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View Poll Results: In the next 40 days I would buy....
...a share. 31 29.25%
...two shares. 36 33.96%
...three shares. 5 4.72%
...four shares. 14 13.21%
...five shares. 2 1.89%
...more than five shares. 18 16.98%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-02-2004, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How many shares of a moab coop would you buy?

Since the auction is coming up fast (~60 days), I think we need to know how much money could be raised in that time. This will ensure the effort will not fail because of lack of funds.
Please no BS, the figure discussed has been $50 so we will go with that. How many would you buy in the next 40 days?
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Last edited by Mcstiff; 03-02-2004 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Great poll McStiff,

Bu first we need to let everyone know the situation on this matter...

You all remeber the land that was sold a few months back (Lower Helldorado) leaving the trail closed

If you don't remember... see here:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...elldorado.html

Well, the situtaion may happen again... The State Trust Lands is prepared to autcion off 2 more parcels of land in the exact same area, which "may" contain parts of the Strike Ravine and Upper Helldorado trails. We are working with local clubs to determine if those trails are/are not affected by the land sale.

Everyone vote, and stay tuned for the latest info... for up to date info...

Check here:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/lan...b_auction.html
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the specifics Kurt.
Please keep everyone on PBB updated with your (and other RME members) progress, so that we do not defeat ourselves with lack of organization.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mcstiff
...Please keep everyone on PBB updated with your (and other RME members) progress, ...
For sure... as soon as I get more info, I will post it here as well as my website...

If anyone has compelling info regarding the land purchase, etc... please email me...
landuse@cruiseroutfitters.com

Thanks!
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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IMHO it would not be a safe investment for one person to buy a bunch of shares as an investment deal. There's too many things to go wrong. It would be cool if many many people would buy just one share. Heck I'd do it and I'm on the east coast.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm in.

If this isn't a worthwhile "land action fund" I don't know what is.

Fighting land closures is important, but BUYING it eliminates the need to the fight the closure.

Sorta like complaining your land lord doesn't like your bashed up trail rig in the driveway.. BUY A HOUSE.. now you're the prick landlord.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I am in
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I be down for 4-5 shares.

(I tried to vote, but the damn page kept timing out on me!)

Come on people!! This is you're chance to BUY a piece of Upper Helldorado!!! If we don't act, we're going to loose this trail, just like we lost Lower Helldorado!
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by papee
IMHO it would not be a safe investment for one person to buy a bunch of shares as an investment deal. There's too many things to go wrong. It would be cool if many many people would buy just one share. Heck I'd do it and I'm on the east coast.
I think that the bylaws of the coop would have to include somthing reguarding the resale of the land.
I do not think that anybody should look to profit from this unless it is by knowing that they saved a great trail.
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I've never run helldorado but would like to one day. I'm in.
I would like to be a member of the landed gentry, way cool.

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Old 03-02-2004, 02:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mcstiff


I think that the bylaws of the coop would have to include somthing reguarding the resale of the land.
I do not think that anybody should look to profit from this unless it is by knowing that they saved a great trail.
That's what I had in mind, and where those bylaws come into play.

You could even make a stipulation that no single person may own more than X (or x%) of shares. This would prevent a hostile take-over.

Limit everyone to no more than 10 shares of the Coop?

You'd need an annual share holder meeting (in this case, lots of Proxy votes!) on some things, a board of directors, etc.. but it doesn't have to be a big involved thing.

Biggest thing you're "buying" is YOUR guaranteed access to this area. Or at least, your own say in whether it remains open or it gets closed (I don't see "us" closing it, of course).

I don't forsee the property being sold for a profit down the road, or even if a fee for access were charged, if I had my way, that money would get rolled back over into new acquisitions - no dividends paid back to the share holders (tho' maybe bein' a share holder is your "lifetime access" no-fee card)

One reason to limit the # of shares.. wouldn't want the Sierra Club deciding to buy a few thousand shares and turning this around on us..
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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4 shares, no BS.

I think there is still a lot to work out. If it didn't work, I would want my money back or want it to go to a similar cause that benefits me.

If it does work, there still needs to be controls on what gets mowed down out there. I would want it governed similarly to the way it has been - good areas get trails but every sqaure foot needs to be dirt with tire tracks.

If this gets farther, let me know.
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I could promise 2 shares in the next 40 days, possibly one or two more but 2 would be a sure thing.
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It looks like the next logical step would be to organize a board to facilitate these planned actions. This would not cost any money to organize.
Than the board would have to deal with the paperwork, bylaws ect. After that I guess it would be time for a paypal & bank account to be set up.
Does this sound correct?
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mcstiff
It looks like the next logical step would be to organize a board to facilitate these planned actions. This would not cost any money to organize.
Than the board would have to deal with the paperwork, bylaws ect. After that I guess it would be time for a paypal & bank account to be set up.
Does this sound correct?
That's what I think.

Be sure to set it up such that if our bid for these trails fails, the coop will still exist and continue to seek other opportunities to buy wheelin' land.

Of course, that's assuming you sell the "minimum number of shares" required..
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Old 03-02-2004, 03:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Concerning # of shares needed by may 1st; 10% is required at bid and the rest at closing.
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Old 03-02-2004, 05:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think a better way to do this is to set up a fund in the Utah Four Wheel Drive Association specifically for buying this land. Everyone still donates the same amount, but the managment is all done by U4. They can deal with making sure the area doesn't get trashed, making sure taxes get paid, signs are put up, etc... This would eliminate any colflict by different "owners" about how things should be done.

Either way, I'm in. When will we know if Upper Helldorado is in the auction parcel or not?
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Old 03-02-2004, 05:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally posted by GhettoRig
...Either way, I'm in. When will we know if Upper Helldorado is in the auction parcel or not?
RR4W are scouting the area on Mar 14th, but as per Jeff Stevens (VP of RR4W) they are 95% sure the land contains Upper Helldorado and parts of Strike Ravine...
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Old 03-02-2004, 07:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i could be in for at least 2, and i'm sure a few fellow club members would put up a share or 2. i've never been to moab, and i'd really like to go someday...
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm in for 2 shares. Just tell me where to Paypal.

Now, because I would be a part owner, can I write-off an annual trip to Moab on my taxes? I have to check on my investment afterall.. Seriously, anybody got tax advice?

If you're still figuring out how to word the agreement;
I recommend no person, company, organization or family be able to own more than 5% of the coop. If anybody does, they forfeit voting rights on any percentage above 5%. Any transfer of ownership must be approved by a majority of other shareholders. A shareholder may rescind their ownership if they want to or need to, and their shares evenly redistributed to the remaining owners.

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Old 03-02-2004, 09:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm in for 2 shares, and I like croozer's wording so far...

EDIT: add me for 2 more totalling 4 now



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Old 03-03-2004, 03:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This is an awesome idea...
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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id like to see someone set this up. if the contract is well done id play for 500 to 1000 ( i am buying property personally in colorado for this same reason so funds are tight)
what is the price of the whole to be raised? i might ask the lender for more if i had and idea what the bid range would be

also if this is successful would there be a place for a modest fee from users so that we could perpetuate this in the comeing years?
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm in, so long as things are organized effectively.

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Old 03-04-2004, 05:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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same here, I'd go for a couple shares if everything was done correctly.
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