Need suspension help

[jwallmuth]

this jeep is for mud riding only, these are pics. of how much flex it has and not much more then what u see in the pics(ran out of jack). I need to make ladder/traction/control/bars/links that will keep the axles under the jeep. I've bent 3 leafs and broke one leaf spring, destroyed one transfer case and a transmission because of this and about 3 drive shafts because the axles wont stay under the jeep. I've tried just ladder bars axle wrap isn't the problem. any ideas or pictures will help...

[jwallmuth]

these are pics. of the links that i've started and realized what i was doing wasn't going to work.

[jwallmuth]

I either need to put the ladder bar on the passenger side and one link on the drivers side. or remove the lower link of the of the ladder bar and put two lower links on either side. I think?

[jwallmuth]

this is what happened the last time leaf spring broke and the jeep tried to go over the front end and shoved the drive shaft into the transfer case.

[Scooter402]

Don't do a ladder bar and a link...They'll fight the piss out of each other. You can do ladder bars, one on each side, or just do one ladder bar. If you want to do links, you can do what monster trucks did back in the day (and I've seen mud racers do it too) with having a single link going from the frame down to ears under the axle...not the side nearest the link like you have in your pic.

I'm sure you'll get a million responses here saying to link and coilover/coil spring/whatever else, but that's entirely up to you.

You can do ladder bars with a shackle at the front end, that'll help you retain some flex...the only problem I've seen with ladder bars or links with leaves is that they do limit flex. But if this is strictly for mud riding (and you mean just going and playing around? Not racing?), you don't need miles of flex like all the other cock crawlers on here.

[Scooter402]

Oh, and another thought -- the stance of your Jeep looks good, but the wheelbase is fighting you on your lift. Your driveshaft angles are probably horrible, so there's nothing you can do about it except make it lower. Looks like you've got tons of fender clearance with those 44s.

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by scooter402

oh, and another thought -- the stance of your jeep looks good, but the wheelbase is fighting you on your lift. Your driveshaft angles are probably horrible, so there's nothing you can do about it except make it lower. Looks like you've got tons of fender clearance with those 44s.

yeah, thanks, i've stretched this thing about as far as u can stretch one on leafs. The drive line angles aren't that bad. I was thinking if i remove the lower tube of the ladder bar and mount it as high as possible, and put a bottom link on either side of the axle and mount it as low as possible it would work kinda like a 3 link.

[Valley Auto]

I believe with leaf springs anything you add cant be fixed because the leafs get shorter and longer as they flex or the suspension will bind. Probably not what you want to hear but if you're running it that hard it might be time to link it for real and just be done.

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by Valley Auto

I believe with leaf springs anything you add cant be fixed because the leafs get shorter and longer as they flex or the suspension will bind. Probably not what you want to hear but if you're running it that hard it might be time to link it for real and just be done.

how do the rock crawlers with leaf springs do it? they have flex but some how keep the the axle and pinion there.

[fatboyf150]

Do this, but put a shackle at the mount at the skid plate. It will allow for the axle to move up and down and front and back without it rolling under torque.

[smewhtguy]

Run that radius arm deal up to a shackle on the frame. It will allow the axle to move front and back as the spring length changes but will stop rotational force. I would design a link setup and ditch the leaf springs but thats just me.

Edit: fuck I took to long typing.

[402yj]

When my YJ was on tons I had a single ladder bar just like in your pic but I put a shackle on the end of it and it worked great.

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by 402yj

When my YJ was on tons I had a single ladder bar just like in your pic but I put a shackle on the end of it and it worked great.

yeah, that's what i had before, then the leaf spring on the other side broke and caused all the damage. I think i'm going to to run two lower links, and one upper link on the front. for the rear, do some kind of parallel bars.

[daryl]

Do one like this, I'd use heims instead of bushings.

[jwallmuth]

that is exactly what i had on the front, but the leaf on the side that didn't have the ladder bar is what broke, and that's what caused the tranfercase and transmission the bust.

[fordmonkey]

You could try putting ladder bars on both sides (no shackles), add a track bar, and let the ladder and track bars completely locate the axle. And then to prevent the springs and bars from fighting each other, put a shackle at the front AND rear of the leaf springs. This forces the springs to support the weight / force and not try to locate the axle.

[fatboyf150]

Originally Posted by fordmonkey

You could try putting ladder bars on both sides (no shackles), add a track bar, and let the ladder and track bars completely locate the axle. And then to prevent the springs and bars from fighting each other, put a shackle at the front AND rear of the leaf springs. This forces the springs to support the weight / force and not try to locate the axle.

If he is going to do all that shit, he would be better off to 4-link it.

[fordmonkey]

Originally Posted by fatboyf150

If he is going to do all that shit, he would be better off to 4-link it.

I don't necessarily disagree... just giving options that would allow him to use the ladder bar he already has built.

[daryl]

Originally Posted by jwallmuth

that is exactly what i had on the front, but the leaf on the side that didn't have the ladder bar is what broke, and that's what caused the tranfercase and transmission the bust.

My bad, I missed the part where you said "axle wrap isn't the problem".

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by fordmonkey

you could try putting ladder bars on both sides (no shackles), add a track bar, and let the ladder and track bars completely locate the axle. And then to prevent the springs and bars from fighting each other, put a shackle at the front and rear of the leaf springs. This forces the springs to support the weight / force and not try to locate the axle.

ladder bars on both sides won't work, it won't let the axle articulate at all, only go up and down. I think a lower link on each side(at the same angle as the leafs) and one top link(at the same angle as the leafs) will work. I will just have to mock it up and see. Just trying to figure out how long to make the top link. And if i could afford coil/over shocks i would go that route.

[fatboyf150]

Originally Posted by jwallmuth

ladder bars on both sides won't work, it won't let the axle articulate at all, only go up and down. I think a lower link on each side(at the same angle as the leafs) and one top link(at the same angle as the leafs) will work. I will just have to mock it up and see. Just trying to figure out how long to make the top link. And if i could afford coil/over shocks i would go that route.

It's time for a one link.


READ

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ight=360+joint

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ighlight=1link

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by fatboyf150

it's time for a one link.


Read

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ight=360+joint

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ighlight=1link

no, that wouldn't work. That would act like a big shovel in the mud.

[402yj]

Originally Posted by jwallmuth

ladder bars on both sides won't work, it won't let the axle articulate at all, only go up and down. I think a lower link on each side(at the same angle as the leafs) and one top link(at the same angle as the leafs) will work. I will just have to mock it up and see. Just trying to figure out how long to make the top link. And if i could afford coil/over shocks i would go that route.

This is what I'm doing with my rockwells.
I should be finished with the links next week. You’re more than welcome to come by and have a look, hell I could always use a second opinion.
I'll PM you my number.

[jwallmuth]

Originally Posted by 402yj

This is what I'm doing with my rockwells.
I should be finished with the links next week. You’re more than welcome to come by and have a look, hell I could always use a second opinion.
I'll PM you my number.

I know right, I've seen a lot of people put links on leafs (for mud riding) and they work just fine, we don't need that much articulation as rock crawlers or other offroad trucks, just something to keep the axles from wrapping and from coming out from under the vehicle. cause when got the pedal to the metal and u hit a rut, u better be holding on!

[TxFullSize]

Shackle reversal on front will fix your problems. When your axle hits the ruts at any rate of speed the axle wants to fold under the jeep thus making the main leaf to bend/break. Mount the front of the spring with shackle in rear and the shackles will absorb the abuse and front mount will keep axle from moving rearward.