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Old 03-13-2009, 07:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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S.22 Omnibus Lands now H.R. 146

Well... a very sad day for America - Congressional power structure is showing itself as morally bankrupt.

Here's the deal.

H.R.146
Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.

Is being voted on Monday - and it is now the same S.22 bill. S.22 is attached to the end of H.R. 146. In other words - the Senate has H.R.146 already. By the House putting S.22 onto H.R. 146 the Senate takes over and S.22 is never voted on by the House! The Senate represents the states - the House represents the People (not that many people care about American governmental ideals). So we pass laws without the People having any representative voice? EDIT: Fight is on, slight change! - Senate vote and House vote again after - but looks like House will not be able to make amendments.

Talk about irony! What a sad and terrible thing to have happen - the American governmental ideals and process are being killed by using a bill directed to honor those very things and the lives dedicated to them - I see it but can't believe it... this goes far beyond a debate on Land Use.... I must be wrong, please someone straighten me out.

EDIT 3/17/2009: Cloture passed, vote on H.R. 146 in Senate scheduled soon. See United Four Wheel Drive Associations Alert http://www.ufwda.org/news_view.php?id=146 and Blue Ribbon Coalition Alert http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/?alert=980 Call your Representatives - zip code lookup at http://congress.org/stickers/?dir=co...fficials&lvl=C
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting - I don't recognize the country I grew up in anymore
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I should have posted what I read before. Frankly, I was so upset I had to delete my post 3 times because I couldn't be coherent.

http://rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/hotline0.html
(I'm not a Republican or Democrat - just a lurker on gov sites and saw it there first)

Senate Schedule
Monday, March 16, 2009
Pending:
The Senate will next convene at 2:00 p.m. Monday, March 16, after standing in adjournment at 6:58 p.m. Thursday, March 12.
At 2:00 p.m., the Senate will be in Morning Business until 3:00 p.m., with Senators permitted to speak up to 10 minutes each.
At 3:00 p.m., the Senate will resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the Battlefields bill (vehicle for the Public Lands bill).
At 5:30 p.m., the Senate will VOTE on the motion to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to H.R. 146. NOTE: If cloture is invoked, the post-cloture time will be counted as if cloture had been invoked at 10:00 a.m. Monday.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glos...rm/cloture.htm
cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

The news is hitting all the enviro sites now. Guess its going to happen. I just can't believe it.... words fail.... a lot of future between now and Monday - there is always hope....
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Other misc. links I found before your latest post in my effort to find out more.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h146/show

http://www.southbayriders.com/forums...ad.php?t=74386

http://arkansasgopwing.blogspot.com/...h-13-2009.html
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here is who is doing the deed. Harry Reid of course joined in writing by some of the nation's "finest". The Internet has become a wonderous thing in disclosing just how your government does business (while it lasts).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...6&position=all
REVOLUTIONARY WAR AND WAR OF 1812 BATTLEFIELD PROTECTION ACT—MOTION TO PROCEED
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I move to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is debatable.
CLOTURE MOTION
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I send a cloture motion to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The cloture motion having been filed pursuant motion.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
CLOTURE MOTION
We, the undersigned Senators, in accordance with the provisions of rule XXII of the Standing Rules of the Senate, hereby move to bring to a close debate on the motion to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act.
Bill Nelson - Florida; Richard Durbin - Illnois; Roland W. Burris -Illnois; Benjamin L. Cardin - Maryland; John F. Kerry - Massachusetts; Carl Levin - Michigan; Amy Klobuchar - Minnesota; Harry Reid - Nevada; Jeanne Shaheen - New Hampshire; Robert Menendez - New Jersey; Frank R. Lautenberg - New Jersey; Jeff Bingaman - New Mexico; Kay R. Hagan - North Carolina; Byron L. Dorgan - North Dakota; Jack Reed - Rhode Island; Jim Webb - Virgina; Patty Murray - Washington
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the mandatory quorum be waived.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the vote on the motion to invoke cloture occur at 5:30 Monday, March 16; further, that if cloture is invoked, then the postcloture time count as if cloture had been invoked at 10 a.m. on Monday, March 16; and that during any recess or adjournment period, postcloture time continue to run.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
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Last edited by chasinternet; 03-13-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: senator states added
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well... I am glad to see some sanity might come back. There is talk now on democratic party sites that the bill is going to be voted on in the Senate (filibuster/long debate prevented) and will be sent right back to the House for simple majority vote. It will not have any amendment except the one already given for the gun interests.

This is different talk than the thermonuclear course that it was on. On the bright side we don't suspend the constitution (not that it hasn't been done in the past but never over something as mundane as a lands bill or just to make a power statement). So it looks to me that the other senior members reeled Harry "wildman" Reid in.

But now its a huge lands use fight again - first in the Senate on Monday and then the House later in the week where a simple majority vote passes it.

It still will be presented as H.R. 146 with S.22 attached so what was said above applies - except the House re-vote is not being skipped.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've checked a couple of web sights and haven't found one with S. 22 attached to H.R. 146. Has it been attached or is this a rumor?

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Old 03-14-2009, 02:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster2 View Post
I've checked a couple of web sights and haven't found one with S. 22 attached to H.R. 146. Has it been attached or is this a rumor?

Ride on
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Yup - it is attached - what I posted above was the slime maneuver to prevent debate using stealth action. Don't know if any opposition in the Senate even knew the S.22 Omnibus Lands was attached to H.R. 146 until after (most senators were not present). What I was very upset over was reports said Reid indicated after exiting the Senate chamber that the bill would not go back to the House for a re-vote because he was planning a rare suspension of rules procedure (basically a dictatorship move that was "over the top"). It appears now that is not going to happen (apparently they have not gone completely insane and made Reid back off) so we have a land use fight instead of a complete constitutional meltdown.

Monday, after the Senate passes H.R. 146, it goes back to the House to be re-voted on a simple majority vote. Still outrageous that this bill will not be debated, except some controlled commentary for Monday, so is being slimed through the Senate once again, and has become a huge power statement by the Democratic leadership. The House leadership will maneuver to prevent debate no doubt and the two bills back together go for a simple majority vote.

You can read it in the congressional record:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...6&position=all
"that following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the legislative vehicle for the omnibus lands bill.The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered."

This is yet another after hours and weekend slime move by Reid so I imagine the large off-road organizations don't have people sitting in the office to do action alert mailings - but I think they will soon as the news spreads.
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/al...ertid=12914591

Action Alert

Omnibus Public Lands Bill to be Voted on Monday, March 16!
Call your Senators NOW!


The American Motorcyclist Association urges everyone to contact their Senators to vote "No" on H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program. This bill was formerly known as S. 22, the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009, which would prohibit all motorized vehicle access including motorcycles and ATVs on over 2 million acres of public lands. As you may know, S. 22 was defeated just days ago on March 11 in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Now, following defeat of the bill, the U.S. Senate leadership is expected to employ a little used parliamentary procedure that allows them to overcome the outcome of the House vote on S. 22.

The U.S. House of Representatives preserved your access to vital public lands when S. 22 fell two votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass on March 11th. The successful defeat of the bill was only accomplished after thousands of concerned individuals, like you, contacted their Representatives to tell them to oppose the legislation. However, the Senate Leadership wants to try and un-do that success by bringing the bill back as a 1,300 page amendment to an unrelated bill for a vote as early as Monday.

With such a short time frame for action, the best way to tell your Senators to vote "No" on H.R. 146 is to call. Click here to get the phone number for your Senators. Enter your zip code in the "Find Your Officials" box and click on the name of your Senators.

If you would prefer to contact your Senators with e-mail, you may contact your Senators by clicking here. We have pre-written a letter for your use.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp

Immediate action is critical to help keep 2.1 million acres of public land open to motorized recreation. Please call your Senators and tell everyone you can to do the same.

Next week, every Senator must know to vote "No" on H.R. 146!
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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My letter to Representative Nunes

Dear Representative Nunes

I am Todd Ockert, from Tulare Ca. I ask that you vote no on H.R. 146 for the following reasons.
This bill in of itself is a bill that I could support, but in its current form with the amendment of S.22 attached, this is a travesity to our form of government. The Senate attached S.22 to try and create more wilderness across this country. I do believe that we need to protect some parts of this great country, but the S.22 amendment is trying to create wilderness from areas that do not conform to the original designation of wilderness by the wilderness act of 1963 for lands that are untouched by man. Many of the areas in S.22 that many in the Senate and House want to make into wilderness already have trails and routes that those that recreate on our public lands use.
The economic impact of S.22 may not effect the central valley much, but other areas around this county will have a huge setback by S.22 to the small local communities around some of these areas. Can we afford to do that to many of these small communities that depend on these dollars from those that recreate in these areas. I would say no...Not when we are already spending TRILLIONS to spur the economy.

I beg you to vote no on H.R. 146 for the good on those that recreate on public lands.

Thank you

Todd Ockert
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinternet View Post
Yup - it is attached -

You can read it in the congressional record:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...6&position=all
"that following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the legislative vehicle for the omnibus lands bill.The PRESIDING OFFICER.
PLEASE direct me to any website showing S. 22 as being attached to H.R. 146.
The only connection I see is the wording "Omnibus Lands Bill". I believe that wording is due to the many site locations for the battlefield land acquisitions.

Thanks

Ride on
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You and I both wish it wasn't true but it is. Beyond belief is it not?

If you are after a copy of the actual legislation - can't help you because we live in a time where the largest financial spending act in the history of human civilization was done without that in advance even for the Senators much less something as mundane as a lands use bill. These are dark times when the outrageous becomes mainstream.

The GPO (government printing office) can not keep up when its done after hours with a weekend in between. Even news organizations mostly recycle the weeks news on weekends unless it is a huge story. This is why Reid picks these time periods.

The tactics being used in Washington since January are outrageous and designed to stifle opposition.

Here is an news article from the S.22 Omnibus Lands bill sponsor Jeff Bingaman (New Mexico and Senate Energy Committee Chairman) spokeswoman Jude McCartin in local news:
http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_11911049
Bingaman: Bill that could create monument in Robledos likely still has life
By Diana M. Alba/Sun-News reporter
Posted: 03/14/2009 12:00:00 AM MDT
Read the S. 22 bill that failed to pass the House on Wednesday
LAS CRUCES — U.S. Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., plans to take a different route in attempting to pass legislation that would create a new national monument west of Las Cruces after an omnibus public lands bill he sponsored was defeated this week in the U.S. House. Jude McCartin, the senator's spokeswoman, said she believes enough support exists for it to be approved.
"We never considered this bill dead," she said...
...McCartin said Bingaman hopes to have the bill added as an amendment to a piece of House legislation that's soon to be considered by the Senate....

http://www.capitolhillreports.com/031509.htm
"The Senate on Monday will vote on Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) motion to proceed to H.R.146, the new vehicle for the omnibus lands bill that contains various authorizing provisions regarding national wilderness and water conservation along with research and monitoring initiatives. The vote is scheduled for 5:30 PM and will require 60 votes to move to debate on the measure. The chamber easily passed the lands legislation (S. 22) in January, but the House fell two votes shy of clearing the bill last week on a "suspension" vote, which required a two-thirds majority."

http://www.nationalcenter.org/2009/0...ies-again.html
Outrage of the Day: Harry Reid Tries Again
Today's Outrage of the Day goes to Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid for his reported intention to try again to get the monster Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009 (S. 22) into law without proper deliberation.
Following the bill's defeat last Wednesday (under suspension of rules) in the House, Reid reportedly plans to try again by attaching the huge bill as an amendment to a bill, H.R. 146, "The Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act," that has already received House approval, and is to be voted on early this week in the Senate.
As National Center for Public Policy Research Senior Fellow R.J. Smith pointed out in this extensive commentary last week, it's likely that no one has read the bill-cum-amendment, as it's 1,294 pages long and nine inches thick. There have been no hearings, mark-ups or floor debate about most of it.
What's the hurry, Harry?
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If anyone wishes to see the video, it is now on C-span and I have also embedded it here. Reid and company even make a joke of it on second video - note the laughter - a real inside joke.
(you have to turn it up loud to hear comments and other laughter - haven't bothered checking who the Presiding Officer was - perhaps a junior senator and that is why they are being coached what to say - it is often a scripted play)

First, here is the original intention Reid indicated that morning at the start of the Senate day. This is what is now happening. I assume he went temporarily "wild" late in the day because he was threatening to do something even more extreme but backed down. So it is now a floor fight Monday to send the bill to committee for the process that should of happened in the first place.

<object width='292' height='272'><param name='movie' value='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284580-1&autoplay=0'></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true'></param><embed src='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284580-1&clipStart=255&clipStop=316&autoplay=0' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' allowfullscreen='true' width='292' height='272'></embed></object>

Mr. Reid I expect to file cloture on a matter to move the lands bill forward forward again, for the information of all Senators. A widely popular bill we sent to the House was put on the consent calendar yesterday and failed by two votes. So we will have to start that process over here again. One of the things they are talking about doing is adding another Idaho wilderness provision to that bill and to send it back over here. But I would hope perhaps we can work something out with people who want us to have to go through all the procedural processes. I hope we do not have to do that. If we do, that is what we will do. We will have a vote Monday morning on the cloture unless we can get something worked out with those who are opposing this. Then, next week, that being the case,we will spend some time on the lands bill.

<object width='292' height='272'><param name='movie' value='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284580-1&autoplay=0'></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true'></param><embed src='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284580-1&clipStart=28570&autoplay=0' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' allowfullscreen='true' width='292' height='272'></embed></object>

Mr. REID. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER Mr. Majority Leader
Mr. REID. I ask unanimous consent the call to quorum be terminated.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered
Mr. REID. I now move to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is debatable.
Mr. REID. I then send a cloture petition to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the motion.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
Cloture Motion
We, the undersigned Senators, in accordance with provisions of rule XXII of the Standing Rules of the Senate, hereby move to bring to a close the debate on the motion to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act. Signed by 17 senators as follows.
Reid of Nevada, Murray, Cardin, Hagan, Dorgan, Durbin,(interrupted)
Mr REID. (unintelligible) I'm going to ask you now something, reading need to be waived
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr Reid: Title of the Bill threw me off a little there (laughter)
Mr. REID. I ask that the mandatory quorum be waived.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. REID. I ask consent that the vote on the motion to invoke cloture occur at 5:30 Monday, March 16; and that if cloture is invoked, the post-cloture time count as if cloture had been invoked at 10 a.m. on Monday, March 16; and post cloture time continue to run during any recess, adjournment, or morning business period.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. REID. I ask unanimous consent that when the Senate completes its business today, Senate adjourn until 2 p.m. Monday, March 16; that following the prayer and the pledge, the proceedings be approved to date, the morning hour be deemed expired, the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day; the Senate proceed to period of morning business until 3 p.m.,the Senators permitted to speak for up to 10 minutes each. Following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of motion to proceed to H.R. 146 the legislative vehicle for the Omnibus Lands Bill.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. REID. The next roll-call vote will occur Monday at 5:30 p.m. This vote will be on the motion to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to H.R. 146.
Mr. REID. Mr. President, if there is no further business to come before the Senate, I ask that we that we stand adjourned under the previous order.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate stands adjourned until Monday, March 16, 2009, at 2 p.m.

I use feeds and html pages that get updated - I have never used C-Span web site but they will show the Senate live on Monday. Those with a Flash Player can watch it:
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...ts_id=284644-1

I can't do updates tomorrow, got other fish to fry (I'll be scarce for awhile, you all get a reprieve).

With some luck, support for this maneuver will fail before tomorrow afternoon and S.22 Omnibus Lands goes to back to the committee process it should of had already. Would not be the first time Reid backs off - and its always easy to save face by spinning the past to suit the present.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I know it want do any good but I sent this to my state rep. and both senaters.

A bill S.22 failed to pass the senate last week. So Someone inturn hide it inside a bill that the house is suppose to vote on Monday afternoon. H.R 146. I think these need to be keep separate. How is it they can do this little things to keep the public in the dark. It seems that all the Goverment does is try and confuse the public. That way they can do what ever they want, or what ever the person that gives the most to there campaign wants.

As a avid Offroader, its bills like these that affect me most. We are in a major fight to keep OHV land open to use. We are trying to push to get some help from the States in this. But for the most part it seems we are in a uphill fight. We as OHVer don’t have the money to back such matters as we need to. One of the biggest things that would help is to have a voice in D.C. That’s were people like you come in. All we ask for is you give us an effort and a voice. I use offroading to visit and view some of the most beautiful thing nature has to offer. I can cover more land in a days time then most people can cover by foot in a week. This is a way for my kids and I to explore the great things that God created as a family. There is no way that my 6yr old or even my 10yr old could keep up with me and at the same time be able to enjoy all the things nature has to offer
Sincerely
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Or it will be soon if you let this happen.

2 million acers will be gone if you don't call right now.

Omnibus Public Land Bill is going to be forced through on MONDAY, Call now and say NO NO, don't do it.


Ensign, John - (R - NV)
(202) 224-6244

Reid, Harry - (D - NV)
(202) 224-3542

Have your friends call too!

Surprise, Surprise!!! Harry reids voicemail is FULL. Yep, all the treehugger MF's already filled it up so YOU can't call. Ensign's mailbox is available but we already know what he will vote on this. It's the MF'n lib that needs the swift kick in the ***. So, email his sorry *** here:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send an email now and call tomorrow. This is no BS guys. This will happen and plated or not our public land access will go the way of the hulahoop. Get on it and send that email to the ******ba
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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As a constituent and concerned motorized outdoor recreationist, I am writing to ask that you ask that S. 22, which is being considered as H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program, be stripped from this bill. Honoring our forefathers is a righteous cause. I am embarrassed to hear that this defeated bill is being tacked on to an otherwise noble cause.

In addition to creating over 2 million acres of new Wilderness, closing all trails to responsible motorized access, the bill will make permanent the National Landscape Conservation System (NLCS). The motorized recreation community is concerned the NLCS would create an additional level of bureaucracy for the National System of Public Lands and would remove much of the authority of the existing agency in managing those lands.

Besides the issue of voting for a bill that has already been defeated, I find a heinous moral wrongdoing in not considering individual bills on their own merit. Shame on you for considering this.

We cannot afford to close any more lands to responsible motorized recreation or slow the land management process with more bureaucratic red-tape; therefore I ask that you vote ‘No’ on H.R. 146 unless it is stripped of any S. 22 content. Thank you for your time and consideration of this important issue.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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called both senators and my Rep.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It's being discussed right now on tv, C-SPAN2, Directv 351.
New Mexico senator advocating addition of S22.

Ride on
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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BRC update


BRC Urgent Action Alert
Immediate Action Requested

Omnibus Package Revived In Senate - Vote Scheduled Today

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

In our last update on the massive omnibus public lands bill, we cautioned our members that the package is far from dead. We wrote: "Worse, possible scenarios are being considered that will prohibit full review as well as opportunity to offer amendments."

True to form, Congress is pushing ahead with yet another vehicle for the omnibus package. This time it's H.R. 146 - "The Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program." This otherwise worthy bill will be amended to include the contents of the omnibus package. The Senate is expected to take the bill up at 2 p.m. eastern with the first cloture vote due as early as 5:30 p.m.

At this point it looks as if the Senate leadership will either strike a deal to limit amendments in order for the bill to move quickly, or they will just push it through without allowing any opportunity for amendments. Either way, the bill is likely to see its first cloture vote TODAY!

If the Senate passes the measure it is expected that House leadership will attempt to jam it through via one or more "closed rule" options. D.C. insiders expect House leadership to call the legislation up as a "preferential bill," which would prohibit committee review and limit amendments.

BRC is asking all of our members and supporters to call their Senators NOW. Finding their phone number is easy. Click here and enter your Zip code. Simply tell your Senator that you oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act and you want them to vote NO on H.R. 146.

Be brief. Be polite. Do it NOW.

As always, if you have any questions or need assistance call or email.

Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Policy Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The live feed is on C-Span 2 - cloture vote is happening now - we'll know in a few minutes.
http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2_wm.aspx

Sometimes have to have a strong stomach to watch these things and notice small phrases used.
Here is Reid at the beginning of the day:
<object width='292' height='272'><param name='movie' value='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284644-1&clipStart=150.00&clipStop=255.00&autoplay=0'></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true'></param><embed src='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284644-1&clipStart=128.00&clipStop=540.00&autoplay=0' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' allowfullscreen='true' width='292' height='272'></embed></object>
After the cloture vote, Reid hopes the vote on the actual bill will be tomorrow.

The "Dr. Coburn" Reid mentions is Tom Coburn senator from Oklahoma. Apparently Coburn has derailed this temporarily as he promised he would! Coburn deserves my support in his fight against having this huge bill shoved through. Colburn has been an outspoken critic of S.22. He apparently now wants it debated and subject to admendments.
Contact info:
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/inde...torCoburn.Home


Here is Bingaman doing the deed, the poop gets deep on the floor of the Senate.
<object width='292' height='272'><param name='movie' value='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284644-1&clipStart=4375.00&clipStop=4850.00&autoplay=0' ></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true'></param><embed src='http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/cspanPlayer.swf?pid=284644-1&clipStart=4375.00&clipStop=4850.00&autoplay=0' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' allowfullscreen='true' width='292' height='272'></embed></object>
Bingaman mentions giving access to Michael Gauthier who is on his subcomittee staff. For the curious:
Michael Gauthier served at Mount Rainier National Park in the climbing and search and rescue program. He is brand new to Washington and joined Subcommittee on National Parks of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee staff as part of the Benvinetto program to give selected NPS personel legislative experience for 2 years. Most of its graduates currently serve as park superintendents or program chiefs or in other leadership positions.
http://home.nps.gov/applications/dig...leNews&id=2233
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Cloture passes. So H.R. 146 now will be the text of S.22 plus whatever the power structure did to it.
I doubt we will see the actual text of the bill until after the Senate vote tomorrow (little doubt it passes since it will be a simple majority vote). The NRA will apparently be appeased by the inclusion of language that Bingaman read on C-Span today.

H.R. 146 then goes back to House. It is going to take a huge effort to try to stop it in the House without the NRA.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chasinternet View Post
Cloture passes. So H.R. 146 now will be the text of S.22 plus whatever the power structure did to it.
I must have missed where H.R. 146 was ammended to include text of S.22.

Ride on
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Question: On the Cloture Motion (Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to Consider H.R. 146 )
Vote Number: 99 Vote Date: March 16, 2009, 05:31 PM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Agreed to
Measure Number: H.R. 146 (Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act )
Measure Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.
Vote Counts: YEAs 73
NAYs 21
Not Voting 5
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Begich (D-AK), Yea
Bennet (D-CO), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Burris (D-IL), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Not Voting
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagan (D-NC), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Johanns (R-NE), Not Voting
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kaufman (D-DE), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Not Voting
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Merkley (D-OR), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Risch (R-ID), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Udall (D-CO), Yea
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Not Voting
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (D-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

Information from www.thomas.gov on H.R. 146:
H.R.146
Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Holt, Rush D. [NJ-12] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors (10)
Latest Major Action: 3/12/2009 Senate floor actions. Status: Cloture motion on the motion to proceed to the bill presented in Senate.
Note: On 3/16/2009, the Senate will consider the motion to proceed to H.R.146 as the vehicle for the Omnibus Lands bill. (Source: Senate.gov)
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I must have missed where H.R. 146 was ammended to include text of S.22.

Ride on
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Just another day of "hiding the ball" in the Senate. This is very confusing stuff. I am attempting to present highlights and information where those who wish to fish for themselves can go. I'm not writing press releases or speaking for anyone but myself -I'm just a guy watching the magicians do their routines.

I'm not sure of the context off your question. Are you doubting the morph of H.R. 146 into S.22? Do you want to be able to read the Bill so you know exactly what is changed (unfortunately probably not going to happen until after House action)?

When Jeff Bingaman presented in the video above he spelled out what is intended and the text substitution (which I assume eliminates the battlefield bill even though the title is kept).

I never could find an online source for the S.22 maps attached to the bill from the January version for areas I care about. The last text of the changed bill I saw is 3/11/09 from the house:
http://fdsys.gpo.gov/fdsys/delivery/...t1-PgH3151.pdf

The C-Span embedded link aabove is broken for some reason - C-Span might be doing an update and it will come back online soon. If not, when I get a chance later, I will edit the above post and if necessary correct the C-Span link.

Here are separate window links:
Reid
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...lipStop=245.00
Bingaman
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...ipStop=4790.00
Coburn
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...pStop=10270.00

Tom Coburn also spoke and he does a decent job of describing some of the large problems with the bill and this procedure being used. I will also add the video of Coburn's speech.

The Congressional Record will have the approximate text of the speeches and procedures tomorrow. It is not exact because they use whatever the Close Caption TV people typed - not word for word what was actually said - which can cause confusion. In my first post I transcribed the video myself because the Congressional Record did not have any of the nuance.

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Originally Posted by shadetree6969 View Post
I know it want do any good but I sent this to my state rep. and both senaters.
Congrats! - both Tennessee Senators voted No when last time they voted yes!

I'm in Kalifornia - where we have to call DiFi and Ba-ba Boxer (who would have a green shirt enviro army if she could).
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