ONE ORG...why not??

[Bebe]

This is a National movement to get all Humans out of the Forest. It's not about "this" trail or "that" trail. It's much bigger than that.

Obama is signing over our land and water rights to the UN. And what are we doing about it?

Every trail will be closed.We have to stop it.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll

I have also learned that if you want to influence you better reciprocate some work for legislators, and sad to say buy some influence through campaign donations.

This is what The Trail Political Action Committee (TPAC) is trying to do.

[coachholland]

Originally Posted by kb8ymf

While a umbrella National Organization may 'look' like the answer but as coachholland said all you have to do is tell someone from the east coast that you're spending money in Cali or Johnson Valley, or tell someone from the west coast that you're spending money on Tellico. That's where the 'cooperation' part ends.

You're absolutely correct. And the splits go even further from there. Jeep guy doesn't like Toy guy. Toy guy doesn't like Land Rover guy. Buggy guys look down on the bolt on guys. Nobody likes the trail fleas (side by side/atv guys). ATV guy doesn't like the dirt bike guy. Dirt bike guy doesn't like the mountain bikers. Mountain bikers don't like the horseback riders.

However, we're all in the same boat. In our area even the green hikers and rock climbers have no idea that the agenda if some had it their way they would keep EVERYONE out.

So, the bikers, atv, buggy, jeep, toyota, etc etc etc need to set differences aside and have one voice. The mindset of the offroad enthusiast is that of an individual though and that personality ??flaw?? is what has kept us from forming a strong unified voice. Our rigs are suited to our own tastes and we make them our own. Unfortunately, this individualist carries over into other areas that makes it easy for our enemies to defeat us. Divide and conquer? They're already half way there before the battle starts because we are so divided.

Additionally, the rules are so complex that many are overwhelmed and need a cliff notes "Save Our Trail Guide for Dummies".

Originally Posted by chicago

Yessir!!
I'm not sure how the clubs run back east, but I belong to a lil local landcruiser club here in NV, and we have just recently or will shortly be club members of BRC. Each individual member also are members of BRC and I am also a member of cal4wd.
Why I mention this... Because if you're NOT member of a wheeling club or there are none... Maybe start one and have it be part of that larger organization (BRC, UFWDA etc. )
If your club is NOT affiliated, maybe you can sway them to become affiliated!!
The landuse arena has become sort of MY ROLE in our club.
I only bring this up because this is the foundation of spreading the word and gaining more support.
However... This whole process I think, would be more effective w/ a conglomerate group leading the charge.

I would encourage the leading orgs to look closer at it and at least TRY!!

Id be willing to be part if they'd have me!!

I'm a ho when it comes to who I ride with, so it's not just one club, lol. However, it seems that many of the east coast are the same as out west. BRC, SFWDA, Trail Keepers and more are supported. Additionally, the clubs have their own causes and benefits that they support on a more local level.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by coachholland

Additionally, the rules are so complex that many are overwhelmed and need a cliff notes "Save Our Trail Guide for Dummies".

Here it is . . . http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...unteerism+book

Shortcuts to Landuse and Volunteerism

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by coachholland

You're absolutely correct. And the splits go even further from there. Jeep guy doesn't like Toy guy. Toy guy doesn't like Land Rover guy. Buggy guys look down on the bolt on guys. Nobody likes the trail fleas (side by side/atv guys). ATV guy doesn't like the dirt bike guy. Dirt bike guy doesn't like the mountain bikers. Mountain bikers don't like the horseback riders.

We need to be inclusive, not exclusive. If you keep repeating that, it will be self-fulfilling. Repeat positive messages.

I'm a Toy buggy guy and I give my Jeep driving friends shit, but it stops there. The bolt on Jeep guys and gals are my brothers and sisters. We're all in this together.


I like the UTV's. It's impressive what the little "golf carts" can do, and they're bringing more people out onto the trails--who maybe never had a 4x4 or dirt bike before--to enjoy our public lands.

The mountain bikers are learning that when we go, they're the next ones targeted.

The horseback riders don't get it yet. They don't think the hikers are going after them after the bikers.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by kb8ymf

a umbrella National Organization may 'look' like the answer

As the President of an "umbrella" organization, are you proposing a "world" umbrella group verses our current "national" organizations or in addition to them?

How exactly would either scenario work given the failings you cite of current organizations and the motorized recreating public?

Considering the following exclusionary statement . . . "UFWDA is the only organization that represents full size vehicles only." large national access organizations like the AMA, ACSA, NPBA and many other motorized access organizations would not be included in a national or world umbrella group called UFWDA.

Originally Posted by kb8ymf

State Associations must exist to protect the public land under state control and Federal to some extent. Clubs are spread through out each state hopefully and have to keep an eye on state issues and bring those to the attention of their State Association. This three pronged approach is what we have advocated for years.

In the United States I believe the definition of the "three pronged approach" is local club, state association, and national organization. Where is the third prong in the approach outlined above?

Originally Posted by kb8ymf

Only after we've lost it all will those who are left open their eyes and look around wonder what happened.

Again given all the failings you've cited in fighting the current land access battle here in the U.S., what exactly do you propose to prevent the scenario above from happening?

[navy-jeepster]

I think a national umbrella org could work, but lots of egos would have to be put aside.
The org chart would have individual directors for 4x4, utv/atv, dirt bikes, horses, water sports, and mountain bikes that report to one main CEO type director.
Each department would work together in the land use realm, and donations/dues would be used as needed to fight for public lands.
Volunteers within each state to represent as needed at events to showcase the org.
Marketing plan to get the big and small businesses to donate money and product for events across the nation.
Dues for individuals would be low, along with dues from org's low and encourage them to bring their full membership rosters to the org.
Have a couple of laywers on staff to handle lawsuits and such.
Staff in Washington DC to talk to our elected representatives on a daily basis.

This type of org would require a budget of close to 10 to 15 million per year.
I think it could be done, but again some egos have to be put aside.

Just my thoughts on this issue.
Not winning votes with the current orgs with this idea though.

Todd

[pete4wd]

As the President of an "umbrella" organization, are you proposing a "world" umbrella group verses our current "national" organizations or in addition to them?

Bob, the USA needs to solve it's own problems and UFWDA by having international links is simply using those connections to learn from to help where possible. The environmental movement is not an exclusive US problem; it has tentacles everywhere and tests different techniques in a range of developed countries. Politicians get prompted that a tactic, such as a total closure of beaches to vehicles in South Africa, has successfully been achieved and could be applied locally to possibly gain votes. At least UFWDA has links elsewhere and can research the subsequent downsides to things like tourism, small communities, etc.

Environmental activism came into its own with the internet and the ability to communicate quickly and widely around the world. OHV are still learning.

OHV has not had the advantage of the academia that spawned the 'green' movement. Our 4x4 user base, I believe, has had its roots in 'blue collar' community. We saw it here in New Zealand with the growth of mountain biking where they had lawyers, engineers, horticulturists, etc. who were able to provide professional reports and opinions that supported their alleged 'greenness' and were able to convince public land managers that the bike riders did negligible damage and that their recreation is good for the world. We lost many trails to mountain biking because we could not counter their professional standing.

UFWDA sees the 'world' as a small place now and flow on effects of land use decisions can rear their head almost anywhere.

What UFWDA can't do is directly get involved, as like the USA a legal opinion in one place may not be recognized in another. Local organizations are autonomous and can't be dictated to, only helped and guided if they are willing. A 'national' US land use group would still need local organizations to work with and provide the information about local and regional land access concerns.

What we could do in the USA is be more involved at a Federal level, as we used to be when we had Carla Boucher on a full retainer as our legal representative. We still have Carla with us, but greatly scaled back as the money just isn't available currently. That's the sort of support that UFWDA could bring to a 'national' land use group but the risk is that our existing members and potential future ones are likely to shift their support to a 'national' group leaving the regional/ specialized groups without funding.

Damn, it's that funding thing again! Solving that will be a great start. Todd sees the concept positively and there may be answers in that.

Peter

[LYIN' KING]

Thank you Peter.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by LYIN' KING

Thank you Peter.

DITTO what Lyin'king said!