it is to you.

That is exactly how one person can make a difference.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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That may very well be, but the thing is, you care. They represent you and so they should care. Unfortunately, it is up to you to make the noise to them so they understand how important it is to you.

That is exactly how one person can make a difference.
Thanks I needed that, tired of getting the usual cannned letter response about how concerned they are with their constituents, blah, blah, blah, etc.... Already wrote to Simitian, I will write to Feinstein and Boxer.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Done, I took Todd's above and customized it a bit and sent it off to my two Senators here in Washington state. Not sure if it will help, but I can see the same thing happen here in the NW if this isn't stopped soon.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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No offense intended nor any directed at the authors of all the fine letters posted here, but many use an “assumptive close”.

An “assumptive close” is a commonly used sales technique often seen in action when purchasing a car from a stealership. It is lame technique #1 still taught at many car lots to a new salesperson and can be very effective in this setting . . . on IDIOTS.

When used to plead a case to Public Officials for keeping a trail open it can at best result in undesirable outcomes or be fatal.

Here it concedes that the result WILL be closing the trail by virtue of the request that trails remain open until the study is completed; this assumes the inevitable outcome from the study will be closure!

Go ahead and rip me a new one for pointing this out if you must . . .

Bob
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I have not gotten the impression from the FS or anyone that these trails will be closed on a permanent basis or that they intend to do so. Of course, closing them for a short time is the first step to permanent closure. It has been done too many times in the past. Once closed the eco push will be for permanent closure.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:18 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I have not gotten the impression from the FS or anyone that these trails will be closed on a permanent basis or that they intend to do so.
I don't believe that the FS plan is even official yet! We may have made it so by concessionary letters however!!!
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:39 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:50 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Huh?
Huh what?
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I think what he is saying is that if you ask someone to keep the trail open while awaiting results of the study, those study results could wind up closing the trail in the future anyways. So the rep you have mailed this too, might conclude that its pointless to keep the trail open if it even has a slight chance that it might be closed after the study.

So we should have said that these trails need to stay open regardless of what the environmental study says. Perhaps the study results could be used as a basis for OHV volunteer work to help fix the environmental issues?

By all means please correct me if I've gotten that wrong. I'm not the elloquent writer that some of you are.

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Old 04-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Phone calls are great to ask to speek to the staff member that deals with the issue. I am not a very good writer but I can talk and this is away to build a contact in the office. When calling get the name of who you are talking to so you can follow up with an e-mail. Here is a list of the phone numbers.

California
Rep. Mike Thompson (D-1st)
231 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-3311; 225-4335
Eureka: (707) 269-9595

Rep. Wally Herger (R-2nd)
242 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-3076; (202) 226-0852
Chico: (530) 893-8363

Rep. Dan Lungren (R-3rd)
2313 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-5716 ; 226-1298
Gold River: (916) 859-9906

Rep. Tom McClintock (R-4th)
428 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-2511; 225-5444
Granite Bay: (916) 786-5560

Rep. Doris Matsui (D-5th)
222 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-7163; 225-0566
Sacramento: (916) 498-5600

Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-6th)
2263 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-5161; 225-5163
Santa Rosa: (707) 542-7182

Rep. George Miller (D-7th)
2205 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-2095; 225-5609
Concord: (925) 602-1880

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-8th)
235 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-4965; 225-8259
San Francisco: (415) 556-4862

Rep. Barbara Lee (D-9th)
2267 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-2661; 225-9817
Oakland: (510) 763-0370

Rep. John Garamendi (D-10th)
228 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-1880; 225-5914
Walnut Creek: (925) 932-8899

Rep. Jerry McNerney (D-11th)
1210 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-1947; 225-4060
Pleasanton: (925) 737-0727

Rep. Jackie Speier (D-12th)
211 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-3531; 226-4183
San Mateo: (650) 342-0300

Rep. Fortney Stark (D-13th)
239 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-5065; 226-3805
Fremont: (510) 494-1388

Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-14th)
205 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-8104; 225-8890
Palo Alto: (650) 323-2984

Rep. Mike Honda (D-15th)
1713 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-2631; 225-2699
Campbell: (408) 558-8085

Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-16th)
1401 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-3072; 225-3336
San Jose: (408) 271-8700

Rep. Sam Farr (D-17th)
1126 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-2861; 225-6791
Salinas: (831) 424-2229

Rep. Dennis Cardoza (D-18th)
2437 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-6131; 225-0819
Merced: (209) 383-4455

Rep. Jeff Denham (R-19th) *
1605 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-4540; 225-3402
Fresno: (559) 449-2490

Rep. Jim Costa (D-20th)
1314 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-3341; 225-9308
Fresno: (559) 495-1620

Rep. Devin Nunes (R-21st)
1013 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-2523; 225-3404
Visalia: (559) 733-3861

Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-22nd)
326 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-2915; 225-2908
Bakersfield: (661) 327-3611

Rep. Lois Capps (D-23rd)
2231 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-3601; 225-5632
Santa Barbara: (805) 730-1710

Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-24th)
2309 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-5811; 225-1100
Thousand Oaks: (805) 497-2224

Rep. Buck McKeon (R-25th)
2184 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-1956; 226-0683
Santa Clarita: (805) 254-2111

Rep. David Dreier (R-26th)
233 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-2305; 225-7018
Covina: (909) 575-6226

Rep. Brad Sherman (D-27th)
2242 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-5911; 225-5879
Van Nuys: (818) 501-9200

Rep. Howard Berman (D-28th)
2330 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-4695; 225-3196
Van Nuys: (818) 994-7200

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-29th)
2411 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-4176; 225-5828
Pasadena: (626) 304-2727

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-30th)
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-3976; 225-4099
Los Angeles: (323) 651-1040

Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-31st)
1226 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-6235; 225-2202
Los Angeles: (213) 483-1425

Rep. Judy Shu (D-32nd)
1520 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-5464; 225-5467
El Monte: (626) 448-1271

Rep. Karen Bass (D-33rd) *
408 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-7084; 225-2422
Los Angeles: (323) 965-1422

Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-34th)
2330 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-1766; 226-0350
Los Angeles: (213) 628-9230

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-35th)
2344 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-2201; 225-7854
Los Angeles: (213) 757-8900

Rep. Janice Hahn (D-36th)
2400 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-8220; 225-7290
Wilmington: (310) 549-8282

Rep. Laura Richardson (D-37th)
1330 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-7924; 225-7926
Long Beach: (562) 436-3828

Rep. Grace Napolitano (D-38th)
1610 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-5256; 225-0027
Santa Fe Springs: (801) 801-2134

Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-39th)
2423 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-6676; 226-1012
Cerritos: (562) 860-5050

Rep. Edward Royce (R-40th)
2185 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-4111; 226-0335
Orange: (714) 744-4130

Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-41st)
2112 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-5861; 225-6498
Redlands: (800) 233-1700

Rep. Gary Miller (R-42nd)
2349 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-3201; 226-6962
Brea: (714) 257-1142

Rep. Joe Baca (D-43rd)
2366 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-6161; 225-8671
San Bernardino: (909) 885-2222

Rep. Ken Calvert (R-44th)
2269 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-1986; 225-2004
Riverside: (909) 784-4300

Rep. Mary Bono Mack (R-45th)
104 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-5330; 225-2961
Palm Desert: (760) 320-1076

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-46th)
2300 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-2415; 225-0145
Huntington Beach: (714) 960-6483

Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-47th)
1114 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-2965; 225-5859
Garden Grove: (714) 621-0102

Rep. John Campbell (R-48th)
1507 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-5611; 225-9177
Newport Beach: (949) 756-2244

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-49th)
2347 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-3906; 225-3303
Vista: (760) 599-5000

Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-50th)
2410 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-0508; 225-2558
Solana Beach: (858) 350-1150

Rep. Bob Filner (D-51st)
2428 Rayburn House Office Building
(202) 225-8045; 225-9073
Chula Vista: (619) 422-5963

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-52nd)
223 Cannon House Office Building
(202) 225-5672; 225-0235
El Cajon: (619) 448-5201

Rep. Susan Davis (D-53rd)
1526 Longworth House Office Building
(202) 225-2040; 225-2948
San Diego: (619) 280-5353



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Old 04-08-2012, 10:27 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I have not gotten the impression from the FS or anyone that these trails will be closed on a permanent basis or that they intend to do so. Of course, closing them for a short time is the first step to permanent closure. It has been done too many times in the past. Once closed the eco push will be for permanent closure.
I think we all know that could be the out come. Even when we try to do whats right we get blocked, just look at last years projects on the Rubicon.

You have been doing this a long time. We could get a 100 people to rebuild the Barrett trail in a weekend. Do you know why that plan have not moved forward ?

I'm thinking I better go to Pismo before that is closed too.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:47 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I think what he is saying is that if you ask someone to keep the trail open while awaiting results of the study, those study results could wind up closing the trail in the future anyways.

Kevo
Thanks Kevo, here was my point regarding the letters and some other thoughts.


Point “A”

The problem with the letters is this . . . “I don’t see why these trails, which have been used for decades, can’t remain open until the environmental study is complete.”

It assumes that the study will find reason to just close all the trails.

Gaines, for all his well meaning lip service, actually gave away what he believes will happen once the study is completed with his statement. Using his fatalistic words in the letters tells public servants that we only want to use the trails until the end of the study . . . “open until study complete”.

I believe what we actually want is to continue to use the trails period, before, during and after the study!!!

Of course, we are willing to go around or bridge areas and waterways that the study may find too sensitive to continue using in the same manner they have been. We are also willing to donate time, money and other resources to help modify and maintain the trails where any valid problems exist. We aren’t willing to give up using a 15 mile long trail just because it has one damp spot two feet wide in the middle of it during summer once every five years!


Point “B”

Running to our local Public Servants for non-Public Servant related stuff (they didn’t initiate this) isn’t always the best first course of action, assuming we have something to run with to begin with. According to this . . . http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/eldora...TELPRDB5362068 . . . we don’t yet!


Jumping the gun can have unintended consequences.


See that “may be closed” in the first paragraph? There is a clue.

Then there is the following . . .

“potential travel prohibitions”, “reconsider the decision”, “final court order with further direction to the Forest Service is pending.”, “final order will identify specifically where travel will be prohibited until a new environmental decision is made.” and “if the final order prohibits travel” . . . plus several other more minor nuances.

Why all the double speak by the FS and Court?

IMHO its intent was a forewarning to get prepared. There is no “open public comment period” announcement from the FS yet.

Any letters sent prior to “open public comment” may not be counted. If they are allowed and read the same, that grouping will count as one comment. The few Public Servants who may try to act on these early letters will likely find they have no place to voice concerns; it is not a currently open political topic.

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:45 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Here is more data for the Eldo.

Forest visitors represented 1.7 million people per year.

Putting dollars to this equals between $197.2 million to $416.5 million for communities around the Eldo!

Now, where is most of this money going to go? Will people go to another forest, or just not go?

I sent my letter to Costa, Boxer & Feinstein with numbers.
This is data I pulled from the forest service web site for visitor user data.

Todd
From my limited experience this kind of data is the key. Our economic data proposal was powerful in DC when we took it out there. How can we build on this data with factual detailed info?

Can a survey like we used for JV be developed?

Will the right people participate?

Can locals get the right questions included?

Can you get the right demographic to participate?

It takes about 3 days for me to build something like we used for JV if I have the data. I would suggest this for every area that is threatened. Don't stop short with just 4x4's it needs to include everyone who used a motorized vehicle on that land.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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McClintock town hall meeting

Just info, Rep. McClintock has a town hall meeting on Wednesday the 11th in Foresthill, 6pm, Memorial hall. He is very pro land use and 2A.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:20 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Used Brians letter, and tweaked it

Dear Congresswoman Lee,

I recently became aware that there will be a massive closure of at least 42 OHV trails in the Eldorado National forest this summer.

Closing these trails for a solid year or more is absolutely the wrong approach. Off-roading is a major hobby enjoyed by people from across the country and is a major contributor to our state and region’s economy.

You can see that by looking at the numbers from a few years ago. From locals of the forest, consumers spend $8.5 million dollars in the Eldo Forest, and non-locals spend $45 million. Also keep in mind that California has 4.9 million OHV users on forest service land across the state, and California has the highest number of OHV users. A closure on these trails would negatively impact this area tremendously.

I don’t see why these trails, which have been in regular use for decades, can’t remain open until the environmental study is complete.

I understand that the ElDorado National Forest, or its surrounding communities is not located in your district, but it is where I spend many weekends a year recreating with my family. I am asking for your help to rectify this situation. There is no grounds for this closure, aside from some peoples hatred for wheeled recreation.

I consider myself an enviormentalist, as I spend many weekends a year in the forest, maintaining its trails, so that they can be enjoyed for years to come. While I have no children, I do have nephews that benefit from enjoying this land. Some of my favorite places to camp with my family are miles away from pavement, and with these road closures, my nephews would never be able to observe and bask in this amazing piece of paradise.

Please take the time to look into this issue, and let me know how you can help.

Sincerely,

Phillip Rocha Vieira
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:02 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Used Brians letter, and tweaked it

Dear Congresswoman Lee,

I recently became aware that there will be a massive closure of at least 42 OHV trails in the Eldorado National forest this summer.

Closing these trails for a solid year or more is absolutely the wrong approach. Off-roading is a major hobby enjoyed by people from across the country and is a major contributor to our state and region’s economy.

You can see that by looking at the numbers from a few years ago. From locals of the forest, consumers spend $8.5 million dollars in the Eldo Forest, and non-locals spend $45 million. Also keep in mind that California has 4.9 million OHV users on forest service land across the state, and California has the highest number of OHV users. A closure on these trails would negatively impact this area tremendously.

I don’t see why these trails, which have been in regular use for decades, can’t remain open during the environmental study.

I understand that the ElDorado National Forest, or its surrounding communities is not located in your district, but it is where I spend many weekends a year recreating with my family. I am asking for your help to rectify this situation. There is no grounds for this closure, aside from some peoples hatred for wheeled recreation.

I consider myself an enviormentalist, as I spend many weekends a year in the forest, maintaining its trails, so that they can be enjoyed for years to come. While I have no children, I do have nephews that benefit from enjoying this land. Some of my favorite places to camp with my family are miles away from pavement, and with these road closures, my nephews would never be able to observe and bask in this amazing piece of paradise.

Please take the time to look into this issue, and let me know how you can help.

Sincerely,

Phillip Rocha Vieira
Fixed it for you. Your sentance insinuated that its ok to close the trails once the study is over.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:42 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Fixed it for you. Your sentance insinuated that its ok to close the trails once the study is over.
I didn't want to beat a dead horse, glad someone read and understood the logic!
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #47 (permalink)
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How about fixing the spelling of "enviormentalist" while you're at it?
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:21 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Pirate 4x4 makes the Bee in this article about the closures:
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/06/439...f-highway.html

Quote:
Court order closes 42 off-highway routes in Eldorado forest

By Carlos Alcalá
calcala@sacbee.com
Published: Friday, Apr. 6, 2012 - 11:01 am
Last Modified: Friday, Apr. 6, 2012 - 2:18 pm

The Eldorado National Forest will close 42 popular off-highway-vehicle routes that cross meadows due to a February court order, Forest Supervisor Kathy Hardy announced this week.

The routes could be closed through this year's recreation season while the U.S. Forest Service conducts an environmental analysis ordered by the court.

U.S. District Court Judge Lawrence Karlton said the Forest Service had failed to comply with the National Forest Management Act when it designated routes as open for motor vehicle use, according to a release from the Forest Service.

Affected routes include Barrett Lake Jeep Trail, Squaw Ridge Four Wheel Drive Trail and Clover Valley/Deer Valley Trail.

Maps and a complete list will be posted at the Eldorado National Forest's website, www.fs.usda.gov/eldorado.

"I know that prohibiting travel on these routes will be a big disappointment to forest visitors, but we have to be responsive to the order," said Hardy, in a released statement.

Online discussion groups for off-roaders have attacked the closures as senseless, and State Senator Ted Gaines (R-Rocklin) has added his voice to the criticism.

"Closing these trails for a solid year or more is absolutely the wrong approach," said Gaines, in a prepared statement. "Off-roading is a major hobby enjoyed by people from across the country and is a contributor to our state and region's economy. I don't see why these trails, which have been used for decades, can't remain open until the environmental study is complete."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/06/439...#storylink=cpy
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:20 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:04 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:


The Rubicon Trail in the Eldorado National Forest
has suffered damage to water and soil from off-roading.
It is not on the list of route closures.
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Last edited by Bebe; 04-10-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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