Route Designation FAQ - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Land Use Issues
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2007, 10:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,406
Blog Entries: 1
Route Designation FAQ

THIS IS STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS!!!

I just wanted to get it up on the board ASAP. There are many things and defintions that still need to be added, I am sure Randii, Rick and John will want to change things. Please feel free to add to this or e-mail me so I can edit this post. I want and need your input.

Kurt

Kyburz Krawlerz

ROUTE DESIGNATION FAQ
Please read at your own risk, the author will not be held responsible for the fit of rage you will go into after reading about what is going to happen to your National Forests.

Due to the lack of understanding of what the Route Designation Process is and how it will affect public access to public lands, this post will break it down into layman’s terms. One huge reason the general public is not up in arms over the project is because of sheer ignorance of the project. Please feel free to add any bullet points to this post.

Q. What will Route Designation do?

A. The Route Designation Process (RDP) could and will close literally tens of thousands of miles of roads, trails and campsites in National Forests nation-wide. Some forests such as El Dorado National stand to lose over 2,500 miles worth of roads and trails.

Q. Why is this happening?


A. Forest Service got sued by the greenies because of mismanagement of the forests. A court order came down saying (basically) the Forest Service needs to take an inventory of all routes in the forest and re-designate them. Not necessarily CLOSE routes, (even though that is what they are doing) but in their words:

The Forest Service wants to improve its management by balancing the public's enjoyment of using OHVs with ensuring the best possible care of the land. At the national level, the Forest Service is revising its policy governing the use of wheeled motor vehicles to develop a system of roads, trails and areas designated for motor vehicle use. This new policy will still provide public opportunities for motorized and non-motorized recreation, while enhancing protection of habitat and aquatic, soil, air and cultural resources.

yeah, right...

Q: So what’s the big deal?

A: TENS OF THOSANDS of miles of roads and trails, many which have been in use for decades, will be closed. This will severely limit access to public lands by the public. Many of the roads that will be closed are spur routes that lead to primitive campsites. Once these roads, trail and campsites are removed, they will be lost FOREVER. It does not matter if a fire-road or logging trail has been in use for 20+ years or if you have camped there forever. If it is not on the final map released by the Forest service, it’s gone for good. This will be the biggest change in the National Forest system in HISTORY.


Q: We got groups like the Blue Ribbon Coalition and FOTR fighting against this right?

A: Yes, HOWEVER, the way the RDP is set up; INDIVIDIUALS need to argue for as many routes, trails and campsites as possible. YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE FIGHT UP TO SOMEONE ELSE! We need a massive response to RDP in every National Forest.

Q: So, who will this affect?

A: These closures will not only effect the 4x4 community, but MX and ATV riders, campers who use dispersed camping, hunters and basically anyone who wants to travel through a National forest in a motor vehicle.

Q: Where will this happen?

A: RDP will happen in EVERY National Forest, if it is not already underway in a forest near you, it will be soon.

Q: Why isn’t there a huge outcry from the 4x4 community?

A: Many people have NO idea or do not understand what the RDP will do to their National forests. If they knew, the public outcry from many groups would be massive. The wording and definitions used by the Forest service are often very confusing. Hence, this FAQ. Another problem is the apathy in the 4x4 community towards Land-use. Many people think groups such as Blue Ribbon can and will do all the work, but in this instance they cannot.

Q: So all is lost right?

A: OH HELL NO! Once the Forest Service picks it’s final Draft, the public has 45 days to comment on and argue for routes, trails and campsites to be put back on the map. It’s kinda like a town meeting, If you do not do this, you have no legal ground to stand on later to fight for a route.

Q: So what can I do?

A: Get involved! NOW! Make sure everyone you know responds during the 45 day comment period. Get on the forest service e-mail list. Pass out flyers on the route designation process in a National Forest near you. Post on various message boards on the internet to spread the news. ELDO National will be holding meetings all over NorCal after the final Draft is picked on the 20th. GO TO ONE OF THOSE!!!

Q: How do I find out if my campsite, trail etc is on the chopping block?


A: At least for El Dorado National, they have created 5 alternative maps. Alternative “A”, is a complete inventory of all the roads and trails in the forest. The other 4 maps are versions that they will pick from. They pick the one they want in ELDO on July 20th, that’s when the public comment period begins. You will need to compare the inventory map against the new map from the forest service. YOU MUST DO THIS! We will not know which alternative the Forest Service will pick until July 20th (for ELDO), but it is best to be prepared. Check all your normal areas you 4 wheel, camp, hunt, fish etc. in.

Eldo’s alterantive maps can be seen here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/pro...es/index.shtml



Q: how does this whole thing happen? What are the steps?

A: It’s a five step process:


a. The Forest Service does an inventory of all existing roads and trails used by off-road vehicles and compile the info. This includes “user-created” roads that the forest service does not manage.

b. They issue an order prohibiting wheeled vehicles on these routes until the project is over.

c. The forest service proposes a new map (or multiple alternative maps) of the forest with routes designated and/or removed from the maps. Supposedly this is done with public input.

d. The Forest service releases a draft map with which routes will be for off-road use and which routes will be closed.


e. The public has a forty-five day window to argue for these routes to remain open. (or closed for that matter)

f. The forest service makes a “final-final” map of the forest identifying their “approved” routes.


Q: So is the Rubicon safe?


A: Yes........ and no. Since the trail is a county road, the Forest Service cannot mess with it, BUT many of the spur routes and bypasses off the 'Con are on the chopping block. forget driving off the trail to camp....

Major spur routes or portions of the 'Con on the chopping block:
* Old True Sluice
* long bypass north of Little Sluice, feeds into Thousand Dollar Hill
* bypasses near Devil's Postpile
* spur routes near Buck Island, especially below the dam
* McKinstry access to Ellis Creek

If the forest service closes 2,500 miles of OTHER trails in the forest, (Including Barrett Lake trail which is on the chopping block) where do you think those users are going to go? You think the 'Con is packed now, wait until after route dez....

One thing that may really hurt us in the future is now you will have a greater amount of users in a smaller area, thereby creating more damage and giving the "Other side" more ammo to close even more trails. It's a catch-22. They really got us cornered with this one...

Q: So really, how bad is all this?

A: Here are two sample maps of the same exact area in ELDO National forest. This is maybe 40 square miles worth of roads off of Iron Mountain/Silverfork road. The first map is the current inventory of trails, notice the numbered routes. Very few if ANY of these are single track trails, mostly dirt forest roads. I personally know this area VERY WELL.

The second map is what would happen if Alternative D is picked on the 20th. "There is a worse alternative than this!" To make it even WORSE notice the routes that do not have a red line thru them. That means green-stickers are not allowed on them anymore. (ATV'S Dirt Bikes etc)



Potential AFTER route Dez




More coming soon, including defintions of terms.
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.

Last edited by Kurtuleas; 07-13-2007 at 12:28 PM.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 10:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
JW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 222
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 1,365
Thank you for the explantation but what does a person do that does not know of the less popular trails/roads/campsites, just pic some that are on the inventory map and do not show up on the alternative map and say "I want these becuase I have been going there since birth"?

I have cut and pasted this and emailing to everyone I know.

Thanks,
JW
__________________
"See that double? Do that double!
If you start thinking about it, you'll never do it. People who think too
much end up living longer, making more money, vacationing in Tavarua,
marrying wisely and investing well-but they don't clear as many doubles."

budbuilt.com & highangledriveline.com
JW is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-11-2007, 11:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Member # 13471
Location: danville,CA
Posts: 1,091
Regarding the comment period.
I would like to see someone who has some knowledge of this process (much more than I) make a cookie cutter form that we can fire out to all our friends and make it very easy to send in.

I heard nothing that said this would not be allowed durring yesterdays phone meeting and did not bring it up myself in order to not give them a chance to say "no you can't do that".

My understaning is they have a LEGAL responsibility to "hear" all comments within the 45 day period. WE NEED TO FLOOD THEM WITH COMMENTS! this would be the best way.

Agreed?
__________________
Jeff Mello

Rage 4th "safety is our #2 concern"
raceanything is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 12:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,406
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JW View Post
Thank you for the explantation but what does a person do that does not know of the less popular trails/roads/campsites, just pic some that are on the inventory map and do not show up on the alternative map and say "I want these becuase I have been going there since birth"?

That is why we are collecting a list of routes and campsite that MAY be on the chopping block now. We plan on supplying a list of common trails and campsites to as many people as possible, with possible reasons to keep them open.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raceanything View Post
Regarding the comment period.
I would like to see someone who has some knowledge of this process (much more than I) make a cookie cutter form that we can fire out to all our friends and make it very easy to send in.

This is being done by Rick (WLDWUN) and Randii I believe. We may even include a template on the back of the newer route designation flyer that we will be passing out. Look for this soon....


My understaning is they have a LEGAL responsibility to "hear" all comments within the 45 day period. WE NEED TO FLOOD THEM WITH COMMENTS! this would be the best way.
Yup!! We need a MASSIVE response!
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 01:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,406
Blog Entries: 1
BTT


Here sticky, sticky, sticky....

Where's my sticky mods?
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 08:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
1962 YellowSubmarine
 
YellowSub1962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1494
Location: The Land Of The Free, Thanks To The Brave!
Posts: 8,310
I will sticky it at your request, but traditionally stickies get overlooked and a lot less traffic than a thread that bounces around near the top of a forum with good discussion...


__________________
Peter S. Di Primo - Waterjet, laser, metal forming, CNC work, Fiberglass and Carbon work, patterns and molds. No job too small.
Prototyping and small production is our specialty, but we have the network to handle large jobs as well.
Email me if you need something cut, bent, formed, milled, machined, etc.


Ventura County Axle Snappers 4 Wheel Drive Club

Help Fight Global Warming- turn your A/C on high and open all your windows.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store - NOT a government agency!!!!
YellowSub1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 09:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,513
True that!! I would also change the title to "Region 5" or "Eldorado" as this is general land use forum.

BTT for ya!
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
Racer Jack tm
Almar Mfg 530-333-2496

Find us on Facebook
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 08:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Harlee&Tahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Member # 89784
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posts: 48
Angry

What about the American Disabilities Act?
These trail closures will affect those that can no longer hike,bike,or ride horses due to disabilities.
Harlee&Tahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 02:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,513
How long has the DEIS been posted?? It is up now. Downloading as we speak.

Preferred alternative D

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/pro...is/index.shtml
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
Racer Jack tm
Almar Mfg 530-333-2496

Find us on Facebook

Last edited by cruzila; 07-13-2007 at 02:05 PM.
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 09:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3622
Location: Lakeside, CA
Posts: 1,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlee&Tahoe View Post
What about the American Disabilities Act?
These trail closures will affect those that can no longer hike,bike,or ride horses due to disabilities.
Do not rely on the ADA.

Congress has taken that out of the equation.

Unless, you can find someone and a bank roll big enough to push it.....

However, keep the issue front and center.....
__________________
John Stewart, KF6ZPL
Moderator, MUIRNet-News - [url]www.muirnet.net[/url]
kf6zpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 10:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 62884
Location: pollock pines, ca
Posts: 1,390
the DEIS was just loaded online today, it is not officaily out until the Federal Register is printed next friday 7/20
I picked up a cd in Placerville today....
WLDWUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 10:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 62884
Location: pollock pines, ca
Posts: 1,390
John,

what is the best way to fight for having OHV use on routes that are dirt roads? it makes no sense that they are making these roads open only to street legal only vehicles

Rick
WLDWUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 10:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
savage
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1730
Location: Rio Linda, Ca
Posts: 1,794
why do I have to argue for specific roads?? isn't part of the point of going up there and camping to explore a bit? find a new spot? Why can't I list every closed trail and say that, "these should ALL be open because me and a lot of other people haven't even seen them yet"????

why the hell can they close things without ANY reason besides having less? What about the massive damage of concentrating the existing (and growing) activity onto an area not even half the size of before? Hows that going to help besides getting more things closed off?
__________________
"they've lowered the speed limit to zero and banned reverse"
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 11:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
savage
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1730
Location: Rio Linda, Ca
Posts: 1,794
anyone have a flyer to start handing out yet? this is bullshit, most people don't even know whats going on...
__________________
"they've lowered the speed limit to zero and banned reverse"
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 11:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3622
Location: Lakeside, CA
Posts: 1,402
Rick:

I wish I knew the magic formula....

Personally, I try to stick with non-descriptive words when I push issues in front of the agencies.

For example, I use "route" rather than trail or road.

I do not like the term OHV or off-road and try to refrain from using them.

I use vehicle (or motorized), rather than jeep, dirtbike, ATV, or buggy.

I have found problems on terminology between Forest Service and BLM.

In general, Forest Service seems to create a difference between vehicles based on "street-legal". For the FS, they deal with county roads mixed with Forest Service roads. As such, rules concerning travel on county roads are easy to incorporate into rules for travel on FS roads. That means it is easy for them to prohibit travel to non-street legal vehicles on travel systems where general public is expected to be found.

State Vehicle Code supports that non-street legal vehicles are prohibited from using public roads; unless variances have been applied for and obtained by the county. Mendocino and Shasta stand to lose several routes because there is no way they can be continuous without travel on a public road.

Whether you are talking FS or BLM, the key factor is the county. If the county assigns a certain classification to the route within their county transportation plan, it is only open to motorized traffic where the vehicle is in compliance with state vehicle licensing and meet Federal Department of Transportation qualifications as a vehicle that can be licensed and driven on public roads.

The county can apply for a variance to allow non-street legal vehicles to cross or use for a short distance a public road. Or, depending on the level of county involvement, the county can permit non-street legal traffic. That is the basic underlying rule that let non-street legal vehicles on the Rubicon (i.e. unmaintained county road).

So, the core issue revolves around the county and the agency. Basically, is the county willing to step up and assume responsibility for a route that is within the agencies responsibility?

It can be done. However, is there willingness on the part of the county to push the issue???

When you take the county out of the equation, the FS deals with 5 levels of roads. In general, "OHV" traffic is limited to Level 2 routes. Level 1 routes are open only to official/administrative access. I don't appear to have the full info on the levels on my laptop.

Without digressing further, the best tact to follow is to argue for access to Level 1-3 routes without getting into the street-legal argument. The underlying issue is to maintain motorized access to routes. The details on equipment specifics can be argued later.

Knowing that on some routes, county enforcement of state vehicle code will apply, I would argue that it is better to keep county/state vehicle code issues away from federal route issues.

Then, if the agency decides to assign a vehicle/equipment specific criteria, it is easier to argue against.
__________________
John Stewart, KF6ZPL
Moderator, MUIRNet-News - [url]www.muirnet.net[/url]
kf6zpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2007, 11:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3622
Location: Lakeside, CA
Posts: 1,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottz View Post
why do I have to argue for specific roads?? isn't part of the point of going up there and camping to explore a bit? find a new spot? Why can't I list every closed trail and say that, "these should ALL be open because me and a lot of other people haven't even seen them yet"????

why the hell can they close things without ANY reason besides having less? What about the massive damage of concentrating the existing (and growing) activity onto an area not even half the size of before? Hows that going to help besides getting more things closed off?
Look at my comments under thread: /forum/land-use-issues/596097-important-eldo-phone-meeting-notes.html

Route Designation: the latest REALITY show.......
__________________
John Stewart, KF6ZPL
Moderator, MUIRNet-News - [url]www.muirnet.net[/url]
kf6zpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 12:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 62884
Location: pollock pines, ca
Posts: 1,390
John,
thank you for your comments.
I just cannot understand why the forest service seems to be taking this to such extremes here in Eldorado. is it just me? we are losing 50+% of our roads, not unauthorised trails..but forest service signed, number and named roads. I dont care if they are dead end routes, they have been there, they do no harm and should continue to exist.
ok do you think I am frustrated yet?

next question.
what does it take to remove a forest supervisor?
this gentleman does not have the best interst of the people in mind. he has no knowledge of THIS forest. put the route designation process aside, what would it take?

Rick
WLDWUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 07:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
BEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1746
Location: Flathead Lake MT
Posts: 3,783
I found these nicely done maps of the EDC forest road closures.

http://pd.global.playstream.com/SOC/...ive/trails.swf
__________________
Still Politically Uncorrect
BEAR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 11:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDWUN View Post
John,
thank you for your comments.
I just cannot understand why the forest service seems to be taking this to such extremes here in Eldorado. is it just me? we are losing 50+% of our roads, not unauthorised trails..but forest service signed, number and named roads. I dont care if they are dead end routes, they have been there, they do no harm and should continue to exist.
ok do you think I am frustrated yet?

next question.
what does it take to remove a forest supervisor?
this gentleman does not have the best interst of the people in mind. he has no knowledge of THIS forest. put the route designation process aside, what would it take?

Rick
This supervisor has not made any decisions. Ousting him will be a waste of time unless you can provide a replacement that is interested in OHV. The work is being done by teams within the FS. Anthony was at the helm for much of the decision making. He is gone. What are you expecting them to replace him with Hillary? Focus on the routes. Focus period. Cool off, start looking at routes and getting others to provide input to you. Build your team.


Scott

ps threatening a federal officer is taken at the highest of seriousness. Watch your comments in public.
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
Racer Jack tm
Almar Mfg 530-333-2496

Find us on Facebook
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 11:16 AM   #20 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDWUN View Post
John,
thank you for your comments.
I just cannot understand why the forest service seems to be taking this to such extremes here in Eldorado.

Rick
Eldorado is the first forest to complete route dez. I would suspect there might be similar action in other forests. None that i know of have gotten to the alternative stage yet. All we can do is stay informed.
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
Racer Jack tm
Almar Mfg 530-333-2496

Find us on Facebook
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 11:47 AM   #21 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,513
Here is the list of significant issues:

Quote:
Significant Issue Statement 1: A reduction in motorized routes, prohibition on cross-country
travel, and seasonal closure during wet weather periods, will adversely affect forest visitors and
adjacent landowners. This would include the following elements:
1.1. Visitors with disabilities;
1.2. Routes adjoining other National Forests;
1.3. Displacement of motorized use to adjacent lands;
1.4. Limits on dispersed camping opportunities;
1.5. Limits on OHV recreation opportunities;
1.6. Limits on parking for recreational purposes; and
Significant Issue Statement 2: The proposed level of motorized use will adversely affect forest
resources, adjacent landowners, and non-motorized recreation opportunities. This would include
the following elements:
1.7. Seasonal closure effect on wheeled motor vehicle recreation opportunities.
2.1. Resource damage and route proliferation from dead-end routes;
2.2. Inability to maintain and enforce designated routes;
2.3. Impacts to non-motorized recreation opportunities;
2.4. Impacts on private-property;
2.5. Impacts from designating public motor vehicle use on ML-1 roads;
2.6. Impacts to forest resources;
2.7. Increased wildland fire risks; and
2.8. Impacts to grazing allotment capabilities and livestock.
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
Racer Jack tm
Almar Mfg 530-333-2496

Find us on Facebook
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 11:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,809
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
That's cool.....saved
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars??? Click Here
Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2007, 10:41 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3622
Location: Lakeside, CA
Posts: 1,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzila View Post
1.2. Routes adjoining other National Forests;
1.3. Displacement of motorized use to adjacent lands;
I would recommend that this phrase be modified as such:

1.2. Routes entering or leaving the Forest to adjacent state, federal, and private lands;
1.3. Displacement of motorized use to adjacent state, federal, and private lands;

The core issue is that restrictions put in place in one spot are going to have an impact in another spot.
__________________
John Stewart, KF6ZPL
Moderator, MUIRNet-News - [url]www.muirnet.net[/url]
kf6zpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2007, 05:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Harlee&Tahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Member # 89784
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posts: 48
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzila View Post
Here is the list of significant issues:
Significant Issue Statement 1: A reduction in motorized routes, prohibition on cross-country
travel, and seasonal closure during wet weather periods, will adversely affect forest visitors and
adjacent landowners. This would include the following elements:
1.1. Visitors with disabilities;
1.2. Routes adjoining other National Forests;
1.3. Displacement of motorized use to adjacent lands;
1.4. Limits on dispersed camping opportunities;
1.5. Limits on OHV recreation opportunities;
1.6. Limits on parking for recreational purposes; and
Significant Issue Statement 2: The proposed level of motorized use will adversely affect forest
resources, adjacent landowners, and non-motorized recreation opportunities. This would include
the following elements:
1.7. Seasonal closure effect on wheeled motor vehicle recreation opportunities.
2.1. Resource damage and route proliferation from dead-end routes;
2.2. Inability to maintain and enforce designated routes;
2.3. Impacts to non-motorized recreation opportunities;
2.4. Impacts on private-property;
2.5. Impacts from designating public motor vehicle use on ML-1 roads;
2.6. Impacts to forest resources;
2.7. Increased wildland fire risks; and
2.8. Impacts to grazing allotment capabilities and livestock.

Not to mention lost revinue for the bussiness that cater to visitors that come from near and far to enjoy and explore this vast opprotunities for route exploration
Harlee&Tahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 10:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
MyBlueCruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 37309
Location: crawling between what was Robb's Resort and Pollock Pines CA
Posts: 553
This is gonna seem stupid

"Get involved! NOW! Make sure everyone you know responds during the 45 day comment period. Get on the forest service e-mail list. Pass out flyers on the route designation process in a National Forest near you. Post on various message boards on the internet to spread the news. ELDO National will be holding meetings all over NorCal after the final Draft is picked on the 20th. GO TO ONE OF THOSE!!!"

OK I want to help but we are grease monkeys and are having a difficult time trying to understand exactly what we need to do. I'm handing out flyers, but everyone asks what should I do? So can you explain to a bunch of mountain people how to understand our stand?

Really We have a basic understanding of what the outcome may be but when we go to the meeting what do we do? We want our trails open but the why is more difficult. Please if you have an example of the arguments or comments made and how to put our concerns into words that will be heard it would help. I think too many people I'm running across are confused as to WHAT WE NEED TO DO, to change this. Thanks..

We feel we don't have enough information to make an intelligent statement.
"Sorry about the spelling, I've been up for hours looking for answers)
MyBlueCruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.