Is Mog 5cyl diesel same as OM 617? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Berg · 12-29-2002, 08:50 AM

I figured you guys should know this...

Curious to know if the Mog diesel engines are basically the same or similar engines as used in 300TDs ( automobiles) OM617?
I was assuming the Mog 5 cylinder diesel would have more torque that the OM617 used in cars? But I would like to know!

There was some talk over on the PBB landcrusier board about http://www.4x4labs.com/diesel.html making an adapter for mating 5 cyl 300TDs into cruisers. Seems like the talk turned to the fact these engines might be anemic in the power/torque category...
.... I would have thought a big 300TD 4 door Merc would weigh as much as a softop cruiser??
..............any thoughts?

thanks

bennett

road1will · 12-29-2002, 08:53 AM

i dont think mogs ever came with 5cyl diesels?

406s and 416s came with OM352(?) diesels which are 5.7l inline 6 beasts. later U series trucks had the same line of engine, but with an added "a" suffix which means turbo.

Berg · 12-29-2002, 09:04 AM

I think Coachgeo from this bb has a 5 cyl in his Mog..
____________________________________

I pulled this from over on the Land Cruiser forum.

"I got a little Mercedes Diesel in my Unimog. 5cyl turbo diesel

Did you know all the diesels listed here could run off free fuel you get from your favorite resturant?

Mine is going to."
Posted by Coachgeo 12/29/02

Bennett

road1will · 12-29-2002, 09:07 AM

yeah, thats been transplanted from a sedan. all 404s were gas powered from the factory.

coachgeo · 12-29-2002, 09:12 AM

Yep Yep it is a transplant. I have the turbo variant. Just the Kit; new bellhousing and small stuff, to install this thing in a mog is a good 2 grand in US dollars. The OM617 does not fit well in a mog unless you tilt it 13 degrees.

Don't know about how well it would fit in a cruiser. Maybe put its auto tranny in with it?

Berg · 12-29-2002, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 9V
yeah, thats been transplanted from a sedan. all 404s were gas powered from the factory.

Thanks 9Volt... do you know if it's underpowered ?

Seems like I read somewhere they only put ouot 185ft lbs of torque?

***update.. I guess Coachgeo was posting as I was replying***
I will direct the question to him..thanks

bennett

coachgeo · 12-29-2002, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bennett
I figured you guys should know this...

Curious to know if the Mog diesel engines are basically the same or similar engines as used in 300TDs ( automobiles) OM617?
I was assuming the Mog 5 cylinder diesel would have more torque that the OM617 used in cars? But I would like to know!

There was some talk over on the PBB landcrusier board about http://www.4x4labs.com/diesel.html making an adapter for mating 5 cyl 300TDs into cruisers. Seems like the talk turned to the fact these engines might be anemic in the power/torque category...
.... I would have thought a big 300TD 4 door Merc would weigh as much as a softop cruiser??
..............any thoughts?

thanks

bennett

I cant compare for you sorry. I bought my rig with the transplant allready performed. I have never driven a different Mog or Merc car/wagon.

EUROTRUCK · 12-29-2002, 10:55 AM

Bennett,

The OM 617 engine is a dog but man will it run forever. A better choice for the FJ 40 would be the Cummins conversion recently discussed in the Land Cruiser forum on PBB. Toyota builds excellent diesel engines but they are hard to come by here in the States. You might look into some of the Toyota forklift engines that are sold here. Maybe something will pan out there.

9V,

There was a special production of diesel 404's for the Angolan Army in Africa. Not sure which engine was used but I do know that it was done at the factory.

Here's a list of diesel engines that have been used in the UNIMOG:

OM 636 4 cyl 1.8 l
OM 616 4 cyl 2.4 l aka 240 D
OM 314 4 cyl 3.8 l
OM 352 6 cyl 5.7 l
OM 353 6 cyl 5.7 l
OM 352A 6 cyl 5.7 l A=turbocharger
OM 602 5 cyl 2.9 l
OM 364A 4 cyl 4.0 l A=turbocharger
OM 364LA 4 cyl 4.0 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler
OM 366 6 cyl 6.0 l
OM 366A 6 cyl 6.0 l A=turbocharger
OM 366LA 6 cyl 6.0 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler
OM 904LA 4 cyl 4.2 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler
OM 906LA 6 cyl 6.4 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler

The OM 906 LA is the engine in the new Freightliner Unimog U 500. The U 500 is the first ever EPA/DOT certified Unimog to be considered a motor vehicle for importation into the USA. You'll be able to purchase them in 2003 from select Freightliner dealers.

Mmmmmmmm Diesels! <Homer Simpson voice>

EuroTruck

Philabuster · 01-03-2003, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bennett

Thanks 9Volt... do you know if it's underpowered ?

Seems like I read somewhere they only put ouot 185ft lbs of torque?

***update.. I guess Coachgeo was posting as I was replying***
I will direct the question to him..thanks

bennett

Mercedes diesel car page

Take an old Mercedes turbo diesel out for a drive. I think it will surprise you. My turbo wagon weighs in at 3800lbs. It certainly dosen't feel like a diesel when I push the skinny pedal to the floor. Car will do over 100 MPH with no problem.

Gear it lower and it makes one good off road engine. The 617 has a wide power band as opposed to the heavier Cummins. IMO, both are good engines, but for a light 4x4, the 617 would be my first choice.

That Mick · 01-05-2003, 11:32 AM

Phil, how would that 5 cylinder compare size and wieght wise to a AMC/Toyo 258???

<thinking evil thoughts>

Matt

Philabuster · 01-05-2003, 11:43 PM

Matt,

Sorry, I have no clue about the specs or size of the AMC 258. Any one else know?

I do know the 617 is a high revving diesel with a broad power band. Pretty fun to drive too. I don't know squat about the 258. Prolly have to talk to the Jeep guys on this one.

617 engine dimensions:

Approx 33" long and 570 lbs with all accesories.

That Mick · 01-06-2003, 05:26 PM

Phil, whats the hieght of a turboed 617?

Length is comparable, as is weight.
I've got a tired 258 in my DD, and I think I want me next motor to go Clatter,Clatter, Bang, Bang, Bang.

Unfortunatly, there isn't a whole lot of room in the engine bay.

Berg · 01-07-2003, 06:50 AM

Pics of our Mercedes eninge. Only real problem besides the adapter may be the front sump.

http://www.collegeinternetsolutions....merc300td.html

I believe the 2 F weighs 750lbs??
The merecedes weighs 600 lbs
I still think it would be a pretty good conversion in a topless 40 with 32" tires

Philabuster · 01-07-2003, 10:20 AM

Mick,

The 617 measures 26" tall from front sump oil pan to valve cover.

The engine does clatter somewhat at idle, but no loud clatter or bang, bang like a Cummins. This engine was built for a luxury car, you know.

Anything over an idle and you would never know it's a diesel--nice and quiet.

It sure makes hearing your spotters (or the drive up window

) a lot easier.

Cummins engines are awesome, but if you don't put a ton of sound deadening insulation around the engine, you will need an intercom to hear your passenger again.

Philabuster · 01-07-2003, 10:23 AM

Bennett,

Is that exhaust the particle trap oxidizer on your engine? I have never seen one. Does it have the EGR valve too?

vtunimog · 04-07-2003, 10:38 AM

In Europe they put everything from the OM615 2.2L Diesels (how is 60 Kmh for a top speed sound ?) to the OM617A (120 hp ish and a red line approaching that of the stock M180 gas engine). As diesels go the OM Mercedes series are probably the longest lived, most reliable and widely found in the world. They tough, dependable, cheap to run (for the most part), and the bolt pattern fits the mog quite easily. Shoe-horning a Turbo diesel into the 404 is a task. I would suggest you visit www.unimog.nl and click on the tech section (click the British flag for english btw). The website owner built a 404.0 with a OM617A attached via shaft to a stock 300D bellhousing. Looks and works great from what I hear.

The Toyota diesels are excellent also, however rev range is a bit lower, torque curve I am not sure about. But before I sink 3 -5K into the conversion process I would investigate a VW TDI. Can be tweaked to give 140HP, has loads of low end torque and screams compared to most rev limits on small displacement diesels.

Chris M

12-29-2002, 08:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
Berg Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Member # 1176 Location: Utah Posts: 2,474	Is Mog 5cyl diesel same as OM 617? I figured you guys should know this... Curious to know if the Mog diesel engines are basically the same or similar engines as used in 300TDs ( automobiles) OM617? I was assuming the Mog 5 cylinder diesel would have more torque that the OM617 used in cars? But I would like to know! There was some talk over on the PBB landcrusier board about http://www.4x4labs.com/diesel.html making an adapter for mating 5 cyl 300TDs into cruisers. Seems like the talk turned to the fact these engines might be anemic in the power/torque category... .... I would have thought a big 300TD 4 door Merc would weigh as much as a softop cruiser?? ..............any thoughts? thanks bennett Last edited by Berg; 12-29-2002 at 08:52 AM.

12-29-2002, 09:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
coachgeo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2708 Location: Pilot Point Tx Posts: 2,912	Transplant Yep Yep it is a transplant. I have the turbo variant. Just the Kit; new bellhousing and small stuff, to install this thing in a mog is a good 2 grand in US dollars. The OM617 does not fit well in a mog unless you tilt it 13 degrees. Don't know about how well it would fit in a cruiser. Maybe put its auto tranny in with it? __________________ It's a Daimler thing: You wouldnt understand! [i]"I work on a fishing boat. I started as a Apprentice Baiter. Now I am a Journeyman baiter. One day I hope to make Master Baiter". (By DEnd)[/i]

12-29-2002, 10:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
EUROTRUCK Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12704 Location: Oakwood, GA - USA Posts: 122	OM 617 Engine Bennett, The OM 617 engine is a dog but man will it run forever. A better choice for the FJ 40 would be the Cummins conversion recently discussed in the Land Cruiser forum on PBB. Toyota builds excellent diesel engines but they are hard to come by here in the States. You might look into some of the Toyota forklift engines that are sold here. Maybe something will pan out there. 9V, There was a special production of diesel 404's for the Angolan Army in Africa. Not sure which engine was used but I do know that it was done at the factory. Here's a list of diesel engines that have been used in the UNIMOG: OM 636 4 cyl 1.8 l OM 616 4 cyl 2.4 l aka 240 D OM 314 4 cyl 3.8 l OM 352 6 cyl 5.7 l OM 353 6 cyl 5.7 l OM 352A 6 cyl 5.7 l A=turbocharger OM 602 5 cyl 2.9 l OM 364A 4 cyl 4.0 l A=turbocharger OM 364LA 4 cyl 4.0 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler OM 366 6 cyl 6.0 l OM 366A 6 cyl 6.0 l A=turbocharger OM 366LA 6 cyl 6.0 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler OM 904LA 4 cyl 4.2 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler OM 906LA 6 cyl 6.4 l LA=turbocharger w/intercooler The OM 906 LA is the engine in the new Freightliner Unimog U 500. The U 500 is the first ever EPA/DOT certified Unimog to be considered a motor vehicle for importation into the USA. You'll be able to purchase them in 2003 from select Freightliner dealers. Mmmmmmmm Diesels! <Homer Simpson voice> EuroTruck __________________ [COLOR=Red][SIZE=3]Unimog Sales - Service - Parts[/SIZE][/COLOR] [URL=http://www.eurotruck-importers.com]www.eurotruck-importers.com[/URL]

01-05-2003, 11:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
That Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7430 Location: Wright WY Posts: 1,052	Phil, how would that 5 cylinder compare size and wieght wise to a AMC/Toyo 258??? <thinking evil thoughts> Matt __________________ "Man, your playlist has Merl Haggard and Megadeth- You're like the Hillbilly From Hell!!"

01-05-2003, 11:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
Philabuster Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13350 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 201	Matt, Sorry, I have no clue about the specs or size of the AMC 258. Any one else know? I do know the 617 is a high revving diesel with a broad power band. Pretty fun to drive too. I don't know squat about the 258. Prolly have to talk to the Jeep guys on this one. 617 engine dimensions: Approx 33" long and 570 lbs with all accesories. __________________ Phil 2001 CTD 2500 QCSB 6SP 4X4 1980 Turbo Diesel Scout II Last edited by Philabuster; 01-06-2003 at 12:21 AM.

12-29-2002, 08:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
road1will Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8871 Location: Cleveland Tennessee Posts: 3,344	i dont think mogs ever came with 5cyl diesels? 406s and 416s came with OM352(?) diesels which are 5.7l inline 6 beasts. later U series trucks had the same line of engine, but with an added "a" suffix which means turbo.

12-29-2002, 09:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Berg Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Member # 1176 Location: Utah Posts: 2,474	I think Coachgeo from this bb has a 5 cyl in his Mog.. ____________________________________ I pulled this from over on the Land Cruiser forum. "I got a little Mercedes Diesel in my Unimog. 5cyl turbo diesel Did you know all the diesels listed here could run off free fuel you get from your favorite resturant? Mine is going to." Posted by Coachgeo 12/29/02 Bennett

12-29-2002, 09:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
road1will Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8871 Location: Cleveland Tennessee Posts: 3,344	yeah, thats been transplanted from a sedan. all 404s were gas powered from the factory.

01-06-2003, 05:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
That Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7430 Location: Wright WY Posts: 1,052	Phil, whats the hieght of a turboed 617? Length is comparable, as is weight. I've got a tired 258 in my DD, and I think I want me next motor to go Clatter,Clatter, Bang, Bang, Bang. Unfortunatly, there isn't a whole lot of room in the engine bay. __________________ "Man, your playlist has Merl Haggard and Megadeth- You're like the Hillbilly From Hell!!"

01-07-2003, 06:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Berg Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Member # 1176 Location: Utah Posts: 2,474	Pics of our Mercedes eninge. Only real problem besides the adapter may be the front sump. http://www.collegeinternetsolutions....merc300td.html I believe the 2 F weighs 750lbs?? The merecedes weighs 600 lbs I still think it would be a pretty good conversion in a topless 40 with 32" tires

01-07-2003, 10:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Philabuster Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13350 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 201	Mick, The 617 measures 26" tall from front sump oil pan to valve cover. The engine does clatter somewhat at idle, but no loud clatter or bang, bang like a Cummins. This engine was built for a luxury car, you know. Anything over an idle and you would never know it's a diesel--nice and quiet. It sure makes hearing your spotters (or the drive up window ) a lot easier. Cummins engines are awesome, but if you don't put a ton of sound deadening insulation around the engine, you will need an intercom to hear your passenger again. __________________ Phil 2001 CTD 2500 QCSB 6SP 4X4 1980 Turbo Diesel Scout II

01-07-2003, 10:23 AM	#15 (permalink)
Philabuster Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13350 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 201	Bennett, Is that exhaust the particle trap oxidizer on your engine? I have never seen one. Does it have the EGR valve too? __________________ Phil 2001 CTD 2500 QCSB 6SP 4X4 1980 Turbo Diesel Scout II Last edited by Philabuster; 01-07-2003 at 10:26 AM.

04-07-2003, 10:38 AM	#16 (permalink)
vtunimog Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Member # 14694 Location: Vermont Posts: 14	404 Diesels In Europe they put everything from the OM615 2.2L Diesels (how is 60 Kmh for a top speed sound ?) to the OM617A (120 hp ish and a red line approaching that of the stock M180 gas engine). As diesels go the OM Mercedes series are probably the longest lived, most reliable and widely found in the world. They tough, dependable, cheap to run (for the most part), and the bolt pattern fits the mog quite easily. Shoe-horning a Turbo diesel into the 404 is a task. I would suggest you visit www.unimog.nl and click on the tech section (click the British flag for english btw). The website owner built a 404.0 with a OM617A attached via shaft to a stock 300D bellhousing. Looks and works great from what I hear. The Toyota diesels are excellent also, however rev range is a bit lower, torque curve I am not sure about. But before I sink 3 -5K into the conversion process I would investigate a VW TDI. Can be tweaked to give 140HP, has loads of low end torque and screams compared to most rev limits on small displacement diesels. Chris M __________________ Chris M. http://www.vermont-unimog.com

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