What truck to start with?

[406 YJ]

OK...There is something telling me it's time to build a mud truck. I found a 79 F250 4wd but the guy keeps going up on the amount of money he wants for it. Its one price if he pulls the motor and another if he keeps the 351 in there which isn't my first choice. I'm not stuck on Ford. What is something I should be looking for? I want to start with something that has a good base. I'd like to have something with a 205 case and a big block. I do have a ford 60 front and a 14 bolt rear I'm sitting on but if I could find a chevy with a 60 in it already I would just sit on the axles I have for the next project. What years to people suggest and why? If I knew what kind/model I was after I know with a little time I could find one but I don't know where to start? Help me out please!!!!!


Todd

[unimog]

Get a Unimog! I kick ass at the mud bogs with my 78' 406 with a 20 speed and 49's. No welding, cutting or modifying. Just buy some giant tires, bolt em on and kick ass. Even the old 404.1 gasser will go like crazy. Just my biased opinion. Oh, and you don't break shit on a Unimog if it's kept stock. Portal axles, lockers front and rear and everything is way over built. Check them out http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/

[Elvis38]

I would get a Chevy. Just because damn near everything is interchangeable between them. You have axles already pick what ever year you want 50's or a 60's would be.

But realisticly 73-87 would be your best bet.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by unimog

Get a Unimog! I kick ass at the mud bogs with my 78' 406 with a 20 speed and 49's. No welding, cutting or modifying. Just buy some giant tires, bolt em on and kick ass. Even the old 404.1 gasser will go like crazy. Just my biased opinion. Oh, and you don't break shit on a Unimog if it's kept stock. Portal axles, lockers front and rear and everything is way over built. Check them out http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/

Unimog axles are specifically outlawed in many of the lower & mid-level classes around here


What are you planning to do with this truck, just play or compete?

[the_white_shadow]

First generation toyota truck with 37's and a high revving V8. Super light and super fast. Just my $0.02. Oh and they look cool.

[bigben75ford]

any yota with a SAS, big tires and big motor!

[unimog]

Originally Posted by TEX

Unimog axles are specifically outlawed in many of the lower & mid-level classes around here


What are you planning to do with this truck, just play or compete?

They are such bad ass rigs there outlawed, sounds like a bunch of woosey welder- fab dudes getting tired of being beat by a stock rig.

[cslimfu]

no, i think they are getting tired of goin to sleep as youre uni crawls at 1/2 mph making no noise and not throwing any mud. youre saposed to be exciting in a mud contest. no one would show up for any motor sport if they all had stock motors and really quiet exhaust systems.

[1982PrairiePounder]

Get a light truck, something like a Toyota or Suzuki. They cheap, easy to modify and if you cant live with 4 squirrels of power just throw in a V8 for good measure.

[406 YJ]

I am all about the mud slinging part!! I'm already doing a build on a crawler on Rockwells and 49's etc. So this time I want something that will flat get with it.

big block or no Big block?

3/4 or 1 ton?

Gas or Diesel?

I'm wanting an Auto. Is that what most run?

How many people run their dana 44's fronts?

Is it a must to have 1 tons?

What gear ratio/tire size are most going with?

I want to thank everyone for their help. You only get one shot to pick the right truck to start on.

[1982PrairiePounder]

Ya doesnt matter which big or small block, I guess small blocks are cheaper to build. I think some people dont wheel diesels is because of the fact they dont rev as high, and they expensive when they go boom. Another good rig would be a fullsize Ford bronco 78/79 or Chevy Blazer 73-91, they somewhat light in stock trim and are already packing a V8.

[406 YJ]

Edited my post above looking for your answers. Thanks! I"m itching to get something started quick!!

big block or no Big block?

3/4 or 1 ton?

Gas or Diesel?

I'm wanting an Auto. Is that what most run?

How many people run their dana 44's fronts?

Is it a must to have 1 tons?

What gear ratio/tire size are most going with?

[1982PrairiePounder]

All righty then I've give you my .02. For motor selection I think it depends on how you gonna use the truck and which tire size and gear ratio you plan to use. Small or big block doesnt matter alot because both motors can be built very powerful, but big blocks are more pricey to build. A big torque motor (diesel or big block) will have no problem spinning a 38" or larger tire with a gear ratio around 4.56. Most mud trucks run gas because again they cheap, lighter than diesels and make more than enough power. 3/4 or 1 Ton doesnt matter a whole lot which you choose, both are heavy, the 1 ton will probably have a better front axle (D60) if you've found the right truck, but the 1 ton will cost you ground clearence. Most of the guys in my area auto trans because they faster shifting and the driver can focus more on driving, but standards are more durable so its personal perfence. I've noticed alot of guys running 4.10s with 33s,35s,etc and also 4.56s with 38" and up tires. Hope this helps.

[cslimfu]

you can never have too much power, just not strong enough parts behind the power.the problem with diesels is that you have to wait for the turbo. unless you spend decent money on twins and a good fuel and exhaust system.yes big blocks CAN be more money than smalls but, dollar for dollar you end up with a motor that is cranking all its got vs a motor working at 65% putting out the same or better power and can be rebuilt later. yes i think bigger is better. do some research and you will find the weight difference between small and big block really isnt that much(150 lbs) or so.

[lockedupLJ]

Todd,
I'd say go with an 87-91 K30 or ANY big block 1 ton truck. Weld it up fr/rr, lift it a little and throw some 47" LTB's on it. To me it's the ultimate "cheap" mud truck with plenty of power in stock form. You'de definately need some Chromo shafts for the front.

On the trans., I guess thats just a personal preference. Me, I run a 4 speed in the mud, I know how I get and an auto just won't hold up underr me rocking it back and forth and never letting the RPM's settle down. I can easily replace a clutch by myself, but I'm no good at rebuilding automatics. Just my .02.

[locogringo]

i say its got to be chevy. so many parts available. and a chevy 350 is by far the best motor, and you can pull more power out of a SBC 350 than a BB 454. i agree with elvis- 73-87 kick ass. they look good, shits cheap, and you can put anything on it that you like.

i wanted a big block in my build just to say i have one. but after looking at it, SBC 350 was the better choice for me. many BB are externally balanced so if you push em too much they shake like a flea covered dog with a nervous twitch. if you really want power bore a 350, put a cam in it, headers, intake, ect. but that can be expensive.

[cslimfu]

yeah, small block chevys are the answer. thats why top fuel uses them and monster trucks too. sorry a small block chevy can produce alot of power but, there is no replacement for displacement. i would like to see a small block make 1500 hp and still be half way reliable. so what motor is capeable of that,thats right, a big block. sorry bout youre luck having to just make do with a small block. i know to almost all of us money is a huge issue. and if it wasent we would all have800cubic inches and 7500 horsepower. but to say a small block will make more power than a big block is just plain ignorant.

[82F100SWB]

Get a 3/4 or 1 ton, preferably a 1 ton with a 60 under the nose, with a big block and a 3 speed auto; any of the big three will do, weld both ends, lift/trim as required/dedicated by the rules to fit the tire size for the class you want to run, spice with whatever method of improving performance you wish, and go have fun.
Really a pretty simple formula, and old BB beaters aren't that hard to find...
If where you're running has an engine swap rule, and you're looking to run a Ford, the 460 never came factory in a 4x4 before 83. Being you already have a Ford 60, an 83-87 F250(88< = EFI) or 83-85 F350 with TTB under the nose would be just as good a base as a solid axle rig.
I piss off more than a few guys running 70's Fords with my 86 thanks to that rule at one of the places I race, I can run pro-stock, but, because they are running the same engine, they have to run Mod.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by 406 YJ

Edited my post above looking for your answers. Thanks! I"m itching to get something started quick!!

big block or no Big block?

3/4 or 1 ton?

Gas or Diesel?

I'm wanting an Auto. Is that what most run?

How many people run their dana 44's fronts?

Is it a must to have 1 tons?

What gear ratio/tire size are most going with?

WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO WITH THE TRUCK?

Just play, or compete? There are TONS of competition bog events in Kansas and almost everyone I know who even has just a "play" truck will enter the occasional bog. So far, the only advice I can give is to stay the eff away from diesels. Tell me more about your goals & ~ tire size you want and I can help you much, much, much more

[bigreen]

Yota body/frame. Chevy everything else.

[406 YJ]

Originally Posted by TEX

WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO WITH THE TRUCK?

Just play, or compete? There are TONS of competition bog events in Kansas and almost everyone I know who even has just a "play" truck will enter the occasional bog. So far, the only advice I can give is to stay the eff away from diesels. Tell me more about your goals & ~ tire size you want and I can help you much, much, much more

I have a bad habit of starting a build doing something mild and ending up taking it over the top. Example:

I bought this jeep less than a year ago. My plans where to put it on tons with a 350, 700r and a mild stretch. Well.......Now it is sitting on 49's with front and rear steer rockwells, Injected 496 vortec, narrowed frame, etc.
When I got it.

Now.



So it's hard for me to say where it will end up. But I wanted to start with a good base. A solid rig that I didn't have to go out and do a motor swap, axle swap etc. I have enough building going on with other projects at this point. Just looking for a good base to start with

[TEX]

If you're going to start off with little tires, and don't want to swap engines right away, go with an early Bronco with a 302 or a '72-'75 CJ5 or CJ6 with a 304.

For up to 38.5's, '78 or '79 Bronco would be the best choice, or a Blazer/Jimmy with a swapped in 9" rear.


There's no need for 1-ton stuff. If you want to go to BIG tires, you'll want to keep the 38.5's up front with the 1/2 ton frontend and beef the hell out of the 9" for 44" rubber. Once you get to the kind of HP level needed to run a 44" class, your rear tires will be doing 95% of the work anyway, so there's no need for giant front tires and the weight handicap that comes with them.


If you want to start from scratch with a serious build in mind from the very start, build off a Toyota or Jeep frame & body as they're much lighter than full-size stuff. Dunno 'bout Ranger frames, but S-10 frames are almost as heavy as fullsize stuff, so they're not a real good choice IMO.

TEX

[unimog]

Originally Posted by cslimfu

no, i think they are getting tired of goin to sleep as youre uni crawls at 1/2 mph making no noise and not throwing any mud. youre saposed to be exciting in a mud contest. no one would show up for any motor sport if they all had stock motors and really quiet exhaust systems.

So, why are Unimog axles discriminated against. A Unimog axled big block mud machine will make plenty of noise and speed. Also in the few mud bogs I have run with my 406 Unimog People crowded the sidelines to watch the Unimog kick ass. I can remember one that people were running from the parking lot to see me run. A big 11,000lb diesel machine spins the tires and makes plenty of noise. Now, if your looking for speed, no the stock Unimogs are not fast, but as stated before, a Unimog axled V8 will go better than the same machine with regular axles every time. Something to do with 7 more inches of clearance and with 406 axles they will not break. Although broken shit is pretty fun also. Everybody like carnage. So put those big mud tires on your Dana 60's and carry a spare front axle with you as some of the trucks I ride with do. They treat changing an axle out on the trail like putting on a spare tire.
Now, lets get real. The reason Unimog axles are outlawed is because they are almost impossible to beat in a mud bog, almost cheating. The people making the rules don't like to loose to some yahoo with a set of Unimog axles. I have been refused to run in truck pulls for no other reason than the Unimog will just kill the other trucks and the guys running the show want to win. I even got a third place trophy once because no one would hook up to me. I shamed them into giving it to me after the rules were read and the two winners refused to hook to the Unimog, even just for fun. I asked the top two winners if I could hook up to both at once, no way. It is just a bunch of people who hate to loose.
So if you want a mud machine without all the fabbing and busted shit get a Unimog. If you like fixing broken stuff and spending time modifying things get a kit truck. I can see how building a truck can be a very rewarding experience also.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by unimog

So, why are Unimog axles discriminated against.

The high clearance creates a competitive advantage - one that others could utilize if not for the rarity & expense of the 'mog axle swap.

It's just like not allowing 44" tires in a 36.5" class or not permitting engine swaps in "Street Stock".

[cj5.5]

Dude, enough with the Unimog. They're cool. We know.
I bet if I showed up at any of those events with a skidder I'd be banned too. And I'd kick your ass in a tug of war.