OM617 Wheelabilty?

[BMB]

I'm considering the OM617turbo for a swap into a CJ and have been trying to get as much info on them as I can.

What I have not seen a lot of is actual trail reports on how they perform and how they are set up for that use.

On another forum there was a poster pretty much dogging the engine for use in a Jeep. They claimed it would not build boost quick enough and would have too narrow of a power range to be useful on the trails. I believe they were basing their statement on driving the OM617s in auto use and did had never driven, ridin, or saw one in a 4WD.

If I do this, the Jeep would most likely be driven to the trails. I would probably use an AX15 or NV3550 and D300 with 4 to 1 low and 35's. Final gearing to be determined. Jeep is about 3700lbs now.

I would be doing medium-ish trails, but might throw in something a little harder from time to time. I go fairly slow most of the time, but do need some wheelspeed too (South East Wheeling).

From information I have found it looks like the engine gets into boost around 1800rpm and likes to cruise about 3000rpm and can spin to about 5000rpm. Does this sound correct?

The later model engines look to be rated at 125hp 180t, which isn't bad. I'd like to bump it up just a bit and get around 240-260t. That shouldn't be too hard to do should it?

Basically, I guess I'm asking does this sound like the engine for my needs.

Thanks for any info.

[Harold Phipps]

Cool question, but I wouldn't call doubling horsepower output, "bumping" it up,,
I'm curious to see the answer from those that know.

[BMB]

Cool question, but I wouldn't call doubling horsepower output, "bumping" it up

I didn't write anything about doubling horsepower.
240-260t = 240 to 260 foot pounds of torque.

[coachgeo]

There was a long run of G wagons powered by the 617. Not sure if they were turboed or not. Had one transplanted in my unimog and it worked more than fine but that's a different animal.

[mr_manny]

you might want to give Luke from 4x4labs a call.

He's a regular on the Rubicon Trail with his om617 powered fj40
(sm420, 4:10 gears and 38" swamper's)

YouTube - Mercedes 0m617 Diesel Conversion in FJ40 - 4x4labs.com

[fte]

Got no complaints with the motor in my Cherokee! It wheels just fine and has more than enough power in low range to break stuff!

[BMB]

Got no complaints with the motor in my Cherokee! It wheels just fine and has more than enough power in low range to break stuff!

What's the specs on your Cherokee, tires, gearing, etc?

[fte]

Originally Posted by BMB

What's the specs on your Cherokee, tires, gearing, etc?

3900lbs,OM617 turbo,700r4 trans, NP231, 411 gears, 30in mud tires, 3in lift, 26mpg mixed. Not too hard core wheeling, it's my DD.

[Fritz_the_german]

Hi guys,

As an info about the OM 617:

The OM 617 starts his live 1974 ! as the biggest Diesel engine in a Mercedes Sedan Modell 240 D 3.0 (W115) as a non turbo engine.

Data:
OM 617 non turbo pre 1979
Bohrung 91 mm, Hub 92,4 mm, Hubraum 3005 cm³
bore: 91 mm stroke 92,4 mm, Capacity 3005 cm

Verdichtung 21 : 1
compation: 21,1:1

Leistung 59 kW (80 PS) bei 4000/min
DIN HP 80 at 4000/min (this is a little more the bhp and near 10 % more than SAE HP)

Drehmoment 172 Nm bei 2400/min
torque: 172 Nm at 2400 / min

Höchstdrehzahl 5100/min
max engine speed: 5100 / min


after August 1979 some changes


Bohrung 90,9 mm, Hub 92,4 mm, Hubraum 2998 cm³
bore: 90,9 mm stroke 92,4 mm, Capacity 2998 cm

Verdichtung 21,5 : 1
compation: 21,1:1

Leistung 65 kW (88 PS) bei 4400/min
DIN HP 88 at 4400/min (this is a little more the bhp and near 10 % more than SAE HP)

Drehmoment unverändert 172 Nm bei 2400/min
torque: same 172 Nm bei 2400/min

Höchstdrehzahl 5100/min
max engine speed: 5100 / min

This "new" engine was available on the German / European market in the G-Model. There it was not know as a “powerhouse”. The engines often dies because of the high weight from the G-models, mostly in the “long 4 door” version. This was was a car engine in a truck !

In the sedan this was a great engine famous for this long live !

The G-model was never available with the OM 617 turbo from Mercedes Benz.


OM 617.952 (turbo) 1982:

Bohrung 90,9 mm, Hub 92,4 mm, Hubraum 2998 cm³
bore: 90,9 mm stroke 92,4 mm, Capacity 2998 cm

Verdichtung 21,5 : 1
compation: 21,5:1

Leistung 92 kW (125 PS) bei 4350/min
DIN HP 125 at 4350/min (this is a little more the bhp and near 10 % more than SAE HP)

Drehmoment 250 Nm bei 2400/min
torque: 250 Nm bei 2400/min

Höchstdrehzahl 5200/min
max engine speed: 5200 / min

This are the data facts.

For my option I would not go for this engine in the US. In Europe you will find parts on the most junkyards for this engine or cheap complete cars. But in the US you must buy from the Mercedes dealership and then it gets expensive.
I personally would go for a Jap Diesel engine or a modern TDI engine from a European manufacture, but I am in Germany and parts are cheap and available for this engines. Ok, Jap parts gets more expensive...

My diesel choice would be from the Jap side, Toyota 3,0 l TD from a Landcruiser, Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero) 2,8l TD or the Land Rover 2,5 TDI from a Discovery. Or the 2,5 TDI from a Audi…

In the US I would go for a Cummins B 3.9L/4BT engine. Four cylinder. The wet weight is 745 pounds (338 kg). In recent years it produced 130 horsepower (97 kW; 132 PS) and 355 pound-feet (481 N•m) of torque. I am shure that this engine is not mutch heavier than a 6 clyliner 4,2l Jeep engine.
This is a powerhouse !
Ok the target car is another question, I a Samu this would not fit…. but in a CJ ?
In the early ‘80s there where CJ available with Diesel engines in Europe, with an Isuzu no Turbo and 65 HP and later with a Renault TD engine 87 HP. Both where crab…

Sorry for my bad english

Manu, the Schnitzelmann

[Dakota542]

Lots of discussion about diesel installs on other forums. I've found the OM617 and the 4bd1t are reasonable in price, but the 4bt & 4bta are expensive.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...u-4BD1T-swaps-!

[meryota]

I put a 79 om617 from a 300sd in my 91 toyota pick with 31"s and stock gears and tranny and its got pretty good power off road i dont do crazy trails or anything but its got lots of power when you need it

[mr_manny]

OMG, found this today :

YouTube - Skünkwerks EM9D 2

talk about eliminating turbo lag

[Marvelicious]

I can't speak specifically to wheeling the motor, as I haven't done it. I have done quite a bit of reading about upgrades for the one in my car, and if I was planning to wheel one, here's what I would do in order of importance

1 Get the motor in good tune and try it as is. Usually these are not running in peak condition when you buy them. They really wake up from a proper valve adjustment for example. I'll throw in some links to look at for other tune up info.
2 Add an intercooler with an electric fan cooling it - after all, we're wheeling and not moving fast, so making sure you have cool air available is a good start, and since its a motor swap anyway, why not do the extra fab. Also, add a pyrometer and maybe a boost gauge - or better yet one of those aircraft combo gauges that has both.
3 Change out the turbo for a modern VNT or VGT type. That way you can get the boost spooled up low and still have it work at the high (for a diesel) redline these motors will allow, then adjust the injection pump to match your new turbo. It should make the torque curve a lot wider and stroger at low RPMS, giving you power where you need it rather than an arbitrary torque number goal. Once again, to do a swap, you've got fab ahead anyway, so why not go the extra mile.

The big limit on power with these is the injection pump, not the turbo. The pump can be boosted a bit with adjustments, but its not like these modern DI motors that you can program to make all the black smoke you want. You can also have a pump built with larger elements, but thats a bit prohibitive on price.

I don't know about your specific torque numbers, but all I can say is that my 300SD, that I have tuned up to the point where it probably makes stock HP (it was a SLUG when I got it) feels a lot faster than the numbers would make you think. My interest in bumping the power comes more from an urge to change gears for better freeway use than any lack of zip now. Low gears from the 55mph days.

If you really want to pursue it, http://www.superturbodiesel.com
and http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...splay.php?f=15
are good places to go.

[Rayjon]

been looking at the same swap...there is alot out there on these motors due to there long life and use... the motors/cars are cheep especially wrecked... If you keep in perspective that this is a auto engine not a truck engine and keep the weight of the vehicle within reason it will work well.. Now it isn't going to pull like a 300hp cummins but for a wheeler under 4000lbs it should work great and you can run it on alot less fuel than a sbc.. And still have good torque.

for those that are negative about the swap seem to base there opinion on a poor running 300d with 2.42 rear end gears and a non lockup 70's vintage automatic with a loose converter....

[bkcruiser]

The OM617 with turbo, while no powerhouse, does get me to and from the trails in the Sierras just fine. I can do 45-50 mph up the mountains. In low range on the trail there are no issues. I have 4 speed manual,4.88's with smaller tires. There aren't too many wagons this big that get 25mpg.

1980 G-Wagon.

[mr_manny]

om617 does the Rubicon Trail

weight of rig when not packed full of gear = 4300lbs with driver...I need to loose some weight

http://youtu.be/dtYQe7ZLoG4

http://youtu.be/R8ud0T49Xt4

[89lc]

I didn't get a chance to wheel my 4runner, but around my house in low low, it built boost instanly for the speed I was going. That is with a toyota cralwer box and t-case.

[mr_manny]

Originally Posted by 89lc

I didn't get a chance to wheel my 4runner, but around my house in low low, it built boost instanly for the speed I was going. That is with a toyota cralwer box and t-case.

maybe these pics will provide some motivation

https://picasaweb.google.com/mrmanny...32995519328738

[goodtimes3]

I wouldn't recommend it, there are plenty of other motors that I would recommend, like the cummins turbo diesel. Don't get me wrong I love my 416, but if it had a cummins turbo diesel it would be a lot better. The stock motor is really loud, it doesn't have a lot of power, it does crawl nicely, but I wouldn't count on it for wheelspin.

[89lc]

Originally Posted by goodtimes3

I wouldn't recommend it, there are plenty of other motors that I would recommend, like the cummins turbo diesel. Don't get me wrong I love my 416, but if it had a cummins turbo diesel it would be a lot better. The stock motor is really loud, it doesn't have a lot of power, it does crawl nicely, but I wouldn't count on it for wheelspin.

Guess it depends on your style of wheeling. In my case, 22re's get plenty of wheel spin with the right gear selection. I don't see why a engine with more torque wouldn't make it better. Plus a cummins weighs a lot more than a om617.

[seventyfive]

this one will only be wheeling lakeshore drive in chicago. 617 should be fine off road.

[mr_manny]

Awesome weekend, camping and wheeling with friends at Deer-valley



Is it me, or has this tail gotten harder over the years...

enjoy the vid:
http://youtu.be/QrSFZ1Qxp-Y?hd=1

[ForcedInduction]

Originally Posted by BMB

I'd like to bump it up just a bit and get around 240-260t. That shouldn't be too hard to do should it?

$1500 for a new injection pump
Plus a few hundred more for a different turbo and installing an intercooler.

[89lc]

How's this?

http://youtu.be/usx3rwbiKy0

[cj8d]

Originally Posted by BMB

I'm considering the OM617turbo for a swap into a CJ and have been trying to get as much info on them as I can.

What I have not seen a lot of is actual trail reports on how they perform and how they are set up for that use.

On another forum there was a poster pretty much dogging the engine for use in a Jeep. They claimed it would not build boost quick enough and would have too narrow of a power range to be useful on the trails. I believe they were basing their statement on driving the OM617s in auto use and did had never driven, ridin, or saw one in a 4WD.

If I do this, the Jeep would most likely be driven to the trails. I would probably use an AX15 or NV3550 and D300 with 4 to 1 low and 35's. Final gearing to be determined. Jeep is about 3700lbs now.

I would be doing medium-ish trails, but might throw in something a little harder from time to time. I go fairly slow most of the time, but do need some wheelspeed too (South East Wheeling).

From information I have found it looks like the engine gets into boost around 1800rpm and likes to cruise about 3000rpm and can spin to about 5000rpm. Does this sound correct?

The later model engines look to be rated at 125hp 180t, which isn't bad. I'd like to bump it up just a bit and get around 240-260t. That shouldn't be too hard to do should it?

Basically, I guess I'm asking does this sound like the engine for my needs.

Thanks for any info.

I love mine. Narrow power band? Compared to what? Mine pulls strong from 2-5,000-RPM. Thats a 3K power band! 4BT doesn't even rev 3K!