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Old 10-18-2002, 01:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Toyo-Mog

Here you can see the Mog torque tubes attached to our T-Case with 203 Low range section, TH 400 automatic and Chevy 350.
www.killeraxles.com
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Old 10-19-2002, 05:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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TCASE

Wolfgang is the Tcase your using a Domestic US case. As in what trannies can it be fit to with out an adapter,. or maybe better said not fit to. If adapters needed what ones are available?

One thing I would like to see is a conversion for a mog tranny Torque tube output to a more standard Torque tube output that the overdrive companies already have fittings for.

That way I could put an overdrive on my 404.1. Gearvenders... think it is them. anyway. they make overdrive for Torque tubed vehicles just not the 404.
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Old 10-20-2002, 02:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If somebody like to have more info, please write a e-mail . I do not make business on the board.
Sometimes itīs hard to say where information ends and business starts.
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Old 10-20-2002, 09:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i guess that's one way of showing the driveline! nice pic wolfi!
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Old 10-20-2002, 10:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
If somebody like to have more info, please write a e-mail . I do not make business on the board.
Sometimes itīs hard to say where information ends and business starts.
Good point Wolfgang.

How common is the name Wolfgang? Only other person I know who had it was Wolfgang Omadaous (sp?) Mozart. but then I live over here and dont hear names from that side of the world daily.
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Old 10-20-2002, 11:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Wolfgang is a common name. Johann Wolfgang Goethe, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and last not least Wolfgang Tibus.
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Old 10-21-2002, 07:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wolfgang,

Do you have any more close up or detailed picks of the transfercase setup?
Is there anyway to modify the trasfercase to allow for using it without the NP203GRB?
Lastly, what suspension considerations need to be made when using the torquetubes, or can you run a standard 3/4 link setup?
Maybe some pics of the stock MOG suspension would help me invision this.
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Old 10-21-2002, 02:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cruiserrg
Wolfgang,

Do you have any more close up or detailed picks of the transfercase setup?
Is there anyway to modify the trasfercase to allow for using it without the NP203GRB?
Lastly, what suspension considerations need to be made when using the torquetubes, or can you run a standard 3/4 link setup?
Maybe some pics of the stock MOG suspension would help me invision this.
That is the beauty of the torque tube design... it is the link. All you need is a panhard rod, and the torquetube. The torque tube is set up to eliminate axle wrap, and fore-aft movement...the panhard then controls the side to side movement.

As you can see the torque tube has extra supports that run from the outer portions of the axle to the tube to keep it from flexing.
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Old 10-22-2002, 09:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Having broken NP203 cases before (NP205's too, we're talking the housings), I'd say it isn't up to the task of locating an axle in a torque tube design. I ain't saying it can't be done, just that it isn't designed for that kind of load/stress.

--Rob
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Old 10-22-2002, 11:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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right Rob, you can not take a cast housing from the 203 or 205. Weīve built a complete new steel housing and had no problems since. Itīs a lot of work to do this. This is the reason why we do not sell this housing right now, because itīs too expencive. But we are working very hard to find a cheaper way to build this with the same strenght. We are very busy, but I hope i can find the time to finish this work to the end of the year.



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Old 10-22-2002, 01:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How offest is that engine. It looks like you would have to run your header outside the frame no matter what.

It is an interesting concept. Roughly how much would the new t-case cost?

Does it have just one speed? or does it have low range too?

What is the wheelbase in that picture? It looks like the rear is WAY short for travel. It would seem that it would articulate well, but up and down travel might be limited.

Thanks for the info....
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It depends on the frame how you can route your exhaust. This is the Unimog frame width.
The T-case will cost about 1500$, but i am not sure yet. The T-case does have a low range (NP 203). The wheelbase on this picture is a stoch Toyota FJ40 wheelbase.
The articulation is excellent and the travel also not bad.
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Old 10-22-2002, 06:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hm.

I don't think it'd be wise for all frames. All load is going through the T-case. If it's a divorce mount T-case (it'd be a Ford NP203 so that was available but rare), then it would be isolated from engine torque and frame twist. But a married case (as shown in this picture) means that any engine torque and frame twist could cause the assembly to fail between the trans and T-case (most likely I'd think). Engine torque alone is what broke Tim's TH400 housing at TTC. And that T-case had a chance to flex a bit 'cause it wasn't mounted as solid as this would require. Removing frame twist (possible) would help, but the engine still has to be mounted as rigid as the T-case, then.

Don't get me wrong. Ultra cool project, one that I had toyed with and decided was too much work. And done right, I suspect it's fine. But done wrong (and I'm not talking about the steel T-case housing or any of your work but all the potential for screw-ups by the installer who doesn't understand the issues) is a recipe for broken parts.

--Rob
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Old 10-23-2002, 10:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think its a cool project and would be very cool for some applications.....

I think with the frame, unless it was way wide, which would limit the tires from turning you would have to go outside the frame. i don't really like this, but I think with careful routing of the exhaust you could get away with it. If you look in the first picture you can see the top muffler has a hole in it I think.

You would have to have a hell-a-stout mounting for that t-case system. All the forces for and aft of the suspension are going to be moving through that t-case! But you wouldn't want to have it hard mounted either, because like rob says you might break the transmission housing.

I wonder about having only a 2:1 low range. I guess with the 7.56 gearing of the portals you would be ok? rob? There is 3.6 gears for the 203 now from WMS too. I guess you could also stack a few 203s together too right!

Wolfgang- What is the wheelbase on that rig? Close to stock?

What I do like about this system is the use of the unimog torque tube suspension. I like the idea because the driveshaft is protected, and the tube suspension seems to transfer power and traction to the wheels very well.

The price isn't bad at all....hell....what does an atlas cost...or a few pinion conversions?

I like the idea.....gears are turning....
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Old 10-23-2002, 11:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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We use the Toyo for hard core offroading, even harder than the rock crawling stuff. The Toyo runs the stock wheelbase. We never had a problem with the drivetrain and the TC. In my opinion is there no need for a shorter overall ratio than the 2-1 reduction of the 203 low range. We run a TH 400 behind a Chevy 350 motor with 250 HP. Our Jeep runs a build TH 350 behind a 400 HP Chevy 454 so far without problems.
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Old 10-23-2002, 12:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I run a TH400, reverse NP203 into a regular NP205. So yeah, I agree, 2:1 ratio behind a regular automatic and into 404 axles is good for reduction. I've never needed more reduction. Manual transmissions have lower 1st gears instead of the torque converter...how much is enough? I'm happy with what I've got, some guys love having 200:1.

Last I heard (could be wrong), WMS has backed off from 3.6:1 and back to about 3:1. That was to make them fit in the Ford NP203...rumors. Either way, you can get a better low range.

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Old 10-23-2002, 12:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That is a COOL pic! I hope the water was warm!

Anyways, I think that the design has its good points. I have a few questions though Wolfgang....

-How much is the drop is in the t-case. How far from the centerline of the transmission to the centerline of the attachment point of the torque-tube? Is it possible to install this system without having your t-case, or its mounts hang below the frame of a normal jeep.

-Is that landcruiser running the stock frame?

-How much does the motor have to be moved to the passenger side from center?

-Will this bolt behind any NP203? ford or chevy or dodge?

-How hard is it to shorten the torque-tubes?

Thanks
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Old 10-23-2002, 09:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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More torque tube options (?)

This Torque tube discussion has got my mind thinking too
How about adapting something like this to a 205 or Atlas(?)

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/product_view_full_img.asp?image%5Ffile=080%2D3%2Ej pg&product%5Fname=Super+Torque%3Cbr%3E+Ball+%26+Ho using&base%5Fno=54664202&mscssid=75NMCMWXUPDN9KS2Q S6X7PAENMAHDJQB

It may be easier to obtain and work with...

Last edited by weps; 10-23-2002 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 10-23-2002, 10:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: More torque tube options (?)

Quote:
Originally posted by weps
This Torque tube discussion has got my mind thinking too
How about adapting something like this to a 205 or Atlas(?)

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/product_view_full_img.asp?image%5Ffile=080%2D3%2Ej pg&product%5Fname=Super+Torque%3Cbr%3E+Ball+%26+Ho using&base%5Fno=54664202&mscssid=75NMCMWXUPDN9KS2Q S6X7PAENMAHDJQB

It may be easier to obtain and work with...
ahhhh ok.. ahhhhh... sometimes in post you got to assume the reader (me) is clueless so u have to give more details so u educate us all; as in ahhhh .. what the hell is that a picture of?
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Old 10-24-2002, 07:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Red face More info

Sorry,
you were able to see the pic though right? That is a "universal" torque tube and mount.Widely used by sprint cars. The problem "I" have seen with using the stock 'Mog torque tube is that you just about need a mog transmission to get measurements and see how its mounting is accomplished.(then throw it away) Short of the aforementioned T-case not being strong enough info,I think this Speedway part could be easily adapted to fit the rear of an existing 205 or Atlas. Then you, the builder, could finish out your torque tube mounted axle.

Maybe this pictured mount on a midplate just aft of your Tcase??
But that is eating into wheelbase/space/length

just a thought....


(feel free to flame me for the bad link, I just could'nt get it to work...)
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Old 10-24-2002, 07:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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HTH
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Old 10-24-2002, 11:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Weps Universal Torque tube mount

Wow..... thanks cool stuff.

I'm on the other end of all this. I have a mog but would LOVEEEE to put an overdrive behind the mog tranny. One of the manufactures does make overdrives for Torque tubed trucks except not for the 404 unimog of course. I would love to adapt it to fit a mog tranny and then adapt the other end to either fit the Mog torue tube .... or modify the torque tube to fit the overdrive's torque tube output
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Last edited by coachgeo; 10-24-2002 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-24-2002, 12:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I thought of another question too...


Does this new t-case allow just 4wd? Or can you do rear wheel drive? maybe even front wheel drive?
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Old 10-24-2002, 08:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Coachgeo- you can always go with the "Rubber overdrive" on 53" Michelins

Yeah, it is a shame that Mercedes did'nt make an overdrive that bolts to the trans like the crawler box does....

This has been a good topic though

WEPS
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Old 10-25-2002, 06:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This is the proto of our conversion. 2wd rear is possible.
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