mud truck driveshafts

[EarthResin]

Alright guys,

This question is a little strange, but I have been shelling through stock drivshafts like crazy, and it is time to upgrade to something better.

I already know about High Angle Driveline, as well as other stores. They are great places to get driveshafts made, but I find it hard to believe that every mud truck with big tires and big horsepower is getting their driveshafts made through them!

My question is, what is everyone doing to beef up their driveshafts without breaking the bank?

I am running a Double Cardan (CV) at the np205 case for both front and rear, so I will probably need to continue to run that. Otherwise, I am completely open to what works.

I know this is a random question, but we are only halfway through the mudding season, and I am running short on supplies for spare driveshafts!!

Any input is appreciated
Adam

[abig84]

the best way to not break a driveshaft is to have no horsepower.... i never break anything

[mudskipper4x4]

What part of the ds is breaking? If it's the tubing and not the yoke then just sleeve it with some heavier wall tubing?

I built both my front and rear ds, running cv's at the 205tc on both ends and just extended them by using some drill stem that I had. Works great for me.

[Big79'Terry]

Healthy 429 BBF, Detroit (F&R), 42" TSL, 35 SPLINE D-60's (F&R).....1350 YOKES & dual CV DS's.......Yep from Jess @ H.A.D.
What axles are ya' runnin'?? u-bolt or cap @ pinion? 1/2 ton junk is just that.

[EarthResin]

Well Terry, you and I have pretty similar setups, barring the engine (for now). 1978 Bronco, Dana 60 front, 14 bolt rear, 4 link f/r (decent travel, and it cycles fast when romping through the mud), 351m (runs better than most I'm willing to bet), C6, np205, and 44 inch cut TSL's (soon to have 18.4x16.1 Goodyears on the back). There are currently 2 460's laying on the floor, so the horsepower is only going to go up from here.

I have broken pretty much all of it including the following:

1) stock 14 bolt pinion (now has 1350 u-bolt yoke from Jess @ HAD)
2) Several 1310/1350 conversion joints
3) Several 1330/1350 conversion joints
4) Broke the slip yoke at the rear twice (sheared the ears off)
5) Destroyed the CV at the rear t-case output once
6) Sheared the CV centering pin on the front driveshaft twice
7) Several u-joints on the front driveshafts
8) Just broke the ear off of the stock Dana 60 pinion yoke

That list is over the course of roughly 8 events over the last two summers, and I am sure it isn't complete.

So basically, I have pretty much broken all of it at least once. I know it is ignorant to continue repairing the truck with ready-to-break again parts, but I have been able to find lots of really cheap replacements. Problem is, I am running the junk 1/2 ton driveshaft well dry!!!

I figure I am going to have to end up giving Jess a call and having driveshafts and yokes shipped to me, but I am afraid of the cost. It is definitely a quality product, but I called him and priced out changing the entire front end over to 1350 CV (which would include changing yokes at the diff and t-case), and it was going to be right at $900. That means I would have roughly $1800 into making my driveshafts hold up better, because I am a firm believer that anything mechanical can and eventually will break!

I am just curious if anyone has found cheap alternatives to buying high dollar shafts (i.e.-2 1/2 driveshafts, pto shafts, heavy equipment shafts, etc...). There are lots of "not so expensive" trucks running around with heavy ass tires and wheels, and I don't see them breaking driveshafts at nearly the frequency I am.

I definitely know the right way to repair the issue is to have a professional build proper driveshafts for me, but if there is a hillbilly way of getting by better than I do now, it may be worth a shot!

Any input is appreciated.
Adam

[bayouhazard]

Some kind of traction bar may be all you need. Even the best driveshaft will break if the yokes stack up under acceleration....how bout some pics of your setup?

[Proeliator]

The last ds I twisted I replaced with a HAD, and its been fine ever since. However, with the amount of damage you listed I'd have to think axle wrap is also part of your problems.

[EarthResin]

Guys,

I am not going to say axle wrap isn't a possibility (anything can happen), but the truck has a dual-triangulated 4 link on the front and rear. It does have some axle steer to it when articulating to the length of its droop, but other than that, it is a fairly stable link setup.

I think I may be exceeding the max. operating angle of the CV's when at full droop. I have clearanced each and every yoke, slip yoke CV, whatever has been in the truck, but I may still be binding up somehow. Other times it has been from extreme shock load (catching air and landing, then dropping a driveshaft from shearing u-joints).

So, if the best option is to go to HAD driveshafts, how much did you pay and how did they hold up? I would need to go with CV shafts front and rear. Also, big tire/hp guys (Proeliator, that means you!!), did you run 1350 series driveshafts, or did you go with 1410? Jess talked to me about his 42 degree 1410 CV for my truck due to the articulation, big tires, and future hp ideas, but the price difference makes me question whether I would like to go that far.

So, if you are running big hp/tires with HAD driveshafts in the muddy stuff, how much did it cost and how are they holding up?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
Adam

[Proeliator]

Adam, that being the case then you shouldn't be experiencing any axle wrap at all, thanks for the extra info.

I'll admit, I was a little shocked at the price tag you talked about. Granted, I bought my HAD around five years ago but it was closer to five bones, and I did go with the 1410s. I can say that I've beat my setup like a baby backed bitch and its held up great.

I can understand you balking at the price tag, but it sounds like that not only you have a pretty solid setup, you don't hold back from getting it, either. I'd guess if you don't go for it now, you'll end up having to shell out for it later. Or, as like I like to tell anybody in this sport with a serious rig "you can't afford to be cheap". I think you know what I mean.

The only other thought, is that you might be experiencing some bind at full droop and limiting straps could reduce the carnage. Good luck and let us know what route you go.

[EarthResin]

Pro,

Thanks for the reply. Not to doubt Jess's products or anything, but it is just nice to know that a product I would invest pretty decent chunks of change on will be more than ready for what I can throw at it!!

The truck is solid, and once the 18.4's go on the back and the 460 goes in, I am ready for a whole other level of stupid!

Running mud trucks hard and breaking parts goes hand in hand, and you are definitely right about the "you can't afford to be cheap" thing. If I were to count up the amount of junk u-joints and junk stock driveshafts I have purchased in the last 3 months alone, I could probably have a 1350 CV in the front or rear by now!

Well, it sounds like the decision is made. I am going to run one or two more events on what I have (if the driveshafts make it that long!), and then it will be time to give Jess a call.

Thanks for the help.
Adam

[Elvis38]

Got any pics of your setup? I'm a little curious....

[EarthResin]

I'll try to get some pictures by this weekend of the driveshaft angles. I have pictures of the overall truck, but nothing that really depicts driveline angle or full droop/full compression.

To give you an idea though, it is a 1978 Bronco with 1-tons and 4 link f/r. The truck is "lifted" approximately 11 inches if I would have to guess. I think Proeliator hit it on the head though. The driveshafts I am running were never intended for the application they are currently in, and their weakness is showing. Also, when a 44 inch tire is spinning in the air and comes down on ground at a slower ground speed than the tires are turning, something is going to try and give!

I have two options pretty much: Upgrade hardware or alter my driving. I can tell you which one is going to win though!!! I might as well upgrade now before the 460 finds its way into the mix.

Once again, I will try to get pictures up this weekend.

Adam

[Proeliator]

One thing I forgot to mention, that along with the 1410 I opted with the thicker wall for the shaft...cheap insurance and didn't cost much more.

Also, I know I already mentioned the need for limiting straps, but are you by any chance running a divorced transfer case? I ask because you'd be surprised at the amount of movement it can see without additional bracing.

[HAWGWILD]

Are bottoming out your slipyoke?? Thats the kind of carnage I would expect with the slipyoke bottoming.

[EarthResin]

I have the suspension limited using chains (chrome no less!), and I have cycled it to verify the driveshafts don't get in too much of a bind. I have a mated np205 behind the C6, so that shouldn't be a worry.

I am going to go work on the truck this weekend, and I am going to start by removing the springs and cycling the suspension to full compression to verify the slip yokes aren't bottoming out. To be honest, that may be happening with the driveshafts that are in it now. I have changed driveshafts on the fly several times, and I can't be sure they aren't bottoming out right now.

Also, on a side note, HAWGWILD, badass truck man! I was at Brick's with the Bronco, and it was definitely a good time. Would have loved to see that thing give the slough a run for its money!

Thanks
Adam

[RebelRider]

I started by ditching my OEM Ds's from the start. I upgraded all of my yokes to 1410's and had a Ds shop modify stock 2 1/2 ton shafts to fit my K5. I run Rockwells, so my angles are very good also. I did all of this for aroun $300..................................

[iniviate]

Originally Posted by RebelRider

I started by ditching my OEM Ds's from the start. I upgraded all of my yokes to 1410's and had a Ds shop modify stock 2 1/2 ton shafts to fit my K5. I run Rockwells, so my angles are very good also. I did all of this for aroun $300..................................

+1 ....

my transmission to t-case is 1410 on both ends. t-case to axles are 1610's.

[HAWGWILD]

Originally Posted by EarthResin

Also, on a side note, HAWGWILD, badass truck man! I was at Brick's with the Bronco, and it was definitely a good time. Would have loved to see that thing give the slough a run for its money!

Thanks
Adam

Thanks Adam. We had some serious motor issues but we risked blowing it up to crush some cars. If the motor had been straight we would have floated through the Slough (slew?). We will be back and ready next time. Right now the truck is in Bonne Terre at the Redneck Offroad shop getting ready for some upcoming shows.

[onetoncv]

And-

[bigford]

careful with the 1350 Cv's I had a H.A.D. rear shaft made, broke the center pin out of the Cv in my back yard, put in front wheel drive idled to the shed ( about 75 yards ) called and sent it back to H.A.D. and he said I over extended it and would not warrantee it----- this was about the second time I drove it with this CV in there BTW. The CV replaced a single U-joint rear shaft and it had no binding, never broke either. Mine is linked up as well. I ended up getting the 1410 Cv and haven't broken that yet.

[MUD SLUT]

Originally Posted by onetoncv

And-

BEEFY

[chevyforlife502]

I second that

[54 ford]

1410 joints and sch 40 pipe for my drive shafts never bent one or broke a joint

[gotmuddy]

Look under a schoolbus. Mine has a 4 or 5 piece driveshaft and its plain BEEF