How many shares of a moab coop would you buy? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Mcstiff · 03-02-2004, 12:45 PM

Since the auction is coming up fast (~60 days), I think we need to know how much money could be raised in that time. This will ensure the effort will not fail because of lack of funds.
Please no BS, the figure discussed has been $50 so we will go with that. How many would you buy in the next 40 days?

cruiseroutfit · 03-02-2004, 01:00 PM

Great poll McStiff,

Bu first we need to let everyone know the situation on this matter...

You all remeber the land that was sold a few months back (Lower Helldorado) leaving the trail closed

If you don't remember... see here:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...elldorado.html

Well, the situtaion may happen again... The State Trust Lands is prepared to autcion off 2 more parcels of land in the exact same area, which "may" contain parts of the Strike Ravine and Upper Helldorado trails. We are working with local clubs to determine if those trails are/are not affected by the land sale.

Everyone vote, and stay tuned for the latest info... for up to date info...

Check here:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...b_auction.html

Mcstiff · 03-02-2004, 01:06 PM

Thanks for the specifics Kurt.
Please keep everyone on PBB updated with your (and other RME members) progress, so that we do not defeat ourselves with lack of organization.

cruiseroutfit · 03-02-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mcstiff
...Please keep everyone on PBB updated with your (and other RME members) progress, ...

For sure... as soon as I get more info, I will post it here as well as my website...

If anyone has compelling info regarding the land purchase, etc... please email me...
landuse@cruiseroutfitters.com

Thanks!

papee · 03-02-2004, 01:25 PM

IMHO it would not be a safe investment for one person to buy a bunch of shares as an investment deal. There's too many things to go wrong. It would be cool if many many people would buy just one share. Heck I'd do it and I'm on the east coast.

tsm1mt · 03-02-2004, 01:46 PM

I'm in.

If this isn't a worthwhile "land action fund" I don't know what is.

Fighting land closures is important, but BUYING it eliminates the need to the fight the closure.

Sorta like complaining your land lord doesn't like your bashed up trail rig in the driveway.. BUY A HOUSE.. now you're the prick landlord.

rcurrier44 · 03-02-2004, 01:50 PM

I am in

Greg@RME · 03-02-2004, 01:58 PM

I be down for 4-5 shares.

(I tried to vote, but the damn page kept timing out on me!)

Come on people!! This is you're chance to BUY a piece of Upper Helldorado!!! If we don't act, we're going to loose this trail, just like we lost Lower Helldorado!

Mcstiff · 03-02-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by papee
IMHO it would not be a safe investment for one person to buy a bunch of shares as an investment deal. There's too many things to go wrong. It would be cool if many many people would buy just one share. Heck I'd do it and I'm on the east coast.

I think that the bylaws of the coop would have to include somthing reguarding the resale of the land.
I do not think that anybody should look to profit from this unless it is by knowing that they saved a great trail.

Live Rust · 03-02-2004, 02:07 PM

I've never run helldorado but would like to one day. I'm in.
I would like to be a member of the landed gentry, way cool.

troy

tsm1mt · 03-02-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mcstiff

I think that the bylaws of the coop would have to include somthing reguarding the resale of the land.
I do not think that anybody should look to profit from this unless it is by knowing that they saved a great trail.

That's what I had in mind, and where those bylaws come into play.

You could even make a stipulation that no single person may own more than X (or x%) of shares. This would prevent a hostile take-over.

Limit everyone to no more than 10 shares of the Coop?

You'd need an annual share holder meeting (in this case, lots of Proxy votes!) on some things, a board of directors, etc.. but it doesn't have to be a big involved thing.

Biggest thing you're "buying" is YOUR guaranteed access to this area. Or at least, your own say in whether it remains open or it gets closed (I don't see "us" closing it, of course).

I don't forsee the property being sold for a profit down the road, or even if a fee for access were charged, if I had my way, that money would get rolled back over into new acquisitions - no dividends paid back to the share holders (tho' maybe bein' a share holder is your "lifetime access" no-fee card)

One reason to limit the # of shares.. wouldn't want the Sierra Club deciding to buy a few thousand shares and turning this around on us..

SuperRanger · 03-02-2004, 02:29 PM

4 shares, no BS.

I think there is still a lot to work out. If it didn't work, I would want my money back or want it to go to a similar cause that benefits me.

If it does work, there still needs to be controls on what gets mowed down out there. I would want it governed similarly to the way it has been - good areas get trails but every sqaure foot needs to be dirt with tire tracks.

If this gets farther, let me know.

BayAreaWheeler · 03-02-2004, 02:34 PM

I could promise 2 shares in the next 40 days, possibly one or two more but 2 would be a sure thing.

Mcstiff · 03-02-2004, 02:42 PM

It looks like the next logical step would be to organize a board to facilitate these planned actions. This would not cost any money to organize.
Than the board would have to deal with the paperwork, bylaws ect. After that I guess it would be time for a paypal & bank account to be set up.
Does this sound correct?

tsm1mt · 03-02-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mcstiff
It looks like the next logical step would be to organize a board to facilitate these planned actions. This would not cost any money to organize.
Than the board would have to deal with the paperwork, bylaws ect. After that I guess it would be time for a paypal & bank account to be set up.
Does this sound correct?

That's what I think.

Be sure to set it up such that if our bid for these trails fails, the coop will still exist and continue to seek other opportunities to buy wheelin' land.

Of course, that's assuming you sell the "minimum number of shares" required..

Mcstiff · 03-02-2004, 03:39 PM

Concerning # of shares needed by may 1st; 10% is required at bid and the rest at closing.

GhettoRig · 03-02-2004, 05:33 PM

I think a better way to do this is to set up a fund in the Utah Four Wheel Drive Association specifically for buying this land. Everyone still donates the same amount, but the managment is all done by U4. They can deal with making sure the area doesn't get trashed, making sure taxes get paid, signs are put up, etc... This would eliminate any colflict by different "owners" about how things should be done.

Either way, I'm in. When will we know if Upper Helldorado is in the auction parcel or not?

cruiseroutfit · 03-02-2004, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GhettoRig
...Either way, I'm in. When will we know if Upper Helldorado is in the auction parcel or not?

RR4W are scouting the area on Mar 14th, but as per Jeff Stevens (VP of RR4W) they are 95% sure the land contains Upper Helldorado and parts of Strike Ravine...

SlamChops · 03-02-2004, 07:58 PM

i could be in for at least 2, and i'm sure a few fellow club members would put up a share or 2. i've never been to moab, and i'd really like to go someday...

LandCroozer · 03-02-2004, 08:32 PM

I'm in for 2 shares. Just tell me where to Paypal.

Now, because I would be a part owner, can I write-off an annual trip to Moab on my taxes? I have to check on my investment afterall.. Seriously, anybody got tax advice?

If you're still figuring out how to word the agreement;
I recommend no person, company, organization or family be able to own more than 5% of the coop. If anybody does, they forfeit voting rights on any percentage above 5%. Any transfer of ownership must be approved by a majority of other shareholders. A shareholder may rescind their ownership if they want to or need to, and their shares evenly redistributed to the remaining owners.

-tom

YellowSub1962 · 03-02-2004, 09:11 PM

I'm in for 2 shares, and I like croozer's wording so far...

EDIT: add me for 2 more totalling 4 now

tators · 03-03-2004, 03:35 AM

This is an awesome idea...

vb · 03-03-2004, 08:21 PM

id like to see someone set this up. if the contract is well done id play for 500 to 1000 ( i am buying property personally in colorado for this same reason so funds are tight)
what is the price of the whole to be raised? i might ask the lender for more if i had and idea what the bid range would be

also if this is successful would there be a place for a modest fee from users so that we could perpetuate this in the comeing years?

Csnyder · 03-04-2004, 02:52 PM

I'm in, so long as things are organized effectively.

- Chris

Cahdealme · 03-04-2004, 05:52 PM

same here, I'd go for a couple shares if everything was done correctly.

View Poll Results: In the next 40 days I would buy....
...a share.	31	29.25%
...two shares.	36	33.96%
...three shares.	5	4.72%
...four shares.	14	13.21%
...five shares.	2	1.89%
...more than five shares.	18	16.98%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

03-02-2004, 12:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mcstiff Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3413 Location: Denver, Co USA Posts: 1,323	How many shares of a moab coop would you buy? Since the auction is coming up fast (~60 days), I think we need to know how much money could be raised in that time. This will ensure the effort will not fail because of lack of funds. Please no BS, the figure discussed has been $50 so we will go with that. How many would you buy in the next 40 days? __________________ cuando empezemos, no me di yo cuenta, de que luego tuviera que pagar pero, si se cambie, me muera a acostarme con ti, con ti Last edited by Mcstiff; 03-02-2004 at 01:01 PM.

03-02-2004, 01:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
cruiseroutfit Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Sep 2000 Member # 1858 Location: Sandy, Utah, USA Posts: 3,404	Great poll McStiff, Bu first we need to let everyone know the situation on this matter... You all remeber the land that was sold a few months back (Lower Helldorado) leaving the trail closed If you don't remember... see here: http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...elldorado.html Well, the situtaion may happen again... The State Trust Lands is prepared to autcion off 2 more parcels of land in the exact same area, which "may" contain parts of the Strike Ravine and Upper Helldorado trails. We are working with local clubs to determine if those trails are/are not affected by the land sale. Everyone vote, and stay tuned for the latest info... for up to date info... Check here: http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...b_auction.html __________________ Kurt Williams Cruiser Outfitters - YOUR CRUISER PARTS SOURCE! - ARB - OME - Engel - Helton - AdvAdapt ExpeditionUtah.com U4WDA - Member TLCA #10662 Wasatch Cruisers #028 Mountain Yoats Red Rock 4 Wheelers #789 Mojave Underground kurt@cruiseroutfitters.com

03-02-2004, 01:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mcstiff Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3413 Location: Denver, Co USA Posts: 1,323	Thanks for the specifics Kurt. Please keep everyone on PBB updated with your (and other RME members) progress, so that we do not defeat ourselves with lack of organization. __________________ cuando empezemos, no me di yo cuenta, de que luego tuviera que pagar pero, si se cambie, me muera a acostarme con ti, con ti

03-02-2004, 01:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
tsm1mt Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2071 Location: Helena, MT USA Posts: 5,169	I'm in. If this isn't a worthwhile "land action fund" I don't know what is. Fighting land closures is important, but BUYING it eliminates the need to the fight the closure. Sorta like complaining your land lord doesn't like your bashed up trail rig in the driveway.. BUY A HOUSE.. now you're the prick landlord. __________________ -Tom KE7VUX

03-02-2004, 01:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
rcurrier44 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Member # 15404 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 3,077	I am in __________________ Life begins where the pavement ends!

03-02-2004, 01:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
Greg@RME Granite Guru Join Date: Dec 2000 Member # 2447 Location: Fruita, Colorado Posts: 896	I be down for 4-5 shares. (I tried to vote, but the damn page kept timing out on me!) Come on people!! This is you're chance to BUY a piece of Upper Helldorado!!! If we don't act, we're going to loose this trail, just like we lost Lower Helldorado! __________________ RME4x4.com Utah's Rock Crawling & Offroad Forum

03-02-2004, 02:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Live Rust Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19490 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 89	I've never run helldorado but would like to one day. I'm in. I would like to be a member of the landed gentry, way cool. troy __________________ 1972 FJ40 1997 Lexus LX450 [url]www.wasatchcruisers.org[/url]

03-02-2004, 02:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
SuperRanger Rock God Join Date: Nov 2002 Member # 15084 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 2,390	4 shares, no BS. I think there is still a lot to work out. If it didn't work, I would want my money back or want it to go to a similar cause that benefits me. If it does work, there still needs to be controls on what gets mowed down out there. I would want it governed similarly to the way it has been - good areas get trails but every sqaure foot needs to be dirt with tire tracks. If this gets farther, let me know.

03-02-2004, 02:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
BayAreaWheeler Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Member # 14563 Location: BayArea Ca. Posts: 815	I could promise 2 shares in the next 40 days, possibly one or two more but 2 would be a sure thing.

03-02-2004, 02:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Mcstiff Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3413 Location: Denver, Co USA Posts: 1,323	It looks like the next logical step would be to organize a board to facilitate these planned actions. This would not cost any money to organize. Than the board would have to deal with the paperwork, bylaws ect. After that I guess it would be time for a paypal & bank account to be set up. Does this sound correct? __________________ cuando empezemos, no me di yo cuenta, de que luego tuviera que pagar pero, si se cambie, me muera a acostarme con ti, con ti

03-02-2004, 03:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mcstiff Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3413 Location: Denver, Co USA Posts: 1,323	Concerning # of shares needed by may 1st; 10% is required at bid and the rest at closing. __________________ cuando empezemos, no me di yo cuenta, de que luego tuviera que pagar pero, si se cambie, me muera a acostarme con ti, con ti

03-02-2004, 05:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
GhettoRig Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Member # 3774 Posts: 369	I think a better way to do this is to set up a fund in the Utah Four Wheel Drive Association specifically for buying this land. Everyone still donates the same amount, but the managment is all done by U4. They can deal with making sure the area doesn't get trashed, making sure taxes get paid, signs are put up, etc... This would eliminate any colflict by different "owners" about how things should be done. Either way, I'm in. When will we know if Upper Helldorado is in the auction parcel or not?

03-02-2004, 07:58 PM	#19 (permalink)
SlamChops Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19372 Location: Mobtown, AL Posts: 1,517	i could be in for at least 2, and i'm sure a few fellow club members would put up a share or 2. i've never been to moab, and i'd really like to go someday...

03-02-2004, 08:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
LandCroozer Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 16812 Location: Tacoma, WA Magazine: crawlmag.com Posts: 1,226	I'm in for 2 shares. Just tell me where to Paypal. Now, because I would be a part owner, can I write-off an annual trip to Moab on my taxes? I have to check on my investment afterall.. Seriously, anybody got tax advice? If you're still figuring out how to word the agreement; I recommend no person, company, organization or family be able to own more than 5% of the coop. If anybody does, they forfeit voting rights on any percentage above 5%. Any transfer of ownership must be approved by a majority of other shareholders. A shareholder may rescind their ownership if they want to or need to, and their shares evenly redistributed to the remaining owners. -tom

03-02-2004, 09:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
YellowSub1962 108" Smurfmobile Join Date: Aug 2000 Member # 1494 Location: The Land Of The Free, Thanks To The Brave! Posts: 8,266	I'm in for 2 shares, and I like croozer's wording so far... EDIT: add me for 2 more totalling 4 now __________________ Peter S. Di Primo PSD Enterprises, LLC - Waterjet, laser, metal forming, CNC work, Fiberglass and Carbon work, patterns and molds. No job too small. Prototyping and small production is our specialty, but we have the network to handle large jobs as well. Email me if you need something cut, bent, formed, milled, machined, etc. Founding Member - VCAS4WDC www.axlesnappers.org Help Fight Global Warming- turn your A/C on high and open all your windows. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store - NOT a government agency!!!! Last edited by YellowSub1962; 03-08-2004 at 08:20 PM.

03-03-2004, 03:35 AM	#22 (permalink)
tators Granite Guru Join Date: Feb 2002 Member # 10066 Location: Hendersonville, TN Posts: 652	This is an awesome idea...

03-03-2004, 08:21 PM	#23 (permalink)
vb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Member # 15547 Location: co Posts: 593	id like to see someone set this up. if the contract is well done id play for 500 to 1000 ( i am buying property personally in colorado for this same reason so funds are tight) what is the price of the whole to be raised? i might ask the lender for more if i had and idea what the bid range would be also if this is successful would there be a place for a modest fee from users so that we could perpetuate this in the comeing years? __________________ post 980 virtual protest i am fighting a battle for a public road. will you help me

03-04-2004, 02:52 PM	#24 (permalink)
Csnyder Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12918 Location: Western WA Posts: 319	I'm in, so long as things are organized effectively. - Chris __________________ Trailed, not trailered.

03-04-2004, 05:52 PM	#25 (permalink)
Cahdealme Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 16773 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 231	same here, I'd go for a couple shares if everything was done correctly. __________________ To many damn projects!!!

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