AZ. - 700,000 Acre "Sonoran Desert Protection Proposal"

[LYIN' KING]

700,000-acre Conservation Plan Would Preserve 'Legacy of Arizona'

May 26th, 2011

Environment and Energy Daily
April Reese
Thursday, May 26, 2011

About 700,000 acres of public land near Phoenix -- one of the West's fastest-growing cities -- would receive additional protection under a broadly supported proposal unveiled by environmental groups yesterday.

The initiative, presented at a press conference in Phoenix, calls for establishing three types of protected lands in the area. All are found within Bureau of Land Management lands in Maricopa County, home to more than 4 million people.

The proposal conserves natural and cultural resources and protects key wildlife corridors while allowing for renewable energy development and recreation, proponents said.

"This endeavor is about preserving the history, the heritage, and the legacy of Arizona," said Marshall Trimble, Arizona's state historian.

The proposal calls for establishing two new national conservation areas, two special management areas, and 17 wilderness units, some of which would be expansions of existing wilderness.

The Sonoran Desert Heritage Campaign seeks to significantly expand protections for public land surrounding the Phoenix metro area, including an addition to the Eagletail Mountains Wilderness (above). Photo courtesy of Bureau of Land Management.

The lands, which form a rough crescent in an area known as the West Valley, would protect the unique Sonoran Desert ecosystem and wildlife corridors used by bighorn sheep, mountain lions, mule deer and other species, supporters said. And by protecting open space, the initiative would also preserve flight training airspace and corridors between Luke Air Force Base and the Barry M. Goldwater Range to the south.

"It's very easy for us to support this project because it's supporting the mission of the base," said Ron Sites, executive director and president of Fighter Country Partnership, an organization that advocates on behalf of the military personnel based at Luke Air Force Base. The proposal protects the air space the base and other installations need to continue their missions, he added.

The proposal also has the blessing of city and county officials, developers, conservationists, military representatives, recreationists and the faith community, and the groups will gather further input from the public over the next few months before taking the proposal to Congress, said Mike Quigley, Arizona wildlands campaign coordinator for the Wilderness Society.

The diverse base of support reflects a unified desire to protect the scenery and recreational opportunities that draw so many people to the region, he said.

"It's a beautiful landscape," he said. "Arizona in the past decade or two has been rapidly growing in population and infrastructure, and I think people who live here have seen the development of open space, and I think that might be a motivator of people protecting this."

Maricopa County's population grew by about 30 percent between 2000 and 2010, according to census figures.

Larry K. Yount of LKY Development Company Inc., said the initiative is a selling point for the town of Belmont's 20,000-acre master planned community near the Belmont Mountains, which would be surrounded by the Sonoran Desert Heritage proposed wilderness area.

"We couldn't be more pleased with this proposal, as it gives added natural value to why prospective buyers want to live in western Maricopa County," he said.

According to recent polls, between 60 and 80 percent of residents support protecting open space in the area, Quigley said.

The initiative would not conflict with proposed solar projects in western Maricopa County because those sites are outside its boundaries, he added.

Dennis Godfrey, a spokesman for BLM's Arizona state office in Phoenix, said the agency is aware of the initiative but cannot take an official position on it until it goes before Congress.

"This seems to be kind of a broad-based grass-roots thing, and we certainly support that," he said. "But in terms of the specific proposal, my understanding is there's not a bill yet, so we're not in a position to comment."

The proposal has the support of Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.). But Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), whose district also includes some of the lands, has yet to endorse it, although he has said he is open to the plan. "We're optimistic we'll gain their full support for legislation," Quigley said.

The groups hope to see a bill introduced in Congress by next year.

http://www.sonoranheritage.org/news/...526%2523039%3B

[LYIN' KING]

[Mad Machinist]

Rep. Franks will not be supporting this at this time. We got to him.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Mad Machinist

Rep. Franks will not be supporting this at this time. We got to him.

He was on the fence getting ready to jump to their side, hopefully he won't climb back up.

[Bebe]

That's the most unbelievable, slimy, underhanded approach from a developer I have ever seen.

It's a seriously stupid idea. Shouldn't they try to reduce the foreclosure inventory in Phoenix and the surrounding area before they develop more?

Great job getting to Franks

These Agenda 21/Wild Lands supporters are getting crafty!

[aphantomduck]

This could be the "other shoe" that will drop as a part of this proposal.

For Immediate Release, June 28, 2011

Contact: Ileene Anderson (323) 490-0223 ianderson@biologicaldiversity.org

New Study Finds Desert Tortoises Are Two Different Species, Increasing Need for Protection

LOS ANGELES— A scientific paper released today formally splits the desert tortoise into two species, a taxonomic development that could have real on-the-ground impacts on imperiled desert tortoises. Until now, desert tortoises have been considered a single species, Gopherus agassizii. Some of these tortoises (north and west of the Colorado River) have received federal protection, while others (east and south of the river) have not. But under the new taxonomy, this previously single tortoise species is scientifically redefined as two species, separated by the Colorado River. This means both animals are rarer than previously thought and deserving of increased federal protection.

Gopherus agassizii, or the Mojave desert tortoise, is found in California, Nevada and portions of Arizona and Utah north and west of the Colorado River. Tortoises in the Sonoran desert east and south of the river, and extending into Mexico, are no longer considered Gopherus agassizii; instead they’re now considered members of a newly described species, Gopherus morafkai, or the Sonoran desert tortoise.

“This study has important conservation implications for tortoises on both sides of the Colorado River,” said Ileene Anderson, biologist with the Center for Biological Diversity. “Because tortoises in California and Arizona are now confirmed to be separate species, protecting them on only one side of the river is clearly not enough.”

Under the federal Endangered Species Act, desert tortoises north and west of the Colorado River are currently listed as a threatened species, while those east and south of the river have no current protection but are considered a “candidate” for listing. While the currently listed population of desert tortoises overlaps precisely with the newly described range of Gopherus agassizii, that area amounts to only 30 percent of the range previously ascribed to the species. This means Gopherus agassizii is of elevated conservation concern.

The Mojave population of desert tortoise was listed as a threatened species by the federal government in 1990, and critical habitat was designated in 1994. However, population numbers still continue to decline due to a variety of threats including development of habitat, crushing by vehicles, habitat degradation, predation and disease. The desert tortoise recovery plan was completed in 1994 and points to several important actions that should be taken to benefit the species. Unfortunately, few of these actions have been implemented.

“We now know that the Mojave tortoise is unique and occupies a much smaller range than previously thought,” said Anderson. “Given the ongoing loss of habitat and other threats it faces, it is clearly time to implement its recovery plan.”

The newly recognized Sonoran species, Gopherus morafkai, was named after the late Dr. David Morafka, a tireless advocate for conservation of desert habitats in the Southwest, who spent much of his career working with the desert tortoise and other desert species. It is also now occupying less habitat than previously and deserves new scrutiny for possible Endangered Species Act protection.

[fuggy]

Originally Posted by Bebe

That's the most unbelievable, slimy, underhanded approach from a developer I have ever seen.

It's a seriously stupid idea. Shouldn't they try to reduce the foreclosure inventory in Phoenix and the surrounding area before they develop more?

Great job getting to Franks

These Agenda 21/Wild Lands supporters are getting crafty!

NOT true. I don't think you get it. These proposed lands will not see as much development and will have to go through a more elaborate approval process. According to the colored map above, there is a ton of private land in these areas, great ground water, and a ton of land holdings by developers/investors. This might benefit the surrounding developers, but not necessarily the people with land holdings in the proposed area.

[fuggy]

Originally Posted by LYIN' KING

I'd like to see them ditch 1, 2, and 3. Lots of OHV/4x4 use in this area! It would be cool to see the BLM 'preserve' it for us, but that usually means they take away any and all rights to use the roads/trails. In the end, we as OHV users normally lose.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Bebe

That's the most unbelievable, slimy, underhanded approach from a developer I have ever seen.

It's a seriously stupid idea. Shouldn't they try to reduce the foreclosure inventory in Phoenix and the surrounding area before they develop more?

Great job getting to Franks

These Agenda 21/Wild Lands supporters are getting crafty!

Real Estate services are paid monthly maintenance fees for each foreclosed property they handle, as well as commissions and incentives. If sold, the total compensation can range from 8 percent of the sales price on many residential properties to 30 percent for properties worth $25,000 or less.

Here are the crooks in the foreclosure inventory part and well, um . . . http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ps...w=1093&bih=415

So aside from FDIC and foreclosure inventory . . .



What we have here is another very complex “shell game” like Johnson Valley, a game with many similarities and a few different twists. A game where a minority get screwed with the help of Public Servants while a select few filthy rich bastards get even richer.

Similarities to JV: A Huge Public Land Grab in the works for well over a decade involving a Military Base, MILCON, vast expanses of desert, designated “Wilderness Areas”, National Monuments, open BLM Land, designated OHV use areas, The Wilderness Society, Real Estate developers, property for sale, renewable energy projects, precious metal/rare earth elements and Public Servants.

I won’t delve into the Johnson Valley deal and try to explain it since that would take this off topic. BTW . . . the major players in all of this are also responsible for the “Tellico” closure in many similarly twisted ways. More than an handfull are members of The Wilderness Society, a major contributor to Trout Unlimited who had a big hand in Tellico. http://www.muckety.com/Query?graph=M...rchResult=1326




I’ll attempt to make this Arizona thing as clear as possible, it is so complex and convoluted as to be unimaginable, and no . . . I won’t be able to provide a copy of the cashed check as final proof.

NOTE: If one doesn't have the time or desire to follow all the links and make some educated leaps of faith don't bother to go any further!!!




CB Richard Ellis was the Senior Managing Director of Fighter County from ’99-’07 . . . http://fightercountry.org/board/dire...e-bolton/71533

Here is a loose connection of Richard C. Blum (AKA CB Richard Ellis, AKA CBRE, AKA CBR.N, AKA Blum Capitol, AKA Newbridge Capitol, AKA Catellus Development Corporation, AKA Grubb and Ellis, AKA BRE Commercial, AKA Glenborough Realty Trust . . . and I could go on and on and on) to LKY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY who as you may recall owns that 20k acre chunk in the middle of the proposed “Wilderness” area where all the luxury homes will be built. They’re keeping it “all in the family” here apparently . . . http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/+/Ca...,-Arizona-Area

I just have to assume for the time being that Danny Calihan, Senior Vice President at CB Richard Ellis and Robyn Calihan Coordinator at LKY Development are related.

LKY Development Company is also a Defense Contractor! Hmm . . . http://defensedatabase.com/companyde...spx?cage=4SE69

Check out pages 31-36 of this Blum company . . . http://www.genewmexico.com/research/...recastbook.pdf . . . especially page 35 about “the State Land Department’s inventory”.

Here’s a fairly current list of DOT related permits for projects in Arizona dating back as far as the 70s, if you have the patience you’ll find a permit application for something that could be a smoking gun . . . http://www.azdot.gov/Highways/utilit.../phxi10i17.pdf

Belmont 20k purchase advisor . . . Gregory J. Vogel,Greg Vogel is the Chief Executive Officer of the Land Advisors Organization. Since 1987, Greg has been a trusted advisor and broker specializing in large land parcels for master planned communities, homebuilders and investment. Greg has applied his knowledge of land values, development costs, trends, governing bodies and constraints to some of Metropolitan Phoenix's largest master-planned community projects including Asante at 3,600 acres; Verrado at 8,800 acres; Estrella Mountain Ranch at 20,000 acres; and Belmont at 20,000 acres. http://www.spoke.com/info/p7OK0Vw/GregoryVogel

He’s even a big member of the Urban Land Institute (like Blum and many of the other suspects) “Chair of the Arizona District, leadership of the Community Development Council Blue Flight and ULI Governor”!!!

Here’s the rest of the connection back to Blum/CBRE already established with Larry K. Yount (head of LKY Development Company and principle in “Belmont Master Planned Community”), CB Richard Ellis and now Greg Vogel . . .

May 7, 1999
VALLEY INVESTORS TEAM UP TO BUY 19,800 ACRES ON WEST SIDE KNOWN AS BELMONT

Maricopa County -- An investment group formed by Larry Yount and Bill Ring of LKY Development in Phoenix, the Cardon family in Mesa (Elijah Cardon, Wilford Cardon, Craig Cardon, principals) and Valley businessman Duke Cowley paid $11.7 million to buy a 19,800-acre tract in the west Valley known as Belmont. The property, in Maricopa County, is located along both sides of 339th Avenue and north of Interstate 10. The CAP Canal forms the northern boundary of the parcel, which is bisected by the Wickenburg Highway. The seller was a receivership controlled by European interests. Greg Vogel of Arizona Land Advisors in Scottsdale brokered the sale. While the recorded sales price for the property was $11.7 million, including some fees and other costs, the buyer actually paid closer to $13 million. Ring says the investment group intends to update the land plan for the property, secure the development rights and resolve various zoning and infrastructure issues. He adds that the investors are .in it for the long haul, and paid cash for the land. "We are really excited to control that much acreage at this price," says Ring. Eventually, the land is expected to be developed as a master-planned community with roughly 48,000 homes. http://www.landonit.com/fullnews.html

A far amount of the land in the proposed “Sonoran Desert Protection Proposal” area belongs to the BLM, BOR, NFS, NPS, State or is already a “National Monument” or “Wilderness” area. Private land makes up the rest.

Nearly 14 years ago . . . “The original concept of the Sonoran Desert Protection Plan has been expanded to include both a biological assessment and an economic impact assessment. In general, the Coalition has worked with the County in creating a proposal which now has (1) a larger planning area; (2) more partners; (3) expanded public process; (4) a more comprehensive approach; and (5) greater scientific oversight and peer review.”
http://www.pima.gov/CMO/SDCP/Archives/PT3.html

There aren’t any Solar or Wind projects in the area from what I can see here except possibly the Sonoran Solar Project (NextEra Energy Resources, LLC) . . .
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...r_Wind_Map.pdf

NextEra was formerly known as FPL Group Capital, Inc. and changed its name to NextEra Energy Capital Holdings, Inc. in December 2010. NextEra Energy Capital Holdings, Inc. is based in Juno Beach, Florida. NextEra Energy Capital Holdings, Inc. is a subsidiary of NextEra Energy, Inc.
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...vcapId=3152359

Ok, so guess who owned FPL Group Capital, Inc?

Malek, Frederic
Mr. Frederic V. Malek is Independent Director of CB Richard Ellis Group Inc. He has served as Chairman of Thayer Capital Partners, a merchant banking firm he founded, since 1993 and Chairman of Thayer Lodging Group, a sponsor of private hotel real estate investment trusts, or REITs, which he also founded in 1993. Mr. Malek is on the board of directors of Dupont Fabros Technology, Inc. He previously served on the boards of directors of Automatic Data Processing Corp., the Federal National Mortgage Association, Northwest Airlines Corporation, and FPL Group, Inc. Mr. Malek holds a B.S. from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School. He also brings to the Board operational experience as a former president of Marriott International, Inc., and is knowledgeable in corporate finance and experienced as an audit committee member.
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stock...s?symbol=CBG.N

Oops, spoke too soon . . . just found this “Sonoran Solar Energy”, Boulevard Associates LLC. Oh, it’s just another NextEra Energy Resources, LLC subsidiary.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/energy/active.html

What’s interesting is Blum got his weiner in a sling with Boulevard Associates LLC for “contamination of soil and ground water” in this case . . .
http://www.arobertsonlaw.com/sites/d..._Complaint.pdf
Man, don’t drink the water around any of his property holdings!!!

Oops, just when you think it’s all over . . . “Renewable Power on Public Lands” http://www.azdatapages.com/datacente...ny_project=%25
I ain’t researching who owns all these freakin’ companies!!! But I can guess . . .

”The Sonoran Institute has been reaching out to a wide cross section of stakeholders, including land managers, developers, the military, local governments, user groups and other like-minded organizations, such as Valley Forward, that have an interest in both conservation land and renewable energy.”
http://aznow.biz/green/sonoran-insti...le-environment

http://www.sonoraninstitute.org/

Guess who . . . CB Richard Ellis. Colton Commercial. Communities Southwest ..... Susan Culp, Sonoran Institute. Mike Delmarter, Kimley-Horn and Associates, ...

Here’s another interesting “relationship” map . . . http://www.muckety.com/CB-Richard-El...ckety?big=true

Power of Five Mobilization Plan . . . http://www.treoaz.org/TREO/media/doc...5-08%20FNL.pdf

You’ll find some familiar critters here like . . .

• Urban Land Institute*/
Blueprint Business
Sites & Infrastructure
Workgroup* (Mike
Hammond, PICOR)

• Sonoran Institute*
(Denny Minano,
Consultant)

• Coalition for Sonoran
Desert Protection*
(Loretta Peto, Peto &
Associates)

Believe it or not!!!

and there is MUCH more . . .

[Mad Machinist]

So if CBD is so worried about the damn tortioses in the desert, then why aren't they pushing for border security? Don't they know that alot of these tortioses are being eaten by the current tide of "undocumented democrats". Found about a dozen more shells near a old fire not long ago.

And when you have a BLM employee making the comment that desert totioses don't crush when you run them over they pop like a balloon, it really makes one wonder if these tortioses are not purposely being killed to keep their numbers low.

IF and I do mean IF, they really want to preserve the heritage of AZ, then they need to actually preserve the REAL heritage of this state. The one of ranching, farming, mining, and offroading. THAT is why people move here. Not for some damn tortiose that is most likely at the end of its evolutionary cycle.

[Mad Machinist]

Forgot to add that evidence of torioses is all of a suddne being found in some of our OHV areas that have not had any population for a very long time. Funny thing is, is that there is no traceable migration patterns into this area.

So what we have here is a rather strange situation that looks like turtles are purposely being moved by certain individuals to get want they want. And I should remind these people that handling an endangered species is a federal offense. When we also consider that the tortioses have an 80% or better mortality rate when moved, I would venture a guess that this would involve jail time.

And on the other hand, we have the idea that if this is a natural migration to new areas, then these torioses are doing much better than was previously thought and should probably be delisted as an endangered species.

After all, if these turtles are thriving in places like JV and other OHV areas here in AZ, then they must be doing simply outstanding in the areas where OHV use is banned, so they are no longer endangered and need to be delisted.

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by Mad Machinist

Forgot to add that evidence of torioses is all of a suddne being found in some of our OHV areas that have not had any population for a very long time. Funny thing is, is that there is no traceable migration patterns into this area.

So what we have here is a rather strange situation that looks like turtles are purposely being moved by certain individuals to get want they want. And I should remind these people that handling an endangered species is a federal offense. When we also consider that the tortioses have an 80% or better mortality rate when moved, I would venture a guess that this would involve jail time.

And on the other hand, we have the idea that if this is a natural migration to new areas, then these torioses are doing much better than was previously thought and should probably be delisted as an endangered species.

After all, if these turtles are thriving in places like JV and other OHV areas here in AZ, then they must be doing simply outstanding in the areas where OHV use is banned, so they are no longer endangered and need to be delisted.

Re: JV
Per the “Greenies” http://www.mojavedesertblog.com/2011...limit-ohv.html it appears that more Desert Tortoises would be affected without the OHV area than with it.

They have been paid off well and will not complain about the projected loss.

Re: AZ
I have to assume that there is a similar affect on the population of shelled critters there too . . . that being little or none. Just more "spin in the shell game"!!!

[dumass]

ARIZONA DISTRICT 7 - VOTE GRIJALVA OUT!
03-21-2010, 06:02 PM
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...074&highlight=



You have to vote to solve the problem............

Blame McCain too, this is just an extension of the Ironwood Monument deal.

[JolietJames]

Dammit! We just put an offer in on a house in Tucson a couple weeks ago. Wheeling is in out top 5 reasons for moving to AZ.

[LYIN' KING]

Ironwood Forest National Monument

It’s made up of federal and private land holdings, including Arizona State School Trust lands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironwoo...ional_Monument


Hmm, looks like 5 years ago Prop 106 wanted to allow the acquisition of these “School Trust” lands to be streamlined and guess who supported it?

“Pete Bolton, CB Richard Ellis senior managing director, said the current system for disposing of state land discourages bids from commercial developers because it can take more than a decade to develop that land and few can afford to wait that long.”
http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...Z8.html?&wired

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...23/story4.html



Appears as though this will be on hold for a bit . . .
http://azstarnet.com/news/science/en...cad537e87.html


Well here’s a handy little who owns what deal . . . http://sco.az.gov/website/parcels/viewer.htm


A generic map showing “School Trust Lands”. Looks like a bunch of the Sonoran Desert Heritage Protection plan would lay over these “Trust” lands.
http://www.lincolninst.edu/subcenter...funding-az.pdf


“Nearly all of the most valuable urban Trust lands around the northern border of the Phoenix metropolitan area and north and west Tucson are Common Schools Trust lands. The large block of Trust lands on the south and southeast sides of the Tucson metropolitan area is divided amongst the various institutional Trusts. The University of Arizona Trust owns a large amount of timbered land acreage in the Flagstaff area and agricultural lands near Yuma. However, the majority of the acreage in the other individual institutional Trusts are rural grazing lands, although some agricultural potential exists.”
http://www.land.state.az.us/history.htm


Hmm, how interesting . . .

“Blum, who is the husband of U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein and a professional Wall Street speculator, sat on a panel called "The New University and Its Role in the Economy," alongside the presidents of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Arizona State University.”
http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html


Gee, the Arizona State Land Department and CB Richard Ellis are both members of an organization called “Valley Partnership”, how cozy.
https://www.valleypartnership.org/di...=A&orderby=asc


Gag me . . . ““Everyone is realizing the importance of collaboration and how all the different people that need to be involved are having a voice - and realizing that it’s not easy to just speak solely about their own personal interests.” - Mindy Korth, CB Richard Ellis”
http://www.movingazone.com/applicati..._FINAL.3-1.pdf


Damn, I’ve seen enough . . .
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...24775ad1dac27b

[kf6zpl]

And now for the rest of the story...

http://www.usbr.gov/WaterSMART/lcc.html

None of the development deals are worth anything without WATER.

For those that want to follow the saga of desert tortoise....

http://www.deserttortoise.gov/ and
http://www.fws.gov/nevada/desert_tortoise/

[LYIN' KING]

Originally Posted by kf6zpl

And now for the rest of the story...

http://www.usbr.gov/WaterSMART/lcc.html

None of the development deals are worth anything without WATER.

Interesting that the Department of the Interior has chosen the University of Arizona as home base for a regional Climate Science Center.

http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html

http://www.muckety.com/Senate-Interi...030412.muckety

[ashmanjeepXJ]

Back to the top.

Is the Sonoran Desert Protection Proposal still including all 7 regions?
Updates? Facts?

Area #1 we can not loose, that is half our trails right there.

Area #2 in the original map is "The Boulders"

Copied from NAXJA:
The AZOHVC met with the City of Peoria Planning on May30. The city was left with a CD with data and hard copy of all our (ATR and AZOHVC)work at the BLM boulders area as well as all the BLM planning docs and maps of the SRMA that is the Boulders OHV area.
The city took all the info and would look at adding in the comments on OHV use and would also meet with the BLM on the area. (Something they had not yet done).

Ride Now met with the Peoria Mayor on June 4 and expressed our concerns on keeping OHV use in the area as both an economic need and a social recreation need. the Mayor was not aware that OHV use was not included in the draft.

What can the rest of us do?
There are 4 more meetings for this plan draft.

Meeting #1
June 6, 2012 @ 5:00 p.m.
DCSB Point of View Room
9875 N. 85th Avenue

Meeting #2
June 12, 2012 @ 6:00 p.m.
Vistancia Elementary School (library)
30009 N. Sunrise Point

Meeting #3
July 12, 2012 @ 6:00 p.m.
Peoria Chamber of Commerce
8631 W. Union Hills Dr. #203

Meeting #4
July 26, 2012 @ 6:00 p.m.
Sunrise Mountain Library
21200 North 83rd Avenue

[Mad Machinist]

Here's an idea of what impact we have on Maricopa County.

http://azstateparks.com/OHV/download...I_maricopa.pdf

Done in 2003.

$1.8 billion dollars in direct and indirect impacts.

13,111 jobs.

And with the DOCUMENTED increase in OHV use (347% by the USFS and the BLM) it all adds up rather quickly.

[Shadow man]

Well with the amount of Californicators that escaped to AZ, you had to know this liberal land grabbing bullshit had to start there eventually.
The best thing to do with these land grabbers?
Exterminate them.
The off-road community has been too kind to these bastards for too damn long. It is time to get nasty and mean.
The problem in today's society is, if you are kind and polite, it is then assumed that you are weak. The off-road community needs to throw the first punch. Take em down right away. Make it personal.
Additionally, politicians take silence as acceptance of policy. If you don't raise hell and keep raising hell and intensify it, we will lose.
That is my problem with land rights groups, they are too damn pacifistic.

[Mad Machinist]

This whole thing is based on a house of lies. And it is going to be exposed at one of their meetings.

Depending on which way they want to take this at the meeting it is either going to be VERY bad for them or result in the total destruction of this agenda.

[Stonebone]

If we can't get along let's get it on. We gotta stop mincing words, and tell them enough them enough.

[navig8r]

I know this thread is over a year old, but I just saw it.

My question is what happens to the folks that have legal mineral claims in the Belmont Mountains?

Thanks
Navig8r

[Mad Machinist]

Originally Posted by navig8r

I know this thread is over a year old, but I just saw it.

My question is what happens to the folks that have legal mineral claims in the Belmont Mountains?

Thanks
Navig8r

As it stands right now this is a dead issue. We killed it by basically showing up at the meetings and blowing giant holes in the proposal.

If this had passed, those legal mineral claims would have been basically worthless as they would have been in a "wilderness" area and damn difficult to get to. You would have still had access, but they would have made it as hard as they possible could for you to get there so you would give up the claim.

[LYIN' KING]

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