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Old 01-25-2003, 03:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unimog axles on Wrangler TJ

Dear friends,

I have seen that you have some experience on Unimog axle.
I live in Switzerland and I have a Wrangler TJ with 4 liters motor.
It have Dana 60 axle front and rear from Dynatrac. They are 1600 mm wide (63 inch)
But thes axles are too heavy and I lose a lot of ground clearance.
I d’like to mount portal axle system.
The TJ is also equipped with front and rear winch, 4 inch lift kit from Currie, 3 inch body-lift and 37 x 13 R16 Super Swamper Bogger

Today, I have controlled the weight, it’ s 2140 kg ! !

I have found and buy axle from Unimog 411 (3 pair) :
- 1 of 411 in stamped steel
– 1 of 411 in cast iron
– 1 of 421 in cast iron (these are 4 inch wider as the other of 411)


They are shorter as the axle of the Jeep but they are no so heavy as the 404.
I mean this, maybe I am wrong ?

Which axle is the better choice for the TJ(maybe, I will mount a strocker Motor 4,6 L, 250 HP)

I need to retain the stock pattern 5 on 5.5 (it’s changed from 5 on 4,5)
So I will use normaly wheel of Jeep 16 inch and with disc brake.

What about the flange, how to fix it, where to find and for which price ?

How did you your transformation ?
How to fix the arms and the track bar
How it’s drive on the road ?(now with the dana 60, it’s driving like a boot, the are heavy and follow the road).

Do you have some photos of a transformation ?


What do you expect about the weight ? Can my Jeep be lighter ?

What is your experience ? Can you help me

Excuse me for the English, normally, I speak French but you can me also answer in German if you prefer


Thank you for your help

Cyrille
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Old 02-06-2003, 02:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I need your help,please ???

Hello my friends,

Where are you Wolfgang, Jare, cruiserrg, coachgéo, Scout Dude ???

Could you give me some informations ???
Thank you in advance
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Old 02-06-2003, 06:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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With your heading being TJ , I think not many were reading your post. I dont know of any TJ's in the US with Mog axles. I know for me I do have a TJ but my Mog axles are on my Mog and Ive never done an axle swap. Wolfgang has been in the process of moving from Germany to the US so I'm guessing we have seen little of him lately due to that.

Here is what I suggest, if you have not done so already, read the various post from those talking about Mog 404 axles they have put into their various type of rigs. Their are some in this forum you can find with a simple search using "Mog Axles". Their is also one running in the Jeep forum where a guy is putting Mog axles in a Jeep WJ.

Armed with this information I bet you can figure out what u need to know to do a conversion on a TJ using 404 axles. Nowwwww compare this information with the differences between the 404 axles and the 411 and then reengineer to match what you need to use the 411 axle that u want under your TJ. That's what every one else around here does. They take information from many sources and design according to their specific application and the parts they have collected.

Hint... in the Topics I have stuck to the top of this forum is a thread on Axles. I have placed alot of material there from post in this form that were written about Mog axles. In that is some information on 411 axles.

Hint... here are some of the things that I recall from reading different post in here about 404 axles.
1. you have to do a pinion conversion (there is some recent post in here about that)
2. (A) Clearance issues with the Oil pan and the pumpkin.
(B) You have to shorten the axle tube and shaft length
Since you have to shorten then do so in a way that puts the pumpking in the best position for clearance issues.
3. Some have had to do some creative engineering to figure out where and how to put a coil spring mount on the axle cause the pumpkin is sorta right in the way.

I suspect you will have to do something simular on 411 axles cept maybe you will actually have to lengthen an axle tube and axle shaft instead of shortening. This may end up bringing the axle weight to the same as 404 axles?

weight? see the thread I refer to above their may be info about that in there as well.

Brakes conversions and keeping your prefered wheel pattern.:

Go to the various vendor sites like Exact and killeraxle who sell disk brake conversions and lug conversion. No one in the US that I know of has yet to figure out a way to do this in a way thats much cheaper then the ones these guys sell. Many are working on it but I dont know of anyone that has been successfull yet. Its not cheap. Many seem to be going with Hummer rims changed to match Mog axles cause it is cheaper than converting the axle.
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Old 02-06-2003, 07:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry, I originally missed this thread topic.

One of our customers has a set of narrowed 404 Mog axles under his TJ right now. And every picture I see of him has a big smile on his face. :-) It was a serious conversion, but he made it work. Some pics of this will be up on the website once I'm done rewriting it. We're building some sets for YJ's right now too.

Swiss Jeeper, if you want, give me a call or send me an email at rbryce@exaxt.ca. You're asking for too much information to be posted here (I don't type that fast!). But I don't deal with 411 axles.

Disk brakes: yeah, it isn't cheap. It's got a high price tag, but as I'm sure Wolfgang will agree, it's certainly not a cheap thing to design or build either. I've gone over things many times and I just can't drive the price down (and believe me, I'd like to). BTW, we're doing new billet hubs for this now too.

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Old 02-06-2003, 08:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hallo Swiss Jeeper
Wie hier schon gesagt wurde bin ich gerade dabei hier in USA ein Geschäft zu eröffnen. Ich will dir gerne weiterhelfen. Ich bin vom 12.-14 Febr. wieder in Deutschland und dann wieder ab dem 20. Februar. Schicke mir eine mail mit deiner Telefonnummer und ich werde dich anrufen. Du kannst uns in USA unter +1 801 334 7737 oder in Deutschland unter +49 4421 997690 erreichen.
Dein Vorhaben ist nicht ganz einfach aber realisierbar.
Gruß
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Old 02-07-2003, 07:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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TJ with Mogs. Don't know much about it. Supposedly 40x12.5 tires, stock springs. Hope that helps.
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Old 02-07-2003, 08:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Swiss Jeeper,

Sorry I didn't reply at first, but I don't know a hole lot about the 411 axles. And to be honest most things I have learn have benn from reading posts here and talking with guys selling aftermarket parts and axles.

As far as the weight, I would probably bet the stamped steel housings will be lighter than the cast ones. But that doesn't mean they will be stronger. I also don't think you will save much weight over a Dana 60 and will probably gain some weight due to the diff and portals. You will get major clearance though, which I fell make up for the weight gain.

I don't know of anyone making a 5 on 5.5 hub or adapter for the wheels. But that pattern is smaller than the MOG pattern and machining a bolt on wheel adapter may be possible rather than a complete new hub. I personally have given up on making a bolt on adapter to go to 8 x 6.5 because it would be just too difficult to make on my own.

The pinion flange conversion can be had from any aftermarket MOG parts supplier. I recently posted pic of the kit I got, just search under my user ID.

As far as getting them into my rig, it has been all custom 4 links and fabrication. I don't know exactly what would need to be done to place them under a TJ, but engine clearance become a major issue. I would really look at fabrication a different suspension rather than modifying the stock suspension. With the longer diff and offsets of the axles, this would be hard to do with the short link arm in a TJ.
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Old 02-08-2003, 05:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Talking

Thank you guys for the help
Coachgeo, I have print and read all information for this forum, the difficult is to assemble these info and find what to do

Ryeguy, is it possible to have some info about this TJ (photos, e-mail of the owner, cost ......)

Wolfgang, ich will dir dann nächst Woche anrufen, ich habe viele Fragen.

Go 4lo, I have follow the link for this TJ called Moggler and I have find the e-mail of this person. I will ask him

At the moment, this only a project. I have 6 axle of 411 and I am studing if it'possible.
Here in Switzerland, it's forbiden to drive off the road, so we can't drive in the forrest or other place. We have to go to France where they are a lot of place.
Second problem, the law is very stricly, you can't transform a car and drive on the road. We have to go to a special office and the guy control everythings.
All transformations have to be agree from the manufacturer of the car. In other word, the transformation of my Jeep have to be agreed of Daimler Chrysler when I will drive on the road with insurance.
Other transformations are made in own risk of the owner !!!
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Old 02-08-2003, 08:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Swiss Jeeper
you can't transform a car and drive on the road. We have to go to a special office and the guy control everythings.
All transformations have to be agree from the manufacturer of the car. In other word, the transformation of my Jeep have to be agreed of Daimler Chrysler when I will drive on the road with insurance.
Other transformations are made in own risk of the owner !!!
Well, most of the modifications we do here are illegal too, but we have too many laws for the police to remember every one of them.

BTW, you mentioned my name in the list above....I have very little tech knowledge of the different kinds of mog axles...I just picked up the phone and called Ryeguy and ordered a custom set of 404's because I have seen them take a ton of abuse so they seemed good enough for me

I don't even know what a 411 is
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Old 02-17-2003, 02:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, most of the modifications we do here are illegal too, but we have too many laws for the police to remember every one of them.
Yeah, but sometimes they make up thier own!!!
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Old 04-13-2003, 11:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hello All

I´m Mariano Lozano from Santiago, CHILE.

I own a 4 banger TJ and i´m thinking on portals too.

Here in Chile is imposible to find Volvo portals, so i´m thinking on Mog portals.

I´ve seen pics of the MOGGLER, but i have no info about it.

Anyone knows what model of MOG they got the portals for the TJ?, have they narrowed the axles? what size are the rims and tires? what kind of brakes are they using? Any buildup pics?

Here are a couple of pics of the MOGGLER:








CLICK FOR MY MOGGLER GALLERY

Thanks

Mariano Lozano
Santiago, CHILE

Last edited by mlozano; 04-13-2003 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 04-14-2003, 08:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Very nice job on the "MOGGLER!"

I like everything about that Jeep.

Later.

Ken S.
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlozano
I´ve seen pics of the MOGGLER, but i have no info about it.

Anyone knows what model of MOG they got the portals for the TJ?, have they narrowed the axles? what size are the rims and tires? what kind of brakes are they using? Any buildup pics?
That's one of my customers. Axles are narrowed a bit, drum brakes, stock rims.

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Old 04-14-2003, 11:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally posted by ryeguy


That's one of my customers. Axles are narrowed a bit, drum brakes, stock rims.

--Rob
www.exaxt.ca
Hello Rob.

Great Job!..

- What model of MOG the portals came from?
- What Gear Ratio?
- How is the street driving?

Thanks

Mariano Lozano
Santiago, CHILE
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Old 04-14-2003, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey Rob, thanks for posting that and ruining my day I got sooooooo tired of all the excuses about "someone" going to make 20" tires "sometime", that I gave up my stocker rims, and have started to convert to hummers and 8 lugs. ENOUGH RAMBLING
WHO THE HELL MAKES THOSE TIRES? If not me, help us 'Mog types out.. I'd have my rig done by now If I could have found some "real" tires for the 20's.....

NO, the Michelins are TOO FRICKIN HEAVY! I have a set in my driveway for sale cheap!

WEPS

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Old 04-14-2003, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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narrowed 404's.
7.56:1
street? dunno, it's a 4cyl TJ, ~40 inch tall tires, probably not that bad
he's in Moab right now

--Rob (wished I could be in Moab right now)

Quote:
Originally posted by mlozano


Hello Rob.

Great Job!..

- What model of MOG the portals came from?
- What Gear Ratio?
- How is the street driving?

Thanks

Mariano Lozano
Santiago, CHILE
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Old 04-14-2003, 03:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Heh heh.

Those tires are Continental MPT-81's. They're not gonna be that light either.

Hummers are 8 lugs. I assume you're talking 6 lug Mog. Shouldn't be that hard to do, and you get dual beadlocks. Sounds like a good move to me.

--Rob

Quote:
Originally posted by weps
Hey Rob, thanks for posting that and ruining my day I got sooooooo tired of all the excuses about "someone" going to make 20" tires "sometime", that I gave up my stocker rims, and have started to convert to hummers and 8 lugs. ENOUGH RAMBLING
WHO THE HELL MAKES THOSE TIRES? If not me, help us 'Mog types out.. I'd have my rig done by now If I could have found some "real" tires for the 20's.....

NO, the Michelins are TOO FRICKIN HEAVY! I have a set in my driveway for sale cheap!

WEPS
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Old 04-18-2003, 03:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by weps
Hey Rob, thanks for posting that and ruining my day I got sooooooo tired of all the excuses about "someone" going to make 20" tires "sometime", that I gave up my stocker rims, and have started to convert to hummers and 8 lugs. ENOUGH RAMBLING
WHO THE HELL MAKES THOSE TIRES? If not me, help us 'Mog types out.. I'd have my rig done by now If I could have found some "real" tires for the 20's.....

NO, the Michelins are TOO FRICKIN HEAVY! I have a set in my driveway for sale cheap!

WEPS
What size tires are you looking for? As was stated above, those tires in the pictures are 12.5R20 tires. The 12.5R20 Michelin XL's are not heavy at all for their size, and they are quite flexible. I can easily carry two 12.5R20 XL's by myself, and am guessing they are at 70#'s or less.

Sean
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Old 04-20-2003, 04:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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hey swiss jeeper!
since you're in europe, have you looked into running volvo portals? they are a lot lighter and a little narower than the mog portals and should be easy enough for you to find. not that i'm trying to talk you out of mog axles, they are super strong, but at least you can check out all your options before diving into your big project.
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Old 04-21-2003, 12:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hello orangefj45,

You are right, I am in Europe. But Europe is relatively big and a lot of different languages.
The Volvo axle are very difficult to find and for the spares parts, it,s impossible.
But for Unimog axles, tey are everywhere, small and big type.

Cyrille
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Old 04-23-2003, 10:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Swiss Jeeper
Hello orangefj45,

But for Unimog axles, tey are everywhere, small and big type.

Cyrille
EVERYWHERE?? Where would be good place to buy some parts? Or maybe complete axles? Oh, and ofcourse on good low price

Jare from Finland
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Hello Jare,
I can find without problems 411 and 421 axles in cast irom and in steel and if you like new one !!!
But I can't organize the shipping, they ex my home in Switzerland
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Wolfgang
Hallo Swiss Jeeper
Wie hier schon gesagt wurde bin ich gerade dabei hier in USA ein Geschäft zu eröffnen. Ich will dir gerne weiterhelfen. Ich bin vom 12.-14 Febr. wieder in Deutschland und dann wieder ab dem 20. Februar. Schicke mir eine mail mit deiner Telefonnummer und ich werde dich anrufen. Du kannst uns in USA unter +1 801 334 7737 oder in Deutschland unter +49 4421 997690 erreichen.
Dein Vorhaben ist nicht ganz einfach aber realisierbar.
Gruß
Wolfgang
My thoughts exactly
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
Hallo Swiss Jeeper
Wie hier schon gesagt wurde bin ich gerade dabei hier in USA ein Geschäft zu eröffnen. Ich will dir gerne weiterhelfen. Ich bin vom 12.-14 Febr. wieder in Deutschland und dann wieder ab dem 20. Februar. Schicke mir eine mail mit deiner Telefonnummer und ich werde dich anrufen. Du kannst uns in USA unter +1 801 334 7737 oder in Deutschland unter +49 4421 997690 erreichen.
Dein Vorhaben ist nicht ganz einfach aber realisierbar.
Gruß
Wolfgang
Here ya go Flexy Flatty... hehe So you're not completly lost. I used http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate that.

"Hello Swiss Jeeper like was here already said is I straight thereby in the USA a business to be opened here. I want to help you gladly. I am of 12.-14 Febr. again in Germany and then again starting from 20 February. Send to me one mail with your telephone number and I you will call. You can reach us in the USA under +1,801,334 7737 or in Germany under +49 4421 997690. Your project is not completely simply however realizable. Greeting Wolfgang "

Later

Ken S.
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Swiss jeeper, where can you buy boggers in europe, and what is the price?

Thanks
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