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Old 05-16-2012, 12:12 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Suspect ???

I've met him only once, and yes, he is one of my LU Hero's. Why is it we end up chasing the good one's off?

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:50 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Suspect ???

I've met him only once, and yes, he is one of my LU Hero's. Why is it we end up chasing the good one's off?

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Snaged one of your own
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:18 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Suspect ???

I've met him only once, and yes, he is one of my LU Hero's. Why is it we end up chasing the good one's off?

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Old 05-16-2012, 05:29 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Reply from counsel to BRC, Cal4 and others

This is Paul Turcke. Thanks for the positive vibes and continued support of our just cause.

I do want to clarify a misperception or misunderstanding I have noticed in this thread. I have not formed, and do not intend to form, an opinion RE the validity of any possible claims or these issues in general. This "case" turns on issues of law, policy and/or karma which are unique to CA and CA law. I am not a member of the CA bar. With support and sympathy to the friends, compadres & orgs I've met in CA, I have no intention of being admitted to the CA bar or becoming too conversant in the State law, policy or karma of the incredible real estate that was admitted to the Union as CA. I have appeared in limited cases in federal court in the US districts w/in CA, but only involving federal administrative law and procedure which are my areas of practice.

In short, I do not endorse, oppose, or have any opinion RE this effort, except to say that our collective cause for responsible access is just, we are fighting immense and growing forces, and cannot squander resources or friends. I wish you all the best.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:36 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Press Release from Senator Bob Dutton today...

_______

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For Immediate Release
May 16, 2012 Release Contact: Kayla Williams/Emmerson
(916) 651-4037

Jann Taber/Dutton
(916) 651-4031


Budget Briefing: The OHV Trust Fund—Where’s the Trust?

Sacramento — Senators Bob Dutton (R-Rancho Cucamonga) and Bill Emmerson (R-Hemet) voiced serious concerns about the future of the Off Highway Vehicle (OHV) Trust Fund following a May 9 hearing of the Senate Budget Subcommittee No. 2 on Resources, Environmental Protection and Transportation.

During the hearing, committee chairman Joe Simitian (D-Palo Alto) dismissed concerns that his plan to fund California state parks relies on stripping funds that have already been dedicated to OHV programs. However, these OHV funds are 100 percent paid by OHV enthusiasts. His proposal would strip $21 million from the OHV trust fund and divert it all to California state parks for the 2012-13 budget.

“Here we go again. This is just another example of one of Sacramento’s broken promises,” Senator Emmerson said. “This was a legislative agreement that was made for funding OHV parks and legislative Democrats want to steal that money away for other purposes. This is nothing more than legalized theft. It’s time we start keeping our promises.”

“Funding for state parks is critical, but so is maintaining the public’s trust,” said Dutton. “If dedicated OHV funds can be taken so easily, what’s to protect other dedicated user fees? This is not the first time that taxes and fees collected from OHV enthusiasts have been drained for other purposes and that’s unacceptable.”

In the last four budget years, a total of $133 million has been raided from the OHV trust funds for other uses. In fact, in a 2011-12 budget trailer bill, an additional $10 million of dedicated OHV trust funds were taken for the state’s general fund.

No action on the proposal to strip OHV funds was taken during the May 9 hearing. The proposal will be considered again on May 23.

________________________________________
Senator Dutton represents the 31st Senate District that includes portions of Riverside and San Bernardino Counties.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:47 PM   #156 (permalink)
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This is Paul Turcke. Thanks for the positive vibes and continued support of our just cause.

I do want to clarify a misperception or misunderstanding I have noticed in this thread. I have not formed, and do not intend to form, an opinion RE the validity of any possible claims or these issues in general. This "case" turns on issues of law, policy and/or karma which are unique to CA and CA law. I am not a member of the CA bar. With support and sympathy to the friends, compadres & orgs I've met in CA, I have no intention of being admitted to the CA bar or becoming too conversant in the State law, policy or karma of the incredible real estate that was admitted to the Union as CA. I have appeared in limited cases in federal court in the US districts w/in CA, but only involving federal administrative law and procedure which are my areas of practice.

In short, I do not endorse, oppose, or have any opinion RE this effort, except to say that our collective cause for responsible access is just, we are fighting immense and growing forces, and cannot squander resources or friends. I wish you all the best.
Thank you Paul for your post here.

This seems to clear up some "confusion" on your involvement in this matter.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:23 PM   #157 (permalink)
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WOW, this place is scary.

The Off Highway Vehicle Defense Council is now on Facebook so check us out there too.

Thanks for your support!!!

Ken Deeg
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Last edited by Ken Deeg; 05-17-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:25 PM   #158 (permalink)
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WOW, this place is scary.

The Off Highway Vehicle Defense Council is now on Facebook so check us out there too.

Thanks for your support!!!

Ken Deeg
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Yep, this is a place for those who have thick skin.

The only major rule is to not take a personal attack on some one.

Ken, I'm in full support of what the OHVDC is doing. I "liked" it on FB today.

I hope I can help and wish all who are directly involved my best wishes for success. All that participate will have a major impact on the OHV program for years to come.

Welcome to Pirate 4X4.

Glad to have you here.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:54 PM   #159 (permalink)
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You know Duck, I am beginning to believe that anyone "against" this OHVDC is not for public access to public lands.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:02 AM   #160 (permalink)
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You know Duck, I am beginning to believe that anyone "against" this OHVDC is not for public access to public lands.
I can think of a couple of folks that have agenda(s) they are paid to accomplish that just might have an issue with this effort because it might take from their project. In turn, this might affect their pay check.

Perhaps this is the reason some might be against the OHVDC.

BTW, I would hope that all who read this thread are aware of their contribution to the OHVDC as being (please check with your tax professional) tax deductable.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:05 AM   #161 (permalink)
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Yep, this is a place for those who have thick skin.

The only major rule is to not take a personal attack on some one.

Ken, I'm in full support of what the OHVDC is doing. I "liked" it on FB today.

I hope I can help and wish all who are directly involved my best wishes for success. All that participate will have a major impact on the OHV program for years to come.

Welcome to Pirate 4X4.

Glad to have you here.
Thank you very much for all of your support but, the real thanks goes to Amy!!!

Kenny
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I can think of a couple of folks that have agenda(s) they are paid to accomplish that just might have an issue with this effort because it might take from their project. In turn, this might affect their pay check.

Perhaps this is the reason some might be against the OHVDC.

BTW, I would hope that all who read this thread are aware of their contribution to the OHVDC as being (please check with your tax professional) tax deductable.

I think I might need a vacation from this place, why don't a mod go ahead and give me a vacation and spare us the personal attack I am about to make on the Phantomdouch.

Personal enough?
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:01 PM   #163 (permalink)
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This is our last shot - the environmental groups are very successful because they sue - the federal agencies "bow" to them because they are scared of lawsuits and will bend over backwards to appease them.
The environmental groups are successful for a lot of reasons, not just the fact that they sue. They have BILLIONS of dollars. They have full time lobbyists. They have full time employees in Washington and Sacramento. We don't have any of those things. We have a bunch of groups fighting over our plan of attack, who's in charge, who gets the money, what is done with the the money and most of all . . . who is going to get the glory. You folks will cut each other off at the knees to say that YOU are the leader in the fight in order to have some recognition and your moment of fame. Please stop. It's not about you or your group. It's about keeping our lands open. We need to consolidate our energy and resources, not water them down even more.

Every day, the OHV land use groups remind me of the civil rights groups of the 50s and 60s. Fighting over money and notoriety.

IMO, CMRC is the best thing to happen to OHV land use in a long time. Now if only we could do something similar on a national level.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #164 (permalink)
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You know Duck, I am beginning to believe that anyone "against" this OHVDC is not for public access to public lands.


Strong statement Scott...

And a statement that silences people. Is that what we want?
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #165 (permalink)
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I think I might need a vacation from this place, why don't a mod go ahead and give me a vacation and spare us the personal attack I am about to make on the Phantomdouch.

Personal enough?
Ok.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:45 PM   #166 (permalink)
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You know Duck, I am beginning to believe that anyone "against" this OHVDC is not for public access to public lands.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:16 AM   #167 (permalink)
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I can think of a couple of folks that have agenda(s) they are paid to accomplish that just might have an issue with this effort because it might take from their project. In turn, this might affect their pay check.
I think we all know who you're "not" talking about. What "agenda(s)" are you talking about? Let's not pussyfoot around




BTW, everyone has an agenda, we just don't all admit it.



Bill Emmerson is my State Senator, so I just sent him a very nice email. I'll try to meet with him when he's in my area; he has a mobile office out here once a week.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:21 AM   #168 (permalink)
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I think we all know who you're "not" talking about. What "agenda(s)" are you talking about? Let's not pussyfoot around

BTW, everyone has an agenda, we just don't all admit it.
For the sake of keeping this topic on track, please contact me via PM if I can answer any questions for you.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:24 AM   #169 (permalink)
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The environmental groups are successful for a lot of reasons, not just the fact that they sue. They have BILLIONS of dollars. They have full time lobbyists. They have full time employees in Washington and Sacramento. We don't have any of those things. We have a bunch of groups fighting over our plan of attack, who's in charge, who gets the money, what is done with the the money and most of all . . . who is going to get the glory. You folks will cut each other off at the knees to say that YOU are the leader in the fight in order to have some recognition and your moment of fame. Please stop. It's not about you or your group. It's about keeping our lands open. We need to consolidate our energy and resources, not water them down even more.

Every day, the OHV land use groups remind me of the civil rights groups of the 50s and 60s. Fighting over money and notoriety.

IMO, CMRC is the best thing to happen to OHV land use in a long time. Now if only we could do something similar on a national level.
angiebaby,

You forgot the fact that the eco groups are quite happy to get even a small part of what they are after. They are quite willing to fight a slow war of attrition to get on step closer to the final goal. This is how we have gotten to where we are today.

And you are right. All the OHV groups need to remove their craniums from their colorectal canals and get on the same page. Granted noboby will get everything they want, BUT we will start hammering away at the crap going on today.

Another thing that is causing all the problems is the fact that we, as a group, always try to take the moral high road. In this day and age, that "agenda" is as dead as a doornail. We need to get dowm and dirty and adopt some of the eco tactics.

Case in point, last year during the Wallow Fire here in AZ, there was legislation sponsered to remove our National Forests from the whole NEPA and EIS policies. Now the eco's have backed off the Forest Service. The only problem is, is now the AZ National Forests are burning again. Look up the Crown King and Sunflower fires. So I am already beating the drum to have the legislation brought forward and voted on in order to get our forests cleaned up and saved for future generations, i.e., our children. And it is gaining traction.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:39 AM   #170 (permalink)
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We have a bunch of groups fighting over our plan of attack, who's in charge, who gets the money, what is done with the the money and most of all . . . who is going to get the glory
From what I've been told by those in the enviro movement leadership through the years I've been around them; many of these groups have the very same types of issue we face.

The differences between the more local groups (in the enviro camp) and the larger groups is out there if one looks closely.

One of the more recent examples is the Ivanpah Solar project where Brightsource Energy came to a few $$ettlement agreement with some of the big players and another group is still fighting the project in Court.

Go to the LA Times and look for the article from Julie Cart published on April 6, 2012. This will give you some insight on what I'm posting here.

(BTW, I have the article saved in a Word document. PM me if you are interested.)
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:41 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Mr Duck, I have no idea of who you are nor do I have the time to do the research to find out. I have been involved in offroading for a long time. If you want to continue to throw your comments and inuendo out haphazardly I would like to know who you are so I can be sure to avoid any groups you indirectly represent simply because they allow you to do so.

FYI, My name is Dan Fredrickson, I own Ruffstuff Specialties and I give the Off Road Business Association $250 a month because that is one of the few organizations in California not resting on their laurels of past deeds. We need something done today, not 20-30 years ago...

Yes, I know and like Jeff Knoll and he is not someone that gets angry easily but after reading your posts' in this thread even I am angry and I am sure I am not alone. You claim to pick and choose your fights. Why is it that you choose to fight with Jeff Knoll, someone that is making progress...?

I am simply stating an opinion of my gut reaction to you... Your style is that of a grumpy old man, get over yourself. If a moderator see's this as a personal attack they are seeing through rose colored lenses...
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:58 AM   #172 (permalink)
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For the sake of keeping this topic on track, please contact me via PM if I can answer any questions for you.
Actually, I'd rather you say what you have to say publicly instead of hiding behind a pm. It seems like you have something you'd like to get off your chest, so please get on with it. Sounds like I'm not the only curious one.

Right now it kind of looks like sour grapes, so show us it's not.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #173 (permalink)
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It's not about you or your group. It's about keeping our lands open. We need to consolidate our energy and resources, not water them down even more.
Incredibly well-said. Thanks for speaking this so clearly!

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Old 05-19-2012, 12:33 PM   #174 (permalink)
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FYI - While Amy and Corva got the ball rolling to create the OHVDC, the person most responsible for starting it rolling is Ken Deeg, who I see has just joined Pirate.

BTW- Ken is a cop, be nice to him!

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Old 05-19-2012, 01:19 PM   #175 (permalink)
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BTW- Ken is a cop, be nice to him!
Go make that statement in Chit Chat and see how far that gets you
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