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Old 02-27-2003, 09:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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406/416 gearing

Can anybody point me at a resource that lists gearing (gear ratios, gear reduction, ect) for standard 6-speed and the 8 speed conversions that one normally sees on 416's ?

I think the 6 speed 404 box is something like 110:1 in 1st - do the 416's have the same gear set's ?

Also, is there a resource that shows ratios with different axle gear sets (fast, superfast, ect) ?

I'm talking to people about getting a 416. I originally thought I wanted the big tranny (or at least the working gears) for serious off-road work, but now I find that, even thought the gearing is stupid-low, they probably aren't strong enough for nasty crawling.

Anybody help ?? Thanks !

keith
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Google

found this faster with Google than I could in my own archives

http://www.unimog-forever.com/Grease...6xm/e406xm.htm

I heard that 404 crawler gears were suspect to breakage but not heard about 406/416 gears. Course I've not seen or heard of any "proof" to the 404 weaknesses either.

Call any of the Mog Parts Vendors and they will give u the skinny Iím sure. Call several and form your own opinion. Scott Ingrahm (expedition imports) lurks here he may have a word or two on the subject.
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Keith:

The gear ratio's for the 6 speed and the 8 speed that come on a 416
are the same. The difference is that the 8 speed has 2 more gear ratios
between the top and bottom gear.

1st gear is 14.53 in both
2nd 8.03 in both

6 and 8th is 1.00 in both transmissions

The 20speed transmission is a standard 6 speed with a cascade box on the front of it. The lowest ratio is 623.05 : 1.

The stock diff ratio it 22:7 (3.14) and the portal ratio is 27:13 (2.07).

If you total up the ratio you get a low gear ratio of 4,062:1.

With the 20 you can pick just about any ratio you want for crawling.

The cascade box probably is not as strong as the straight 6 or 8 speeds. There
are later models of the cascade box that are stronger than the earlier models.

You can get faster diff. gears but they are very expensive. You best bet is to fine
a 416 that was used for a fire truck they usually has faster axles.

The gear ratios for the 416 and the 404 are very similar in the tranmission. The differential and portal gearing is different. If you have any question I can help you with give me a call 765-362-8051. I am presently working on a 416 based
project.
take care
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Old 02-27-2003, 07:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey Doc.

Welcome to Pirate Doc.

Glad to see ya on board and many thanks for jumping in up to yar boot tops and offering tech. advice and friendship from the get go.

Hope ta see ya agian at an event somewhere. Fill me it on how Mitchell M. is making out if ya dont mind. YOu know he doesnt talk much.
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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406/416 gearing

Quote:
Originally posted by drj


The stock diff ratio it 22:7 (3.14) and the portal ratio is 27:13 (2.07).

If you total up the ratio you get a low gear ratio of 4,062:1.


These numbers are for the 406 and the actual total axle ratio number should be 6.527:1.

The numbers for the standard 416 axle are as follows:

Differential --3.143:1
Portal -------1.929:1
Total ratio --6.061:1

416 Fast axle ratios (these are the fire truck axles that DRJ mentioned):

Differential: --2.555:1
Portal: -------2.077:1
Total ratio: --5.308:1

The standard gearbox in the 406/416 is the UG 2/27 built by Mercedes. Gear ratios are as follows:

-------6-speed
1st---14.53:1
2nd---8.66:1
3rd----4.50:1
4th----2.69:1
5th----1.65:1
6th----1.00:1


--------8-speed
1st----14.53:1
2nd----8.66:1
3rd-----5.31:1
4th-----3.23:1
5th-----4.50:1
6th-----2.69:1
7th-----1.65:1
8th-----1.00:1


The breakdown for transmission reductions is as follows:
(note: this is with the 6-speed gearbox)

Intermediate gear reduction
1st----18.45:1
2nd---10.99:1
3rd-----5.71:1
4th-----3.41:1
5th-----2.09:1
6th-----1.27:1

Intermediate and crawler gear reduction
1st----67.85:1
2nd---40.44:1
3rd----21.00:1
4th----12.56:1
5th----blocked out
6th----blocked out

Intermediate, crawler and super crawler gear reduction
1st----623.05:1
2nd---371.34:1
3rd----192.95:1
4th----115.34:1
5th----blocked out
6th----blocked out

6+6+4+4 gives you the 20 ratios of the 20 speed gearbox.

The highest horsepower engine ever installed in the 406/416 series was 125 hp and the factory liked to use the 8-speed gearbox with this engine. You can certainly rock crawl with the 20 or 24 speed and it will last for a long time as long as you choose the right ratio for the obstacle. As with any transmission, undue abuse reduces the life expectancy.

Hope this helps.

-EuroTruck
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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OK - great. That's good info.

Now, is the overall crawl ratio found by multiplying the gear ratio by the diff ratio and then the axle ratio ?

So, for standard axles: 14.53x3.143x1.929=88.09..

And fast axles: 14.53x2.555x2.077=77.10..

If that's the case, both of those look just find for any kind of wheeling, if not maybe a little low in 1st.

Where is the torque peak of a OM352 motor ?

How would the torque converter found on the 406 tugs hold up to heavy rock crawling ?

Lot's of questions but since I'm probably going to have to swap a bunch of parts to get close to what I want in a 416, I need to ask, or at least learn

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Old 03-03-2003, 04:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Keith:

I think you calculations for the final ratio are correct.

The peak torque for the 352 varies depending on which model you
have. One of the books I have lists 7 different engine types. If you get
the engine number we can narrow it down some. The 352 number
starts with 353.9XX. The range varies from

260 Nm to 363 Nm
at rpm form 1600 to 2000.

Alot of people turn up the injection pumps to get a little more
out of the 352 without any problems.

A 406 with a troque converter can pull something like 50 empty train cars
I think that it would work excellent as a rock crawler.

good luck

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Old 03-04-2003, 11:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks drj !

Where in IN are you - you ever get to the Badlands with your Mog ?

I understand how the torque converter fits into the drivetrain. So, how common would a 6 or 8 speed tranny 416 with a TC be ? How difficult would it be to retrofit a TC ?

Anybody on the list have experience with running a TC Mog in steep conditions ? Is it a religious experience going down steeps ??

Thanks again...

keith
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Old 03-04-2003, 08:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Keith:

I think most of the torque converters came with the 406 used to move train cars around.
I am sure it would not be to hard to put in 416 since the only major difference
is the length of the frame and rear torque tube.

I have never seen a mog with a torque converter on the trail so I can
comment on that. Maybe someone else will comment on that.

I live about 40 miles form the Badlands. I have a 404 for sale behind the office
there (cab and running gear).

Going down steep steps in a 406 can be a real religous experience unless you
have a 1000# counter weight on the back. A 416 is usually no problem.

take care
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Old 03-05-2003, 09:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by drj
I live about 40 miles form the Badlands. I have a 404 for sale behind the office
there (cab and running gear).

Going down steep steps in a 406 can be a real religous experience unless you
have a 1000# counter weight on the back. A 416 is usually no problem.
yeah - I can imagine !

I'd probably mount a spare or two over the rear axle on a 416 to help with gravity situations like that. I balanced my Rover on it's front wheels once and haven't got over it yet

I get down to the badlands a few times a year - maybe we'll see you there. If you notice a few guys with IL plates in LR Discoverys with a lot of body armour and some dents, that's probably us...

thanks for the words.

keith
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