How to break a D44 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > Mud
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
How to break a D44

I know what everyone is gonna say, but im getting 37x13.5 on my 05 rubi (dana44's) i have factory lockers front and rear and im regeared to 4.88. Well i only really mud and some trails, but in south FL theres only mud. So i know that the d44's will hold with the 37's, but i know they can break with the 37's. I would much rather prefer to NOT break my axles, so does anyone have any tips on how to not completely baby my jeep once i get my new wheels, but not be up shits creek and break them?

I've been told by a ton of people they will work fine, just don't be stupid. But i've been told that my jeep will fall into pieces if i wheel it with 37's haha. (Not literally but thats how they made it sound)

When i mud u usually do either 4hi or 4lo and locked....when im starting to get stuck i give it a little turn left and right to try and get outta the ruts. im never to hard on the skinny pedal either.


Imput...advice...
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 02:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
cj5 buggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Member # 34606
Location: Hardeeville, SC
Posts: 1,115
Send a message via Yahoo to cj5 buggy
i ran 38.5 in south fl for years with a healthy 383... keep up the maintenance on your axles and you'll be fine.
__________________
For the best deals on 8 lug disc brakes click here--> [url]www.lugnut4x4.com[/url]
cj5 buggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-29-2009, 03:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
HammerdownJustin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Member # 106812
Location: Bridgeport,Tx
Posts: 538
Just dont bounce the fawker on full throttle and if you do get bound up in some roots back up or get strapped out.
HammerdownJustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 03:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
TEX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Member # 603
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 14,232
My main concern would be that the 37" Boggers just aren't a particularly good mud tire given how shallow the tread is. I'd much rather have a 38.5X11, 35X10.50, or even Q78 TSL's or Buckshots in Q78 or R85.
__________________
www.probog.com
Thanks to:
www.heiseroil.com
Extreme Performance
www.kmelectronics.com
Bear Creek Auto Recyclers
www.svrehorsepower.com
TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX View Post
My main concern would be that the 37" Boggers just aren't a particularly good mud tire given how shallow the tread is. I'd much rather have a 38.5X11, 35X10.50, or even Q78 TSL's or Buckshots in Q78 or R85.


im not going to run boggers, i'll be running mud grapplers...for personal experence and everything i've read they are pretty good, just a bit loud haha
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj5 buggy View Post
i ran 38.5 in south fl for years with a healthy 383... keep up the maintenance on your axles and you'll be fine.


you ran 38's on your dana 44's?? with a 383 and no problems? Maintenance on the axles being fluids right?


Is it tru that with jeeps you have to fill the axle up with the fluid and the drive it a bit then fill it up again cause the fluid has to go out to the end of the shafts? i was told this, but never heard anyone else saying it
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Member # 41097
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,328
Send a message via MSN to mustange70
Stay out of WOT when turned all the way one way or the other, that will break shit.

I race with a group that run a 90 chev 3500, complete with ifs and all. Its lifted 6" runs 39.5 boggers and a 500hp bigblock. Now they were gernading cv left right and center, so they dropped the height of the lift to level the cv's out, the turned out the steering stops and guess what, the cv's hold up now just fine, granted once the boots tear they have to replace the cv's, but they have been holding up since the changes:

YouTube - Suchans videos
__________________
90' C350 AKA 4 door 1 ton Bronco
96' Ranger: kings, EMF parts, 800hp SBF

Hardgrass Havoc It'll only be bigger, better, & tougher next year
mustange70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Member # 99055
Posts: 836
negative on the method of gear oil. fill it up till it runs out of the hole, and your good
iwishihad1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 08:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95535
Posts: 2
Remember, Rubicon D44's are not like most D44's. You have a D44 ring and pinion, differential, and tubes, and inner shafts. But, the outers are the same as a D30. Same hubs, unit bearings, u-joint (297), and stub shaft as a D30.

On the fluid filling question, you have inner axle seals where the tubes come out of the pumpkin, the fluid does not "go out to the end of the shafts".

I am pretty sure by maintenance in the above post the poster meant changing fluid when it gets water in it, and keeping good wheel bearings (unit bearings in your case) and ball joints in it, keeping the ball joints greased to purge out mud, check your U-joint clips to make sure they aren't walking out, and grease your u joints to purge out mud if you have greaseable ones. Same goes for drive shaft U joints.

I had an '03 Rubicon with 36x12.5 swamper SX. I ran it in rocks and mud. Other than a tie rod/drag link, I never broke on the rocks locked in 4-Low. I broke alot in deep mud. Usually front axle U-joints and that sometimes boogered up the yoke on the shaft. My swampers and the mud ATE unit bearings and U joint needle bearings. My U-joint failures were always the result of the clips walking out or the needle bearings being ate up from lack of clean lube.

If you run full circle clips (this requires an axle shaft made to take a full circle clip, or machine your stock ones to do so) and tack weld the U joint cap to the axle shaft yoke, you will eliminate the clips walking out. One problem solved. Run U joints with a grease zerk and grease them OFTEN. Grease your ball joints OFTEN. I would also invest in an outer axle seal, like the ones availabe from Superior Axle, etc. You still have crappy unit bearings, that you cannot lube. A rim with close to stock backspacing will reduce leverage on these and help to prolong their life. But this will also mean that a tall tire will rub the control arm at full steering lock.

If you want to beef your stock front axle to the max, look at an article in the March 2009 issue of Four Wheeler magazine. They use a knuckle conversion from Reid Racing for D30 / Rubicon D44 axles that let you run true D44 outers. They stuck an all inclusive front-end kit from Solid Axle in these knuckles: D44 outer stub shafts, Warn premium metal locking hubs, traditionally serviceable D44 spindle/wheel bearings, D44 (760) U joints, caliper brackets, rotors, fasteners, etc. They coupled this with alloy axle shafts and some other choice parts. Probably the strongest D30 or Rubicon D44 you can build with off the shelf parts. The article is about a D30 axle, but remember all the parts from the U joint out are interchangeable for your Rubicon D44.
beantamug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 08:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
78FORD4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member # 125311
Location: Sittin' here doin' my part to make sure the welfare checks cash.
Posts: 155
I have a 78 ford with a dana 44 (stock shafts) and i run 42" iroks. I haven't broken a shaft yet but I do destroy hubs all of the time. (Warn, Milemarker, and Superwinch) I really dont know how the axles have lasted as long has they have, it must be luck b/c I have put the truck on rocks and held the 400ci wide open with the tires smokin. I am always hard on the gas when muddin and climbing hills. But thats on a Ford and not a jeep.

You never know untill you try!
__________________
F-the haters. Build it beef and beat it like a red-headed step-child.
78FORD4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 06:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
TEX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Member # 603
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 14,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave160 View Post
im not going to run boggers, i'll be running mud grapplers...for personal experence and everything i've read they are pretty good, just a bit loud haha
Sorry, that just looked like a "bogger size", so I assumed
__________________
www.probog.com
Thanks to:
www.heiseroil.com
Extreme Performance
www.kmelectronics.com
Bear Creek Auto Recyclers
www.svrehorsepower.com
TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 10:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
cj5 buggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Member # 34606
Location: Hardeeville, SC
Posts: 1,115
Send a message via Yahoo to cj5 buggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave160 View Post
you ran 38's on your dana 44's?? with a 383 and no problems? Maintenance on the axles being fluids right?


Is it tru that with jeeps you have to fill the axle up with the fluid and the drive it a bit then fill it up again cause the fluid has to go out to the end of the shafts? i was told this, but never heard anyone else saying it
by maintenance i mean keep an eye on your u-joints, bearings and etc... every 3rd or 4th time through mudd and water, break it down and make sure the water is staying out. If it's not make it stay out.

never heard offilling the axles up and the tubes... i mean full floaters do it, but i've never seen a 44 need to do it...


this is what happens when you "FAIL" at maintaning your bearings.



__________________
For the best deals on 8 lug disc brakes click here--> [url]www.lugnut4x4.com[/url]
cj5 buggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 04:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Alright now I'm scared shitless again..I have all my work done on my jeep from someone, I don't know how to do anything..so when u say pull ur axle apart to check if the water is staying out...I haven't the first idea how to do that..and I'm worried I might b causeing damage..I had all my shafts knuckles and gears from my front n rear's cryo treated so there suppoested to be stronger..

Wouldn't I want to beef up front and rear not just front? And how much is that kit ur talking about to beef up my front axle with tru d44 knuckles...



Quote:
Originally Posted by beantamug View Post
Remember, Rubicon D44's are not like most D44's. You have a D44 ring and pinion, differential, and tubes, and inner shafts. But, the outers are the same as a D30. Same hubs, unit bearings, u-joint (297), and stub shaft as a D30.

On the fluid filling question, you have inner axle seals where the tubes come out of the pumpkin, the fluid does not "go out to the end of the shafts".

I am pretty sure by maintenance in the above post the poster meant changing fluid when it gets water in it, and keeping good wheel bearings (unit bearings in your case) and ball joints in it, keeping the ball joints greased to purge out mud, check your U-joint clips to make sure they aren't walking out, and grease your u joints to purge out mud if you have greaseable ones. Same goes for drive shaft U joints.

I had an '03 Rubicon with 36x12.5 swamper SX. I ran it in rocks and mud. Other than a tie rod/drag link, I never broke on the rocks locked in 4-Low. I broke alot in deep mud. Usually front axle U-joints and that sometimes boogered up the yoke on the shaft. My swampers and the mud ATE unit bearings and U joint needle bearings. My U-joint failures were always the result of the clips walking out or the needle bearings being ate up from lack of clean lube.

If you run full circle clips (this requires an axle shaft made to take a full circle clip, or machine your stock ones to do so) and tack weld the U joint cap to the axle shaft yoke, you will eliminate the clips walking out. One problem solved. Run U joints with a grease zerk and grease them OFTEN. Grease your ball joints OFTEN. I would also invest in an outer axle seal, like the ones availabe from Superior Axle, etc. You still have crappy unit bearings, that you cannot lube. A rim with close to stock backspacing will reduce leverage on these and help to prolong their life. But this will also mean that a tall tire will rub the control arm at full steering lock.

If you want to beef your stock front axle to the max, look at an article in the March 2009 issue of Four Wheeler magazine. They use a knuckle conversion from Reid Racing for D30 / Rubicon D44 axles that let you run true D44 outers. They stuck an all inclusive front-end kit from Solid Axle in these knuckles: D44 outer stub shafts, Warn premium metal locking hubs, traditionally serviceable D44 spindle/wheel bearings, D44 (760) U joints, caliper brackets, rotors, fasteners, etc. They coupled this with alloy axle shafts and some other choice parts. Probably the strongest D30 or Rubicon D44 you can build with off the shelf parts. The article is about a D30 axle, but remember all the parts from the U joint out are interchangeable for your Rubicon D44.
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 07:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 128238
Posts: 767
Don't get into wheeling and have someone else fix your breakage. That's bullshit you break it grab some tools and start wrenching. Sorry don't mean to be rude but I have a few people around here who bust the shit out of their trucks then bring them to the shop for us to fix. That just rubs me the wrong way...
LegendKiller89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 08:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Bro you shoud love that no? They break shit and you charge them money to fix it when you know exactly how to...you should advise people to break things so you make more money...I live in an appt. were your not even aloud to park your car outside your garage over night(extremely gay i know)...i think i would get evicted if they saw my rear axle chillin next to my jeep...and would you really advise someone that doesn't know what there doing to be taking apart there axles and then somehow be able to safely put it back together? All that would be doing is put my life in danger haha cause i blow at turning wrenches...i love to wheel, but never got taught to fix my own cars, wish i did. But oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendKiller89 View Post
Don't get into wheeling and have someone else fix your breakage. That's bullshit you break it grab some tools and start wrenching. Sorry don't mean to be rude but I have a few people around here who bust the shit out of their trucks then bring them to the shop for us to fix. That just rubs me the wrong way...
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 08:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
TEX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Member # 603
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 14,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendKiller89 View Post
Don't get into wheeling and have someone else fix your breakage. That's bullshit you break it grab some tools and start wrenching. Sorry don't mean to be rude but I have a few people around here who bust the shit out of their trucks then bring them to the shop for us to fix. That just rubs me the wrong way...
Keeping you in business rubs you the wrong way?
__________________
www.probog.com
Thanks to:
www.heiseroil.com
Extreme Performance
www.kmelectronics.com
Bear Creek Auto Recyclers
www.svrehorsepower.com
TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 11:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Grumpy_old_fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20147
Location: Oakland Orygun
Posts: 6,573
Send a message via Yahoo to Grumpy_old_fart
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX View Post
Keeping you in business rubs you the wrong way?
Im willing to bet he gets the trucks covered in shit, and hasnt thought to bring an "ecological fee" into the mix, where you have to dispose of all the excess landfill brought into the shop, after separating it from the grease that inevitably gets involved with it.
__________________
Empathy, apathy, sympathy.
Sympathy is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.
Grumpy_old_fart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 05:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Member # 110605
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave160 View Post
...and would you really advise someone that doesn't know what there doing to be taking apart there axles and then somehow be able to safely put it back together? All that would be doing is put my life in danger haha cause i blow at turning wrenches...i love to wheel, but never got taught to fix my own cars, wish i did. But oh well.
thats the best way to learn. you need to learn how to pull your shit appart and fix it sometime. its not not hard to learn the basics. especially on a rubicon. pullin out a shaft is easy because you have a sealed wheel bearing. if you were out wheelin somewhere and something happened, its good to know how to at least fix basic stuff like alxe joints/u joints
__________________
78 Chevy K30. 496/SM465/SM465/205/D60 Welded/14 Bolt Welded/5.38's/44x18.5 Hawgs
BigOl'Flatbed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 07:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOl'Flatbed View Post
thats the best way to learn. you need to learn how to pull your shit appart and fix it sometime. its not not hard to learn the basics. especially on a rubicon. pullin out a shaft is easy because you have a sealed wheel bearing. if you were out wheelin somewhere and something happened, its good to know how to at least fix basic stuff like alxe joints/u joints


Yeah im all for that, and i agree 100%...once i get another car or jeep or something else to drive then i'll start messing with stuff, but i have school a job that i have to be at and my car being in pieces because i pulled it apart isn't a good excuse hah



I was thinking of doing this, Picking up a set of Boggers in a 33" or maybe 35" and putting them on steelies and when i wheel it, just change out the wheels to the boggers...so its not a 37 and it seams like 37's cause alot of problems off road with axles and what not...and it will save my rockstars from getting scratched up....My question is now is that are boggers really heavy tires? Does this sound stupid?With a 35" bogger can i break stuff as easily as with 37" mud grappler
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 10:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Member # 110605
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 67
ive never ran the mud grapplers so i dont know exactly how heavy they are. but i have run boggers and they arnt much heavier than your average 37. i had 38.5 boggers and they were pretty comparable to the 38.5 tsl sx's. from what ive seen, the grapplers seem to have a pretty tough sidewall and look like they arnt a light tire either. so id say a 35 bogger is comparable to a 35 grappler
__________________
78 Chevy K30. 496/SM465/SM465/205/D60 Welded/14 Bolt Welded/5.38's/44x18.5 Hawgs
BigOl'Flatbed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 05:21 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130586
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOl'Flatbed View Post
ive never ran the mud grapplers so i dont know exactly how heavy they are. but i have run boggers and they arnt much heavier than your average 37. i had 38.5 boggers and they were pretty comparable to the 38.5 tsl sx's. from what ive seen, the grapplers seem to have a pretty tough sidewall and look like they arnt a light tire either. so id say a 35 bogger is comparable to a 35 grappler


Yeah...i've read were they grappler is a "lighter" tire...but im thinking a 35" bogger will put less stress on everything than a 37 would...
dave160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 08:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 128238
Posts: 767
I have enough to keep me in business believe me. But kid's who decide they want to look cool and do stuff to thier truck they have no idea what they are getting into much less don't even know the simple basics is just stupid in my opinion. The same kid's that bring their trucks to my place don't even know how to do oil changes (and No I ain't shittin' ya either). If you can't do in an oil change you shouldn't even consider being in this kind of sport, thats the way I feel. The money is sweet but sometimes you wish these dumbfucks would get a clue. Those are the kids/people I am talking about. I ain't busting the guy's balls that actually wants to learn or knows the basics of mechanics. Not everyone can tear a transfer case apart or rip into gears and shit, and thats cool. But at least know the basics is what I'm trying to say.

Back on topic:
I would do the 35'' bogger. You mentioned maybe buying a set of 33's?? Do you daily drive this thing?
LegendKiller89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Member # 134498
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 36
Send a message via Yahoo to kufd
I have a D30/AMC20 combo, spinning 38.5 TSL/SX for a while now and never broke a thing. No rock here, just mud and muddy trails/ruts. I drive cautiously and never WOT. ****yea, yea, I know its not peoples best way of thinking, I just don't have money, or skills to fab stronger stuff.****
kufd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 05:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Member # 114506
Location: Spencer NY
Posts: 24
I run 35'' boggers offroad and 35'' bighorns on the street with rubiDana 44s. never had an issue yet. I regeared to 513s recently and am slowwly building my jeep to run 37s. wheeling here in the Northwest is different though. everything is mostly low traction stuff so its much harder to break stuff
jeepyfz450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 10:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 96278
Location: Beside the point
Posts: 599
I gotta vouch for the fact that having a mud covered 4x4 dragged to your shop over the weekend and left disabled in front of a bay door by someone you 'wheeled with once and now calls you "buddy" and wants it done quick as a favor and gets offended when you quote it as an actual paying job (to stay in business ) does in fact suck. Just sayin'.
cj5.5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.