ONE ORG...why not?? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Land Use Issues
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2012, 08:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56470
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 611
ONE ORG...why not??

It seems to me that, as sad as it is, the one thing ALL land use organizations NEED more than anything is MONEY!! Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know "it's not just about the money" what ever.
This has been brought up before, but I'm wondering if there have been any efforts to get ALL of the major landuse organizations to converge and pool resources and funds to make one huge organization??
Seems that it would be more effective in the fight were facing.
It sucks that education and good deeds go completely un noticed and big money
Greenie organizations have organized do well that they can fund as many lawsuits as they want to get their closures through.
I can't help but think that all these little pro access groups are largely counter productive to the bigger picture.

Just a thought.
__________________
76 FJ40 Mistress Matti, battle maiden!!
Newly converted Land use zealot and soap box preacher!!
chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 09:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 10,166
The challenge with that is getting the various groups to agree on doing the same things. They are often aligned generally but not specifically. Also, they are all understandably 'territorial' and defensive of their own name and brand.

Looking around, it see,s like 4x4 organizations represent 4x4 owners... all a little different, tough to organize, and with varying extremes of independence.

I agree that what you suggest would probably be more productive in the long run, tho,

Randii
randii is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-18-2012, 09:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
I agree, but where do you start? We have been working hard to unify efforts in California under the CMRC, but its still a challenge to keep the delicate balance of ego's in line. I think with time we will be successful, but it is going to take a lot of time.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 12:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56470
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 611
I get the branding and ego issues, but for the good of the access it would seem far more productive to have ONE national organization where WE all filter our memberships and donations to.
I would think that the individual groups could stay in tact under the blanket organization and each could represent THAT larger organization.
I see these issues were all facing to the likes of gun control!!
With looking at the NRA, they are THE VOICE and a STRONG POLITICAL FORCE!!

I just seems that we need an organization like that with all the money one pot to be able to contend with the heavy hitting Eco groups.

I was talking w/ a friend last night who owns a guide business in s. Nevada and the closures where hes at are RAMPANT and it's really restricting his business, not to mention some of the old ranchers that hunt in those areas are NO LONGER able to access the lands they have been hunting for literally, A CENTURY, in some cases.
Where to begin on a merger like this??
Correspondence between the major organizations, I would guess. From there deciding on a name that they all agree on that is NOT their own organizations name. From there making decisions based on the resources of the groups decide who holds what positions and performs what's tasks.

Just a thought.
You all here have way more experience than I do, but just thinking out loud.
__________________
76 FJ40 Mistress Matti, battle maiden!!
Newly converted Land use zealot and soap box preacher!!
chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 12:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56470
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 611
Btw.. I'm simplifying this. I realize that it's not that easy and I do NOT mean to imply that it is.
I'm just more wondering if this idea has been seriously considered by the major organizations in access.
I have three organizations that I have memberships to and each one has one hand waving in one direction and the other in a different direction.
__________________
76 FJ40 Mistress Matti, battle maiden!!
Newly converted Land use zealot and soap box preacher!!
chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 11:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172378
Location: AZ
Posts: 369
chigaco,

U ain't the fisrt to bring this up and you WILL NOT be the last. Like what was said here, ego's still play a large part in our "different" organizations. Everybody wants to be a hero.

The whole secret behind where we are today is incrementalism. None of the eco's got everything they wanted, BUT they were willing to compromise to get a step further towards the ultimate goal.

I have taken a member of a VERY prominent group to task and am still waiting for the person to step up and support a current effort. Tme will tell whether that org. will change with the times or play the status quo and die.

And that person knows exactly who I am talking about. We will see if they have the gall to step up and carry this forward.
Mad Machinist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 07:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Member # 104953
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 62
The concept of one overall land use advocacy organization is an ideal, but where is the basic support for any of the 4x4 organizations... clubs, associations etc?

While the vast majority of individuals either don't want to be a part of groups, or just don't know they exist, then where will the numbers come from? (read money.)

I'm with UFWDA and we have the membership of the Australian national body who represent over 30,000 four wheelers in their clubs. In New Zealand the NZFWDA represents over 2000 club members and that's on a total population of 4 million people. Extend those numbers to the USA and you might have a case.

There is recognition within UFWDA of the potential for a 'greater' organization but tempered by the amount of travel to achieve the needed levels of lobbying and familiarity with the specific issues around the US. Travel and time cost money and frankly it's money that restrains most actions.

The incremental process of access closures has made fighting them difficult in the US. In South Africa the government threatened a major national restriction in the early 2000's and that triggered a positive reaction from businesses and 4x4 enthusiasts who got together to find a way the counter the threat. Sadly the recreation in the US needs a similar crisis to jolt the awareness levels.
__________________
UFWDA international vice-president, Auckland 4WD Club secretary, NZFWDA life member
pete4wd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 08:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 3975
Posts: 2,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete4wd View Post
The concept of one overall land use advocacy organization is an ideal, but where is the basic support for any of the 4x4 organizations... clubs, associations etc?
Here's a State level example of a great (but now defunct) attempt at this type of effort . . . http://www.clorv.org/about/officers.php

Draw your own conclusions.






Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the disclaimer, that's right, the disclaimer. This American apple pie institution known as parental discretion will cleanse any sense of innuendo or sarcasm from the text that might actually make you think and will also insult your intelligence at the same time. So protect yourself. This post contains explicit depictions of things that are real. These real things are commonly known as life. So, if it sounds sarcastic, don't take it seriously. If it sounds dangerous, do not try it at home or at all. And if it offends you, just don't read it!
LYIN' KING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 09:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56470
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete4wd View Post
The concept of one overall land use advocacy organization is an ideal, but where is the basic support for any of the 4x4 organizations... clubs, associations etc?

While the vast majority of individuals either don't want to be a part of groups, or just don't know they exist, then where will the numbers come from? (read money.)

I'm with UFWDA and we have the membership of the Australian national body who represent over 30,000 four wheelers in their clubs. In New Zealand the NZFWDA represents over 2000 club members and that's on a total population of 4 million people. Extend those numbers to the USA and you might have a case.

There is recognition within UFWDA of the potential for a 'greater' organization but tempered by the amount of travel to achieve the needed levels of lobbying and familiarity with the specific issues around the US. Travel and time cost money and frankly it's money that restrains most actions.

The incremental process of access closures has made fighting them difficult in the US. In South Africa the government threatened a major national restriction in the early 2000's and that triggered a positive reaction from businesses and 4x4 enthusiasts who got together to find a way the counter the threat. Sadly the recreation in the US needs a similar crisis to jolt the awareness levels.
I maybe mistaken, but it seems as though we're reaching that point where it's at a crisis level.
I'm just getting the feeling that if egos aren't put aside and we can get a strong momentum going in the right direction well be left with nothing.

I'd really like to hear more from you guys. on this and if it's a consideration, what the issues are on the topic and if it's something that can be worked through.

Strong leaders bring strong followers.

Get a good solid organization that is moving forward and the members will follow.

I for one LOVE the proactive moves being taken by some of the access groups. I think it is inspirational to those of us sitting on the sidelines who are TIRED of watching access taken while the orgs we support try and play nice w/ the Feds and BLM etc. and get our trails stripped away despite writing letters, phone calls volunteerism etc. that to me is finally stepping up and fighting back.
I KNOW im not alone in that, either.
__________________
76 FJ40 Mistress Matti, battle maiden!!
Newly converted Land use zealot and soap box preacher!!

Last edited by chicago; 08-19-2012 at 09:19 PM.
chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYIN' KING View Post
Here's a State level example of a great (but now defunct) attempt at this type of effort . . . http://www.clorv.org/about/officers.php

Draw your own conclusions.
Still around but a small structure and name change. That is CMRC now. CLORV is a subcommittee of CMRC as far as I know.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
I feel so strongly about this idea, that it is one of the reasons I am involved in land use. We have made a lot of headway the last year in California, but I think a bottom up approach is better than top down. Get the various states associations working together then we can try a national or world wide unification effort.

While I support Cal 4 wheel, I don't believe it is the vessel for an overall encompassing association. I see it in middle management. It unifies one aspect in one state. They then pass resources, experience, and information in two directions up and down. Up to the state level OHV association, and down to the states 4wdrive clubs.

CMRC is the umbrella for the entire state of California. Build that in each state, then figure out the national and world wide from there. Not sure if its BRC, or United, maybe its both? Combined? or Neither?

I don't think you are going to get a new world order of OHV groups if someone just steps up and says I am the new messiah of OHV. I believe it will need to be done from the bottom up, and with the painful experience of a committee or congress.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 3975
Posts: 2,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
Still around but a small structure and name change. That is CMRC now. CLORV is a subcommittee of CMRC as far as I know.
I’m sorry they don’t provide trail voting advice.

Since they aren't a 501(c)4 anymore, perhaps they should take down the donation page on their web site before the IRS comes knocking again.

www.fppc.ca.gov/enf_letter/03-19-12/ENF011.PDF

https://www.guidestar.org/organizati...ad-voters.aspx

http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/revokeSe...mitName=Search

Last edited by LYIN' KING; 08-20-2012 at 08:47 AM.
LYIN' KING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 05:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYIN' KING View Post
I’m sorry they don’t provide trail voting advice.

Since they aren't a 501(c)4 anymore, perhaps they should take down the donation page on their web site before the IRS comes knocking again.

www.fppc.ca.gov/enf_letter/03-19-12/ENF011.PDF

https://www.guidestar.org/organizati...ad-voters.aspx

http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/revokeSe...mitName=Search
Its pretty obvious that the website is outdated and not active as the last voter guide is 2010. Long before my tenure and as stated I am not sure of status or who was running it before it was reorganized, but for what its worth it clearly states your donation is not tax deductible.

Thanks for pointing it out, as it raises some house keeping issues that might affect CMRC.

Regardless, I think CMRC is a good thing for California OHV people.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 05:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 3975
Posts: 2,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
Its pretty obvious that the website is outdated and not active as the last voter guide is 2010. Long before my tenure and as stated I am not sure of status or who was running it before it was reorganized, but for what its worth it clearly states your donation is not tax deductible.

Thanks for pointing it out, as it raises some house keeping issues that might affect CMRC.

Regardless, I think CMRC is a good thing for California OHV people.
Up with CMRC, down with web sites that stay up without a valid IRS standing, yet have a 501(c)4 donation mechanism!
LYIN' KING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 09:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYIN' KING View Post
Up with CMRC, down with web sites that stay up without a valid IRS standing, yet have a 501(c)4 donation mechanism!
No one can say I am not a man of action. Made a few calls yesterday on the subject of CLORV. This lead to leadership calling the accountant who handles the taxes for CLORV. Word back this morning is that the IRS is not as timely with removing a bad mark from their web page as applying them. There is some debate on filing taxes above my pay grade as CLORV has had no income in sometime. The website will be put into an under construction mode ASAP, but there is some question as to who currently has the keys to do that, and at the upcoming CMRC BOD Meeting the item will be placed on the agenda for discussion on what to do with it.

Thanks for the heads up. Now I am back onto my current overwhelming project of saving the hammers.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 10:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 3975
Posts: 2,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
No one can say I am not a man of action. Made a few calls yesterday on the subject of CLORV. This lead to leadership calling the accountant who handles the taxes for CLORV. Word back this morning is that the IRS is not as timely with removing a bad mark from their web page as applying them. There is some debate on filing taxes above my pay grade as CLORV has had no income in sometime. The website will be put into an under construction mode ASAP, but there is some question as to who currently has the keys to do that, and at the upcoming CMRC BOD Meeting the item will be placed on the agenda for discussion on what to do with it.

Thanks for the heads up. Now I am back onto my current overwhelming project of saving the hammers.


Right on Jeff . . . the IRS just list their EID and 501(c)4 status as expired, it's not a "bad mark" by my way of thinking. It just means the “charity” is no longer active.

Given the mention of CLORV here many times over the past year or so, I just thought it should be pointed out that they are not currently active (according to the IRS and given their deafening silence).

Thanks for taking the time to try and get at the root of the matter and clarifying this issue to the degree you have!!
LYIN' KING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 09:14 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 140997
Location: Backwoods
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by trkklr77 View Post
there was and still is one major group that all the groups were part of.

you can go down and join them today.



http://www.cal4wheel.com/
No offense, but this is what pisses the east coast guys off. We're pretty much told to fawk off or ignored unless it is something about Johnson Valley, Rubicon or whatever out on the west coast. And yes, I have supported the JC effort even though I have never been there and probably never will. The higher ups at these larger groups could care less when I've asked for help and instead encourage me to "buy 'x' off the website" instead of offering an additional voice to our own fights.
__________________
Save Slade! Check the Land Use Forums!
'95 YJ with a bunch of stuff scattered on the garage floor.

Last edited by coachholland; 08-23-2012 at 09:16 AM.
coachholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 09:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,936
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachholland View Post
No offense, but this is what pisses the east coast guys off. We're pretty much told to fawk off or ignored unless it is something about Johnson Valley, Rubicon or whatever out on the west coast. And yes, I have supported the JC effort even though I have never been there and probably never will. The higher ups at these larger groups could care less when I've asked for help and instead encourage me to "buy 'x' off the website" instead of offering an additional voice to our own fights.
All due respect, we here in CA get told the same (especially me! LOL) and that doesn't stop us.

This is the best place to come to if you need help....we'll find some for you.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 140997
Location: Backwoods
Posts: 104
Thank you Bebe. It's not going to stop me. I know all the battles are important and will support whoever whenever I can regardless of location. We just simply don't have the voice and numbers behind us on this side of the country that we need.

Which I suppose is what the OP of the thread is wanting to address.
__________________
Save Slade! Check the Land Use Forums!
'95 YJ with a bunch of stuff scattered on the garage floor.
coachholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 06:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 54569
Location: South of the 45th parallel
Posts: 15
While a umbrella National Organization may 'look' like the answer but as coachholland said all you have to do is tell someone from the east coast that you're spending money in Cali or Johnson Valley, or tell someone from the west coast that you're spending money on Tellico. That's where the 'cooperation' part ends.

Neither side, nor the middle for that matter, is interested in seeing their dues money spent far away from home. Or anywhere but in their own state. So in just about every situation the group keeps their money to spend on their own state projects. I hear it all the time. I'm not sending money to XX because I will never go to XX.

However if you look at the NRA example as was pointed out by chigago. The national organization is there to represent actions by our Federal government that have national implications on Federal Land. Just like the NRA does. It looks out for gun laws that would set a precedence that states may use to limit and restrict their use and ownership. That is exactly what United has done for 35+. That has been our mission statement since inception in 1974.
UFWDA is the only organization that represents full size vehicles only.

State Associations must exist to protect the public land under state control and Federal to some extent. Clubs are spread through out each state hopefully and have to keep an eye on state issues and bring those to the attention of their State Association. This three pronged approach is what we have advocated for years.

Does everyone have their hand out.....sure do. What activity doesn't cost money these days. Sending Attournys across the country or even to an adjoining state costs money. Lots of it when you consider the suport staff alone required to keep just one Attourny busy. Each group tries to represent as many members as possible but they still are a fly spec in the numbers game when it comes to the overall impact recreation fourwheeling brings to the table. Bottom line we as an interest group are pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things.

There is no simple answer. Each organization will continue to struggle, many on shoestring budgets while the green movement and environmental groups receive donations almost hand over fist from all sort of business for the 'feel good' feeling they get and positive PR they can generate for saving the world for our children and our childrens children.

As Peter pointed out. South Africa came to grips with their crisis. And they responded accordingly. We're long past that in the U.S. but we're always to pre-occupied with other issues of importance. Only after we've lost it all will those who are left open their eyes and look around wonder what happened.

Jim Mazzola - kb8ymf
President - UFWDA
kb8ymf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 06:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56470
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachholland View Post
Thank you Bebe. It's not going to stop me. I know all the battles are important and will support whoever whenever I can regardless of location. We just simply don't have the voice and numbers behind us on this side of the country that we need.

Which I suppose is what the OP of the thread is wanting to address.
Yessir!!
I'm not sure how the clubs run back east, but I belong to a lil local landcruiser club here in NV, and we have just recently or will shortly be club members of BRC. Each individual member also are members of BRC and I am also a member of cal4wd.
Why I mention this... Because if you're NOT member of a wheeling club or there are none... Maybe start one and have it be part of that larger organization (BRC, UFWDA etc. )
If your club is NOT affiliated, maybe you can sway them to become affiliated!!
The landuse arena has become sort of MY ROLE in our club.
I only bring this up because this is the foundation of spreading the word and gaining more support.
However... This whole process I think, would be more effective w/ a conglomerate group leading the charge.

I would encourage the leading orgs to look closer at it and at least TRY!!

Id be willing to be part if they'd have me!!
__________________
76 FJ40 Mistress Matti, battle maiden!!
Newly converted Land use zealot and soap box preacher!!
chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
MotorsportsSolutions
 
Jeff Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13974
Location: Chaos
Posts: 4,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb8ymf View Post
While a umbrella National Organization may 'look' like the answer but as coachholland said all you have to do is tell someone from the east coast that you're spending money in Cali or Johnson Valley, or tell someone from the west coast that you're spending money on Tellico. That's where the 'cooperation' part ends.

Neither side, nor the middle for that matter, is interested in seeing their dues money spent far away from home. Or anywhere but in their own state. So in just about every situation the group keeps their money to spend on their own state projects. I hear it all the time. I'm not sending money to XX because I will never go to XX.

However if you look at the NRA example as was pointed out by chigago. The national organization is there to represent actions by our Federal government that have national implications on Federal Land. Just like the NRA does. It looks out for gun laws that would set a precedence that states may use to limit and restrict their use and ownership. That is exactly what United has done for 35+. That has been our mission statement since inception in 1974.
UFWDA is the only organization that represents full size vehicles only.

State Associations must exist to protect the public land under state control and Federal to some extent. Clubs are spread through out each state hopefully and have to keep an eye on state issues and bring those to the attention of their State Association. This three pronged approach is what we have advocated for years.

Does everyone have their hand out.....sure do. What activity doesn't cost money these days. Sending Attournys across the country or even to an adjoining state costs money. Lots of it when you consider the suport staff alone required to keep just one Attourny busy. Each group tries to represent as many members as possible but they still are a fly spec in the numbers game when it comes to the overall impact recreation fourwheeling brings to the table. Bottom line we as an interest group are pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things.

There is no simple answer. Each organization will continue to struggle, many on shoestring budgets while the green movement and environmental groups receive donations almost hand over fist from all sort of business for the 'feel good' feeling they get and positive PR they can generate for saving the world for our children and our childrens children.

As Peter pointed out. South Africa came to grips with their crisis. And they responded accordingly. We're long past that in the U.S. but we're always to pre-occupied with other issues of importance. Only after we've lost it all will those who are left open their eyes and look around wonder what happened.

Jim Mazzola - kb8ymf
President - UFWDA
From what I have seen, unless we have a person in Washington DC working everyday we will struggle to make the relationships required in influence this system we have put in place to govern us. That takes money and the right person. I don't think we have either at this point.

When I sit across the table and a legislative assistant in DC tells me that a "bill does not go far enough to protect 4x4 interests, but frankly the 4x4 industry is not strong enough and does not have our backs" Followed up by we see you guys at best once a year. That tells me we need to make some changes.

I have also learned that if you want to influence you better reciprocate some work for legislators, and sad to say buy some influence through campaign donations.

SEMA has an office in DC, AMA has an office in DC, ARRA has a representative in DC. 4 wheelers don't in so far as I have seen.
4 wheelers go to DC and thankfully SEMA and AMA help us but a couple times a year is not enough.
__________________
Carrera Performance Group, LLC Off Road Solutions, from Marketing to Management
Jeff Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
Not a Wenzelite
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Member # 44480
Location: Kalispell, MT
Posts: 18,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachholland View Post
No offense, but this is what pisses the east coast guys off. We're pretty much told to fawk off or ignored unless it is something about Johnson Valley, Rubicon or whatever out on the west coast. And yes, I have supported the JC effort even though I have never been there and probably never will. The higher ups at these larger groups could care less when I've asked for help and instead encourage me to "buy 'x' off the website" instead of offering an additional voice to our own fights.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I fought for Tellico, sent a donation, wrote letters and made calls outside of the big online rally.

I may never go there, but your closed trails are my closed trails.
MT4Runner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
Phobohomic
 
fermentor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 55687
Location: sacramento
Posts: 1,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post

I may never go there, but your closed trails are my closed trails.
word
__________________
Dale
RUBICON ROCK HEADS

______________________________________________

R.I.P. Dennis Mayer. W2DWM. Rubicon Rock Head & Pirate of the Rubicon.
fermentor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #25 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,936
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
This is a National movement to get all Humans out of the Forest. It's not about "this" trail or "that" trail. It's much bigger than that.

Obama is signing over our land and water rights to the UN. And what are we doing about it?

Every trail will be closed.We have to stop it.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.