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Old 08-30-2006, 07:22 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam
The only nerve you struck is the one that says that posting that pic is more of a problem than taking the pic. If you can't see how that is an issue, there is nothing that can be done for you.

I choose to generally not respond to you because you are an idiot. You think you are promoting Marlins agenda and you spout off every chance you get.

This whole issue is ugly from every perspective.

I'm not defending Trail Gear. My choice to post now is from the perspective of keeping our trails open, and if you'd like to challenge my track record on that. Bring it.

Calling me an idiot is a sign that I have struck a nerve. Why don't you look at the many posts before mine. Many more pictures were posted. I am not the only one that feels this way. I have never mentioned Marlin or its agenda, because I don't have any idea what their mission statement is. You are the one making it a vendor issue now. By the looks of the last few posts, it looks like I am not the only one that feels this way. You are just pissed because you are used to people rolling over to you.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:34 PM   #152 (permalink)
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The bad thing is, that guy in that piece of crap blazer is from the Fresno area and should no better.
That's Louie.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:43 PM   #153 (permalink)
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I can't believe I'm going to say this.

If the shots of them driving on the beach is Courtright then there is no foul. The lake is private property (SoCal Edison or PG&E).

However I see lots of disregard for the trail that my fellow club members and I work so hard to maintain.

Shame on the hosts for letting their guests get out of hand.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:44 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottrod81
Calling me an idiot is a sign that I have struck a nerve. Why don't you look at the many posts before mine. Many more pictures were posted. I am not the only one that feels this way. I have never mentioned Marlin or its agenda, because I don't have any idea what their mission statement is. You are the one making it a vendor issue now. By the looks of the last few posts, it looks like I am not the only one that feels this way. You are just pissed because you are used to people rolling over to you.
I have already told you that you did strike a nerve. My posting has nothing to do with TG. That's the reason I haven't been posting here. I can't defend the actions of the people that drove on trees. If I did, I'd be a hypocrite. I think this whole mess is just that, a mess. But, I think publicizing more of the mess, which is what you are doing, makes it significantly worse. I cannot defend driving off of the trail. I abhor it too. I have devoted a significant part of my life to fighting the cause. I have called the parties involved personally and let them know my opinion.

As far as people rolling over to me... what world do you live in? I'm a working class guy from the sticks trying to raise a family and do the right thing. Where does that come from?
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:54 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam
I have already told you that you did strike a nerve. My posting has nothing to do with TG. That's the reason I haven't been posting here. I can't defend the actions of the people that drove on trees. If I did, I'd be a hypocrite. I think this whole mess is just that, a mess. But, I think publicizing more of the mess, which is what you are doing, makes it significantly worse. I cannot defend driving off of the trail. I abhor it too. I have devoted a significant part of my life to fighting the cause. I have called the parties involved personally and let them know my opinion.

As far as people rolling over to me... what world do you live in? I'm a working class guy from the sticks trying to raise a family and do the right thing. Where does that come from?

I can't disagree with you about trying to raise a family and do the right thing, but when you single me out, you must single the others out before me who posted pics 1st. I have said my part and we agree to disagree. If you have anything to say to me further, PM me.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:55 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Trail Gear Resolution

It's time to move on, folks, please. The Internet has once again proven to be a hugely powerful tool. Not only have law enforcement authorities engaged on this from our perspective, but it is my understanding that the company has also engaged with the legal authorities to bring this episode to an end.

People make mistakes and get tickets....maybe go to jail too. Outlaws who do it misbehave often need to be banned from trails also. But that does not appear to be the case here. We how have to let the cops and courts do their thing. We did our part as fellow (and concerned) users.

I'm ask that we quit posting pics here and let the evidence be used where it can best help -- not hurt us more. Anyone can read this stuff we post here. Do not forget that. If you have pic that you think I need to share with the authorities, please email it to me. I have quite a collection now, tho. So I think we're covered.

If you've read my stuff on the Rubicon Trail Talk forum, you know that I believe that if a guy stands up to his mistake, takes the heat, and then learns from it, he still has some of my respect. If he lost some in being a dip-wad, and then he tries to gain it back by making a positive difference to our sport, then I'm the first guy to give him a another chance.

I speak from 40 years of motorized recreation and 25 years of fighting to keep our public lands open and user-friendly to us. I say we've made our point here, and this matter is in the right hands now.

thanks for listening,
Del
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Last edited by Jeepndel; 08-30-2006 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:58 PM   #157 (permalink)
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You have my cooperation
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:55 PM   #158 (permalink)
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More tree climbing. It disappeared because they are deleting them as we speak.

Please tell me what is wong with that picture. For those of you who have never been to the dusy that DEAD tree is ON the trail!!! When i cought up to the group people were ramping there trucks there, I made a comment to someone that they were ghay for being in the high sierras and wanting to ramp there truck. But i drove my no lift IFS 4runner up as well. I dont see putting your tire on that tree being anymore harmfull than rubbing your rim/bumper/slider/body across any number off trees across that trail. Why arent we all bitching about driving over the roots and bases of the living trees THAT LINE THE TRAIL!!? THAT HAVE TO BE DRIVEN OVER! Or the bark missing from the trees that are intentionally left on that trail each year? You either believe we should never touch the trees with our trucks or we can. None of this "vegatarian that eats fish" crap. If you think that pic is totally unacceptable then you should sell your 4x4 and fight to close the trail for good. Because on that trail, TREES GET HIT.

There were HUNDEREDS of tree's along the 33 miles that are NEARLY UNAVOIDABLE. Its part of the trail, thats why the marked up trees that line the trail are still there after all these years of being "touched". The forest service and people who maintain the trails would have cut them down if "touching a tree on the trail" was an unacceptable action. Some of you act as if people were racinjg through meadows and doing donuts in the streams.

The ranger that was in our "beach" camp the first night told me that tree removal was one of the main factors in opening the trail each year. (along with snow and mud) And he said nothing about camping on the beach. He even went a few miles into the trail with us in his forest issued Jeep wrangler with 33's, ARB's and an atlas.

I can only speak for the few rigs i was around most of the trail. (with the ifs and 31" A/T's i was playing catch-up all weekend ) But i saw nothing wrong with any of the wheeling we did. I did manage to lose my drivers side front bumper cap on the trail (to an offending tree) and didnt notice it was gone untill i stopped again about an hour later, But im sure the next guy to come along and see it would pick it up, just as we picked up trash that fell from others before us.

Well, on a good note, I had a awesome time and managed to drag my DD 87 4runner all the way through with only 2 times on the winch and a couple handfulls of stacked rocks. It was absouluteley beutiful and i plan on going back for years to come. I didnt get to many pics. I had my hands full all weekend, much harder than i expected. The little 4runner did great for its first time in 4wd!

Smoke on the water friday moring at courtright.


Doing a little fishing.


The beast that made it all the way through.


Jays truck.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:26 PM   #159 (permalink)
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I am done with this issue and respecting Del's Comments.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:31 PM   #160 (permalink)
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I am done with this issue and respecting Del's Comments.
About what i figured you would say. However you are not respecting dels comments. If you were you would have read his post and deleted the pic you have posted. Though i dont think its a bad pic, The people who wish to put an end to our sport/pastime, do.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:58 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I will delete my pick, but why don't you ask everybody else to delete theirs. Mine is only one of many.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:18 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I will delete my pick, but why don't you ask everybody else to delete theirs. Mine is only one of many.

What grade are you in? I didnt ask you to delete that pic, Del did and then you replied to him saying he had your cooperation, but you didnt delete that pic.

Now i see its deleted and i thank you. But please, tell me what YOU think was wrong about that pic. Have you ever been on that trail?
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:24 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Yes I have and I am from the area. I don't think that I have to give you an answer what was wrong with that pic, you know. With greenies going through there and seeing tire tracks on that tree, you know what they would think. I don't think del was just pointing to the one picture that I posted. You shouldn't have been doing that anyways. If that's what you choose to do in So. Cal then keep it down there. Otherwise, abide by the rules.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:38 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Yes I have and I am from the area. I don't think that I have to give you an answer what was wrong with that pic, you know. With greenies going through there and seeing tire tracks on that tree, you know what they would think. I don't think del was just pointing to the one picture that I posted. You shouldn't have been doing that anyways. If that's what you choose to do in So. Cal then keep it down there. Otherwise, abide by the rules.

So then i must be retarded. Show me the difference (as far as the eco nazis are concerned) between hurting a tree on the trail THAT IS UNAVOIDABLE, and one that is avoidable.

THERE ARE NO TIRE TRACKS ON THAT TREE! Nobody was burning out on it. There are however TONS of tire marks on the bases and roots of the trees that, wait for it.......ARE UNAVOIDABLE!!! And since you have been on the trail before you would know that there are TONS of trees that are bark damaged because they are tight to the trail. It looks like people have been hitting them with thier bodys for years. If you think that putting the rubber of your tire on a tree that is aprox 25* is worse than rubbing the bark off with the body of a truck THEN YOU ARE RETARDED!

If you really cared about trees being slightly damaged then you would NEVER go up there with a 4x4. You would be fighting to close this trail down to OHV use. It is clear to me that you have an agenda to bash trail gear any chance you get.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:44 PM   #165 (permalink)
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If I have an agenda bashing TG, then you have an agenda defending them.. How do you like them apples. You need to look at the thread in the landcruiser forum. If I just about bashing TG I would have posted there. Did somebody call you on this issue so you would post up?
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:51 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Did somebody call you on this issue so you would post up?



Please reply to the rest of my post. I want to hear you answer.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:58 PM   #167 (permalink)
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I don't think you get it. Maybe you are just unable to comprehend or too old. Anything that is off the trail will come under scrutiny. This is not the hammers where you can drive where you want. You must stay on the trail itself and not deviate from it. The one who might be RETARDED is you!
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:07 AM   #168 (permalink)
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So then i must be retarded. Show me the difference (as far as the eco nazis are concerned) between hurting a tree on the trail THAT IS UNAVOIDABLE, and one that is avoidable.

THERE ARE NO TIRE TRACKS ON THAT TREE! Nobody was burning out on it. There are however TONS of tire marks on the bases and roots of the trees that, wait for it.......ARE UNAVOIDABLE!!! And since you have been on the trail before you would know that there are TONS of trees that are bark damaged because they are tight to the trail. It looks like people have been hitting them with thier bodys for years. If you think that putting the rubber of your tire on a tree that is aprox 25* is worse than rubbing the bark off with the body of a truck THEN YOU ARE RETARDED!

If you really cared about trees being slightly damaged then you would NEVER go up there with a 4x4. You would be fighting to close this trail down to OHV use. It is clear to me that you have an agenda to bash trail gear any chance you get.
The issue is not just one tree that was dead. DId you look at the other pics or did you just fail the see that they were not on the trail at all. The tree that are damaged and unavoidable are part of the trail. Those are not the issue. The issue is the trees off the trail, the streams, and rocks off the trail. This is not a wide open area as you know. This trail is like the rubicon to the central valley. We dont like to see people destroy something that we work hard to keep open. NOw as Del Said why dont we give this a rest and let the proper people handle this.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:08 AM   #169 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottrod81
I don't think you get it. Maybe you are just unable to comprehend or too old. Anything that is off the trail will come under scrutiny. This is not the hammers where you can drive where you want. You must stay on the trail itself and not deviate from it. The one who might be RETARDED is you!

The one missing the point here is you. He is refering to the pic that shows the full bodied rigs flexing on a tree that is DEAD and ON THE TRAIL.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:09 AM   #170 (permalink)
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So then i must be retarded. Show me the difference (as far as the eco nazis are concerned) between hurting a tree on the trail THAT IS UNAVOIDABLE, and one that is avoidable.

THERE ARE NO TIRE TRACKS ON THAT TREE! Nobody was burning out on it. There are however TONS of tire marks on the bases and roots of the trees that, wait for it.......ARE UNAVOIDABLE!!! And since you have been on the trail before you would know that there are TONS of trees that are bark damaged because they are tight to the trail. It looks like people have been hitting them with thier bodys for years. If you think that putting the rubber of your tire on a tree that is aprox 25* is worse than rubbing the bark off with the body of a truck THEN YOU ARE RETARDED!

If you really cared about trees being slightly damaged then you would NEVER go up there with a 4x4. You would be fighting to close this trail down to OHV use.
Read it again hotrod, and please, reply to it this time.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:13 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Read it again hotrod, and please, reply to it this time.

That's hottrod with 2 t's and if you have a problem, you can PM me for now on. This thread is getting too long.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:15 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Why dont you read this again MAX and let it go and respect Del at least. My dont you PM him if you have a problem. Del is working on this and this thread is like beating a dead horse.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepndel
It's time to move on, folks, please. The Internet has once again proven to be a hugely powerful tool. Not only have law enforcement authorities engaged on this from our perspective, but it is my understanding that the company has also engaged with the legal authorities to bring this episode to an end.

People make mistakes and get tickets....maybe go to jail too. Outlaws who do it misbehave often need to be banned from trails also. But that does not appear to be the case here. We how have to let the cops and courts do their thing. We did our part as fellow (and concerned) users.

I'm ask that we quit posting pics here and let the evidence be used where it can best help -- not hurt us more. Anyone can read this stuff we post here. Do not forget that. If you have pic that you think I need to share with the authorities, please email it to me. I have quite a collection now, tho. So I think we're covered.

If you've read my stuff on the Rubicon Trail Talk forum, you know that I believe that if a guy stands up to his mistake, takes the heat, and then learns from it, he still has some of my respect. If he lost some in being a dip-wad, and then he tries to gain it back by making a positive difference to our sport, then I'm the first guy to give him a another chance.

I speak from 40 years of motorized recreation and 25 years of fighting to keep our public lands open and user-friendly to us. I say we've made our point here, and this matter is in the right hands now.

thanks for listening,
Del
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:15 AM   #173 (permalink)
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both of you guys need to knock it off already... just put the issue to bed. For Christ sake you sound like a couple of Gheys. seriously though, this is mind numbing to read you 2 back and forth ( Max Volume , and hottrod81 ) just give it a rest and let the submitted evidence run it's course. we all know what being on the trail and being off the trail means. that's it enough. lock the thread.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:29 AM   #174 (permalink)
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both of you guys need to knock it off already... just put the issue to bed. For Christ sake you sound like a couple of Gheys. seriously though, this is mind numbing to read you 2 back and forth ( Max Volume , and hottrod81 ) just give it a rest and let the submitted evidence run it's course. we all know what being on the trail and being off the trail means. that's it enough. lock the thread.

Ok. ill go to bed, but first what kind of a name is rockhugger?

I slammed and bashed lots of rocks with my no lift 4runner this weekend. They bent my IFS skid plate, A-arms, crossmember, pass rock slider, fender, cat, gas tank skid, etc. I propobly left alot of marks on the rocks, they sure left alot on my 4runner. Are you going to turn me in?

:blackflipoff2:
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:36 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Ok. ill go to bed, but first what kind of a name is rockhugger?

I slammed and bashed lots of rocks with my no lift 4runner this weekend. They bent my IFS skid plate, A-arms, crossmember, pass rock slider, fender, cat, gas tank skid, etc. I propobly left alot of marks on the rocks, they sure left alot on my 4runner. Are you going to turn me in?

:blackflipoff2:
I dont know who you are but you just cant give it a rest. I know that I will never buy any parts from someone that acts like this.

Uget it

To answer your question, I am a long time Luker and never registered. I felt I needed to because this issue was in my back Yard.
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