Real mud tech question - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

cj5.5 · 01-07-2009, 01:53 PM

I figure WTF. I'll go...
Auto vs Manual?
I'm not talking big HP mud drag rig, but low buck, run whatcha brung bogger. No big $$$ powerglides, high stall set ups, just cheap, available drivetrains.
So if you were putting a rig together, say a fullsize on 36" to 38" rubber, what would you run?

Big79'Terry · 01-07-2009, 01:59 PM

Just depends on what yer' used to. Lots of guys love the juice trannys cuz you dont have to get out of the throttle to shift. My Big B' has 4 spd & I go pretty much wherever I want on 42's & 4.56 w/429 on locked up tons.

TEX · 01-07-2009, 02:00 PM

For a stock class or play truck, you can get away with a manual in deep mud. You'll get killed on any kind of mud "drag" event though unless the track is REAL short.

big giant head · 01-07-2009, 02:12 PM

I agree with the manual, but I really like the auto in my F-350 because the 460 just has the bottomend to spin them all day long.

I also think that certian people shouldnt have a stick because of the damage that they do to their rigs when they get stuck. I have seen more drive shafts and axles go due to the "reverse dump clutch, grind first dump clutch, reverse dump clutch and so on" with out ever lifting the skinny pedal. Its not the trucks fault I know but a standard is right for some people and not others.

But on the flipside, Having a manual is good if you kill your starter because you can drag it in gear to roll start it. Any thing is better than being towed out of the woods.

JoshTurner · 01-07-2009, 05:13 PM

My thoughts on it are that you want all the wheel speed you can get & keep that momentum...I think no matter how fast you can push in that clutch & shift your loosing that much wheelspeed..Its like shifting into nutral...

This is just my opinion...

mgmorrison · 01-07-2009, 07:02 PM

Manual, it will still work when the muddy water gets in it, the auto won't.

btree · 01-07-2009, 07:19 PM

deff a manual for the gearing

82F100SWB · 01-07-2009, 08:35 PM

I have owned 2 automatics in the last 12 years, neither one was registered, or even driven by me... I've always driven stick, learned to drive on a manual,was driving for 5 years before I touched an automatic. For a highway vehicle, I refuse to have it any other way.
For my wheeling pig, I think I may be switching over to an auto, I have no issues shifting it in the pit(don't even bother with the clutch) BUT, my 2 big issues are A) I haven't found a clutch that will handle a dump at more than 1500 rpm without spending a fortune, and B) I somehow always manage to end up packing a pressure plate full of mud at least once a season... I have clutch R&R down to 4 hours in the field with no jacks and hand tools now though....

83kingcab · 01-07-2009, 08:44 PM

since my auto got hot and burnt my first truck to the ground i will only drive sticks

dustydegraff · 01-07-2009, 09:03 PM

for just cheap run what ya brung stock class definitly an auto.

1tonstepside · 01-07-2009, 09:06 PM

Auto always works best in the mud that I've seen. Manuals have there place but deep mud/water will just burn up the clutch and the loss of momentum hurts when shifting. Of course you need the proper cooling for an auto not to have there own problems.

KennyTJ · 01-07-2009, 09:20 PM

Autos are great if you can keep them water tight and run the vent to the top of the cab as high as you can get it. The stick has no vent but the clutch plates can get packed in thick bog and then the clutch will slip unill it burns out all the goo.

83kingcab · 01-07-2009, 09:30 PM

my bellhousing is fully sealed to keep the mud and sticks out

m1a1abram · 01-08-2009, 06:08 AM

I prefer an auto, if you start to loose wheel speed you can down shift, unless you are already in first gear

DECO · 01-08-2009, 06:34 AM

We mostley run all 4speeds down hear usauly just hit in the gear you know your truck can handel.

TEX · 01-08-2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshTurner

My thoughts on it are that you want all the wheel speed you can get & keep that momentum...I think no matter how fast you can push in that clutch & shift your loosing that much wheelspeed..Its like shifting into nutral...

This is just my opinion...

Yeah, there's no shifting with a stick. You pick a gear & live with it. I ran a manual for years & as long as the track was VERY deep and/or really short, it was "okay". I'm much happier with an auto though.

TEX

cj5.5 · 01-08-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Yeah, there's no shifting with a stick. You pick a gear & live with it. I ran a manual for years & as long as the track was VERY deep and/or really short, it was "okay". I'm much happier with an auto though.

TEX

I see your point. I'm just not sure if for fun bogs, where who wins doesn't really matter, or isn't even counted, is the mechanical complexity (cooling, water, etc) and power loss of the torque converter, worth it?
I've gotten pretty good at picking gears for a particular run, and can bang the 3-2 shift without losing all momentum. Not to mention, with a stock 360, I don't have much power to spare.

cj5 buggy · 01-08-2009, 01:19 PM

i'm on the auto side here. been into to many situation when the stick just got me nowhere...

Proeliator · 01-08-2009, 01:36 PM

Personal preference is for a manual, for many solid reasons. However, if you are into racing than an auto is the way to go.

deranged1 · 01-08-2009, 01:39 PM

You don't see hardly any manuals at all in actual mud racing. Bogging you see the most, but a LOT of the actual racers are running a 'glide. That's what I run.

kitimatdude · 01-08-2009, 01:56 PM

I have run manual and then auto in my blazer. I would not go back to manual. As soon as you touch the clutch your wheels stop in deep mud.

cool_racer · 01-08-2009, 02:21 PM

auto w/ maunal valve body

but auto for sure, no matter how fast you shift you cant keep the tires spinning, and if you had to go back a gear after you shifted youd be done

Kenny714 · 01-08-2009, 03:05 PM

Another vote for the auto. 4 Low in 1st gear for the deep bogs. There is always more if you need it.

85gmac · 01-09-2009, 07:42 AM

you should make this into a pole= manual or auto.

i vote auto.

Big Murph · 01-09-2009, 08:06 AM

4 low and third gear. Dump the clutch...

...thats how I roll...

Edit: and I don't shift either...

01-07-2009, 01:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
cj5.5 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Member # 96278 Location: Beside the point Posts: 522	Real mud tech question I figure WTF. I'll go... Auto vs Manual? I'm not talking big HP mud drag rig, but low buck, run whatcha brung bogger. No big $$$ powerglides, high stall set ups, just cheap, available drivetrains. So if you were putting a rig together, say a fullsize on 36" to 38" rubber, what would you run?

01-07-2009, 01:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Big79'Terry FOMOCO MOFO Join Date: Dec 2005 Member # 63730 Location: Pacific N.W. Posts: 1,011	shift or no shift Just depends on what yer' used to. Lots of guys love the juice trannys cuz you dont have to get out of the throttle to shift. My Big B' has 4 spd & I go pretty much wherever I want on 42's & 4.56 w/429 on locked up tons.

01-07-2009, 02:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
TEX Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Member # 603 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 14,194	For a stock class or play truck, you can get away with a manual in deep mud. You'll get killed on any kind of mud "drag" event though unless the track is REAL short. __________________ www.probog.com Thanks to: www.heiseroil.com Extreme Performance www.kmelectronics.com Bear Creek Auto Recyclers www.svrehorsepower.com

01-07-2009, 02:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
big giant head Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Member # 105299 Location: Nova Scotia,Canada Posts: 321	I agree with the manual, but I really like the auto in my F-350 because the 460 just has the bottomend to spin them all day long. I also think that certian people shouldnt have a stick because of the damage that they do to their rigs when they get stuck. I have seen more drive shafts and axles go due to the "reverse dump clutch, grind first dump clutch, reverse dump clutch and so on" with out ever lifting the skinny pedal. Its not the trucks fault I know but a standard is right for some people and not others. But on the flipside, Having a manual is good if you kill your starter because you can drag it in gear to roll start it. Any thing is better than being towed out of the woods. __________________ Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.

01-07-2009, 08:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
82F100SWB Fawkin Fordhead Join Date: Nov 2002 Member # 15263 Location: Winterpeg, Canada Posts: 2,048	I have owned 2 automatics in the last 12 years, neither one was registered, or even driven by me... I've always driven stick, learned to drive on a manual,was driving for 5 years before I touched an automatic. For a highway vehicle, I refuse to have it any other way. For my wheeling pig, I think I may be switching over to an auto, I have no issues shifting it in the pit(don't even bother with the clutch) BUT, my 2 big issues are A) I haven't found a clutch that will handle a dump at more than 1500 rpm without spending a fortune, and B) I somehow always manage to end up packing a pressure plate full of mud at least once a season... I have clutch R&R down to 4 hours in the field with no jacks and hand tools now though.... __________________ 96 F350 XL CC PSD/5 speed 4x4... New Tow pig in the making 96 F250 XLT Ex Cab PSD/5 speed 4x4... DD/Tow Pig 92 W250 LE, CTD/5 speed 4x4, tow pig/DD/snow pushin pig 86 F250... 460/T19/1345/D60/welded 10.25, 44 Boggers, reg cab, some junk... Build

01-07-2009, 05:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
JoshTurner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Member # 56006 Posts: 2,111	My thoughts on it are that you want all the wheel speed you can get & keep that momentum...I think no matter how fast you can push in that clutch & shift your loosing that much wheelspeed..Its like shifting into nutral... This is just my opinion...

01-07-2009, 07:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
mgmorrison Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Member # 16282 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 165	Manual, it will still work when the muddy water gets in it, the auto won't.

01-07-2009, 07:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
btree Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Member # 126678 Posts: 2	deff a manual for the gearing

01-07-2009, 08:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
83kingcab Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Member # 103250 Location: milton-freewater, oregon Posts: 120	since my auto got hot and burnt my first truck to the ground i will only drive sticks

01-07-2009, 09:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
dustydegraff Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Member # 126863 Location: missouri Posts: 6	for just cheap run what ya brung stock class definitly an auto. __________________ www.scotts4x4.com www.xmro.net www.outlawmud.com www.ddayadventurepark.com

01-07-2009, 09:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
1tonstepside Granite Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Member # 21031 Location: oregon coast Posts: 545	Auto always works best in the mud that I've seen. Manuals have there place but deep mud/water will just burn up the clutch and the loss of momentum hurts when shifting. Of course you need the proper cooling for an auto not to have there own problems. __________________ 1989 chevy crew on 44 boggers LY6 6.0L 400 205 Rocks

01-07-2009, 09:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
KennyTJ Wheeler Join Date: Sep 2007 Member # 100284 Location: Lebanon, Oh Posts: 340	Autos are great if you can keep them water tight and run the vent to the top of the cab as high as you can get it. The stick has no vent but the clutch plates can get packed in thick bog and then the clutch will slip unill it burns out all the goo. __________________ Silver '06 'X' "The Pirate Boat!"

01-07-2009, 09:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
83kingcab Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Member # 103250 Location: milton-freewater, oregon Posts: 120	my bellhousing is fully sealed to keep the mud and sticks out

01-08-2009, 06:08 AM	#14 (permalink)
m1a1abram Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Member # 125525 Posts: 13	I prefer an auto, if you start to loose wheel speed you can down shift, unless you are already in first gear

01-08-2009, 06:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
DECO Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Member # 110057 Location: n.s canada Posts: 22	We mostley run all 4speeds down hear usauly just hit in the gear you know your truck can handel.

01-08-2009, 01:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
cj5 buggy Semper Fi Join Date: Aug 2004 Member # 34606 Location: Hardeeville, SC Posts: 1,082	i'm on the auto side here. been into to many situation when the stick just got me nowhere... __________________ Frank 49, 55, 57, 58, 75, 80, 93, 02, 07, and still growing check out our 68 charger build http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...7&highlight=68

01-08-2009, 01:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
Proeliator Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 12042 Location: a den of iniquity Posts: 7,065	Personal preference is for a manual, for many solid reasons. However, if you are into racing than an auto is the way to go. __________________ [QUOTE=94stepsideford;7266691]Seth is scarier than you though. He looks like he would kill and eat a baby with his bare hands.[/QUOTE] '73 F250, 533 on N2o, 35spln chromo Superior/CTM D60/D70, twinsticked 205, hydro-assist, f&r lockers, HAD drivelines, 46" Titan R1s. Vid: [url]http://youtu.be/KaL-IsCWrrI[/url] [url]http://youtu.be/l9cuRoEfCn0[/url] Last edited by Proeliator; 01-08-2009 at 01:46 PM. Reason: I r retard

01-08-2009, 01:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
deranged1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Member # 55817 Location: Lake Ozark, Missouri Posts: 47	You don't see hardly any manuals at all in actual mud racing. Bogging you see the most, but a LOT of the actual racers are running a 'glide. That's what I run.

01-08-2009, 01:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
kitimatdude Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Member # 88672 Location: Ashcroft BC Posts: 635	I have run manual and then auto in my blazer. I would not go back to manual. As soon as you touch the clutch your wheels stop in deep mud. __________________ A... truck... kinda ... with stuff in it...

01-08-2009, 02:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
cool_racer Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Member # 65969 Location: jarvisburg, NC Posts: 104	auto w/ maunal valve body but auto for sure, no matter how fast you shift you cant keep the tires spinning, and if you had to go back a gear after you shifted youd be done __________________ -2001 f-350psd,-85 s10 blazer-sbc, 3/4t axles-74 Ford crew cab-85 yota- 63"'s, boggers

01-08-2009, 03:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
Kenny714 Wheeler Join Date: Aug 2004 Member # 34803 Location: Southern New Jersey Posts: 331	Another vote for the auto. 4 Low in 1st gear for the deep bogs. There is always more if you need it.

01-09-2009, 07:42 AM	#24 (permalink)
85gmac Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Member # 65863 Posts: 27	you should make this into a pole= manual or auto. i vote auto.

01-09-2009, 08:06 AM	#25 (permalink)
Big Murph Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 38055 Location: The Republic Posts: 987	4 low and third gear. Dump the clutch... ...thats how I roll... Edit: and I don't shift either... __________________ Texas, It's still America down here... Last edited by Big Murph; 01-09-2009 at 11:05 AM.

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