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2012 Rubicon Questions

2K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  Beat95YJ 
#1 ·
I'm considering purchasing a 2012 Rubicon. Reasons higher horsepower in the smaller engine (.vs. a swap) and the 5-speed auto.

Lots of folks here change out the stock drive line components for higher quality off-road components, which is something I'm probably going to want.

I've also seen some people recommend buy a 4x2 and then convert it to 4x4 with the upgraded components that you want. I'm wondering if anybody knows how much additional costs this would be?

I'd prefer to buy a used 2012 with the engine / tranny combination that I want, and the upgrades to the drive line & suspension already done. But I've had no luck finding one (too early I think).

Plenty of used Rubicons already upgraded out there, but most seem to either have the stock engine or hemi-swap, and the 4-speed auto tranny. One option here would be to change the engine / tranny on an already modified vehicle.

But I don't know which would be more cost effective. Buy bone stock and upgrade driveline / suspension, or buy already upgraded and swap engine / tranny. Any advice?
 
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#2 ·
What do you plan to do with the thing? A stock rubicon is pretty well equiped for most regular trail runs. It sounds like you have a rather large budget planned, so if you are dead set on a new one, you might as well buy new and get exactly what you want.

Personally, I say that you take your budget, buy a used body (not a 2012) that is rust free and put exactly what you want into it.
 
#3 ·
My plan is to "see the world", one dirt road at a time, pulling a expedition sized (small) trailer. No major rock climbing, just long-distance overland travel basically, but road conditions will vary from pavement to places I'd probably wish I'd never gone. I need to get there and back with as few breakdowns and being stuck as possible. Minimum two passengers and gear, with as many as four.

That's the long term goal, short term is to not waste my time or money wishing I'd upgraded earlier. I'm the kind of owner that wants to do it right the first time.

I'm not dead set on a new Rubicon, actually could care less about "new". But reading what people say they like about the new engine / tranny it's worthy my consideration now, early on. I just don't want to look back and wished I'd gotten something else. It seems to me that the time to make this particular decision is now and not later.

There are some really good deals now on pre-owned rigs already upgraded (about half price or even less if I were to build it now) that would do the job. But none (so far) have the new Pentastar which offers better mileage. Most that I've looked at offer the hemi swap with stock transfer case and stock tranny, with upgraded suspension mods and some cool "must haves" (bumpers, winches, racks, etc.).

The cost to build these pre-owned with desired upgrades is substantial, way higher then they are "worth" on the resale market. When their owners go to sell, they're taking a pretty big hit.

No doubt they'd work for what I have in mind, but I can't decide yet if this is the better way to go or start off with the other engine / tranny offered in the new 2012. If I did, I'd be facing the same substantial upgrade costs as these other owners (assuming all things being equal, same build, etc.).

Evaluating all this comes down to pre-owned / upgraded .vs. new needs upgrades. No doubt the later will be the most expensive (by far).

So the question really is "is it worth it for the changes a stock 2012 offers"?

It's not just a $$ dollar question (for me) either -- it's also a question of "is it that much better" for build quality, performance, features and long term satisfaction? In the long run, I know that's what I'm really after. Cost is what it cost (either way) and this is really a lower consideration then the overall satisfaction question.
 
#4 ·
So the question really is "is it worth it for the changes a stock 2012 offers"?

It's not just a $$ dollar question (for me) either -- it's also a question of "is it that much better" for build quality, performance, features and long term satisfaction? In the long run, I know that's what I'm really after. Cost is what it cost (either way) and this is really a lower consideration then the overall satisfaction question.
Gotcha, that makes sense.

I have no personal experience, but have also heard good things about the new Pentestar suff. Generally, engine technology grows substantially, so it is really appealing on paper.

On the Other Hand, it would sure suck to get burned as an early adopter and end needing to take it in for some bullshit warranty issue within the next few years.

Hopefully somebody more in the know will chime in, until them I am just free bumps for your thread :laughing: :flipoff2:
 
#6 ·
:laughing: why would you buy a newer model for the engine, as implied by the highlighted above, just to swap out to a different engine :confused:
 
#8 ·
I have 2012 Rubicon and love it. That said, I drove a 2009 with GM 6.2 and 6 speed auto that was the Jeep I need! A Company in Las Vegas has a nice swap where all factory options work (cruise control and gauges.)

I'm thinking of getting a fully load 2011 and doing the swap. I want the navigation and blue tooth connectivity as well as all of the creature comforts (heated seats.)
 
#9 ·
If all you are doing is trail riding and camping with no heavy offroading, I'd just leave it close to stock. Use a winch when needed and know your limitations to keep you out of trouble and lots of breakage. "New" doesn't always mean reliable but more often than not, "modified" means less reliable.
 
#10 ·
I appreciate the responses. I've investigate two of the hemi-swap conversions on late model Rubicons and gas mileage is fairly low (highway 15 or less, closer to 13 in reality). Both were professionally done.

I have to take into account the additional weight, and component changes such as larger wheels and tires. No real clear idea what a "stock" swap engine is capable of with my type of driving. Probably less then what the Pentastar seems to offer. And it's a big "unknown" at this time (to me) what mods could be made to the newer engine to improve range or performance.

A 5+ mpg stock engine improvement isn't anything to ignore with the new engines offered (imo), considering what fuel prices will always be doing. But fuel costs / driving range is only one of the considerations. Also have read that the '12 offers a better air conditioning compressor, better interior plastics, etc., while not high on my list, would be appreciated nonetheless.

Provelogear - what mileage did that modified 2009 get?

Anybody else that has a '12 care to chime in? I found another forum with ahem, "excited owners" and soon-to-be owners (units ordered), but they were soccer-mom types it seemed and liked the idea of a gnarly SUV blasting down the highway getting startled looks from passerby's, but had seemingly little experience or knowledge of reliability, modifications or anything other then new-owner blush.

This site seems to have a more real membership / appreciation of trail-ready rigs with the technical knowledge to boot.

I know I would need the following: improved suspension, ground clearance, winch / recovery, roof rack, bumpers (including fuel storage), chassis armor, and so on. Durability and "ability" to make it through would be highly desirable. But I'm not looking for a crawler. Some roads are very bad, but they also offer the greatest sense of adventure (or pictures!). I'd want to be able to go there if that's the direction my day took me.

Due to number of travelers, I've ruled out all two-door models (of everything) and am only focusing on four-door models. Used Rubicons, Land Rovers, 4 Runners, etc., are certainly available, all have limitations (including questionable custom-build quality in some cases). Mods CAN mean "less reliable" in some cases. I'm guilty of this one myself!

The budget (there is no budget) really isn't that important to me (seriously), my philosophy is "get what I want and pay what it costs". I don't waste time (days of my ticking life-clock) worrying about this kind of thing. Just intend to do it right the first time is all so I can then focus on the entire purpose of doing this -- go enjoy myself, get some great stories, pics, adventure and life experiences (with a few of my traveling companions!).
 
#11 ·
Since your going more expedition and less crawler I'd buy a new "12 with things you want and add a few aftermarket parts as you see fit (small lift, winch, etc). Its all factory so I would assume it would be more reliable than a engine swap. Or buy a newer Tacoma if your really worried about reliability.
 
#12 ·
To hell with Tocoma's. They were only worth it back when they were 4cy and straight axled.

And a brand new engine swapped would not be unreliable. It'd be the same as getting one brand new off the assembly line if you take your time and don't take short cuts.
 
#15 ·
a stock, or slightly modded ( 3" lift, 35's, winch, snorkle) will go almost anywhere. Unless you are racing it, or planning on 40's, D60;s there is not any need to pull the engine, just run 5.30 gears. I had an 09, it was a great all purpose rig, 98,000 miles, lots of dual track, beach, rocks, mud, urban, and highway wheeling.

Unfortunately there are no choices in teh drive line from teh factory beyond tcase ratio and front axle. I've heard great things about the 3.6, the 3.8 is a shit sandwich.

Check out jkowners.com/forum its kinda pirate lite, great tech content and resources, or jk-asylum.com/forum.php like jko only full of ass hats.
 
#16 ·
I used to race, so I know the "never too much power" bug, but...

My experience with my '09 has told me that I can break plenty with my current setup, but it has never been the motor. I don't want to think about what I could damage with a Hemi. Plus my rig is currently already 4800 lbs with a steel front bumper, winch, back seats out, and trail gear. Granted, I know only two speeds - full brake and full gas when offroading, so YMMV.

Based on your description of what you want to do, perhaps get the new model based on the gas mileage increase and a little more power. I do wish I had a little more for some hill climbs but that is about the only time it comes into play. Try to resist going too wide on the tires if mileage is a concern and you're taking long trips driving the Jeep. Get some gnarly aggressive tires that aren't too wide. Maybe something like 33x11.5 or so. That'll keep you from having to regear as long as you have 4.10s. The auto tranny will be running the edge of staying in overdrive at highway speeds, so the trailer might make you regear if you go auto.

Well, that is a little stream of thoughts that I had. Hopefully it makes some sense?
 
#17 ·
If you need more power, a Ripp might help. If you run a manual trans it should help put off a regear, as mentioned above the auto will be on the verge of gearing down with upsized tires on the freeway.


If you are looking to gut the rig, drop in a sbc, 4l80. stack, d60's why not start with a YJ/ CJ/ TJ and dump money into a highend head unit for bluetooth and nice interior for heated seats.:shaking: WIll save a ton of cash, meet your needs and likely be more reliable.
 
#18 ·
I decided on the '12 model. The Pentastar and 5-speed auto made the most sense for my chosen application. Went down and ordered one too!

After reading tons of threads here and elsewhere, nobody seemed to regret making the switch from their existing ride to the new model. Some wished they could or had waited until the 2012 came out, and many planned on trading up.

I ordered every option I could think of, but the lowest gearing they offer is 4:10. This may be ok with an automatic, I don't drive fast anyway.

I had gotten TOTALLY frustrated with some of the dealerships I investigated, well, just one in particular (Dave Smith), who couldn't "spare the time" to help me place an order, while promising "5 star service". Supposedly the top seller in the nation no less. Yet nothing transpired.

I did get an email that said "I found your Jeep", but that was it. No description, no build sheet, no price, no color, no options, nothing. I had absolutely NO IDEA if this was a 1966 mail delivery Jeep or one of the models I'd been looking for. My emails went unanswered, so I sent this:

You still have not sent me anything. I'm totally frustrated with you and will not work with you any further. Please put me in contact with a responsible, responsive sales person who is actually interested in selling me a Rubicon.​

I guess your not supposed to challenge the Jeep elite. I was told that "this kind of rudeness will not be tolerated from anyone".

Good grief. My reply:

Rudeness? I have stated the facts as they actually are. The written email history demonstrates this quite adequately.

The only "rudeness" here is your response, which speaks volumes about your integrity and character. I will be notifying your manager shortly with all details of our correspondence.

You did not call me at 10 pm. You and I spoke only once, much earlier in the day a week ago during normal business hours (11:15 am), you promised me exactly what you did not provide, responsible service, five star support, and a available list of Rubicons. You strongly emphasized that I pick a responsible dealer. To this day, I have received absolutely NONE of these things from you, nada, nothing, except the unfulfilled promise that they would all be forthcoming, apparently whenever you got around to it.

You also missed your own advice, the "great deals" are to be had in the month of December, but apparently for a 'selected few' who can somehow fit into your busy schedule. It's now December 20th and I've seen nothing from you.

The fact remains that you apparently have done nothing at all, therefore this is your problem, and it was in your power to fix, but I will not let it rest there. I will now post this entire email exchange online for all to see, because you have now earmarked yourself and your dealership as being highly unprofessional. Dave Smith Motors is not to be considered a responsible, courteous or representative dealer for Jeep in this area. You made great and sweeping claims on how wonderful your dealership is. So far, I've seen nothing whatsoever that represents this, certainly not your professionalism.

I will be around for a very long time in this area. What do you suppose I am going to say when people ask me about my new Jeep? It's staggering that you can be so utterly ignorant of how long these idiotic responses of yours is going to last.​

I then went down an ordered my Jeep from another dealer who had actually tried to assist me. Imagine that! Someone who really wanted to take my money!

I can only hope that this is a 'unique experience' and not common among Jeep dealerships.

Ordering the Jeep turned out to be almost painless then trying to actually buy a vehicle off the lot. Took about twenty minutes and that was that.

Being VERY loathe to deal with auto salesmen (many experiences, but I haven't set foot on a lot in over ten years) I was not looking forward to running their well-understood gauntlet again. But it turned out to be unbelievably easy to just order what I want and walk away. I gave the build specs to the manager, he punched them in and then I told him what I'd pay. He agreed and that was the end of it.

So now I move on to all the things while I wait for the rig. Roof rack, tire carrier, bumpers, winch, a few doodads inside and out, and hopefully a new season of exploring. These guys seem to have most of the stuff I'm looking for: http://www.shrockworks.com/

Not going to do anything with the engine until I understand how well it works with the added weight and intended use. Not interested in going fast, just very, very reliably.

I did give up on the ideas of upgrading a non-Rubicon model, or upgrading an older model. It takes a lot of searching and reading, but I learned that the cost and time is a big factor, plus in the end, you might still dealing with a few things you'd wished you could have swapped out (like the engine for example). It was cheaper to buy the 'foundation' you wanted to 'build on', and also saving a lot of time.

I don't mean to make it such a long post, but this is my first Jeep and probably my last (I only need one), and the experience of 'what to buy', 'where to buy', 'why not upgrade' and the pro's and cons of new .vs. older, and all the decision making and weighing one perceived advantage over another, is probably pretty common to other would-be Jeep owners.

One other thing. My online 'search' encompassed many hours of looking for the right model. I never did find the combination I was looking for (color, options), nor was I entirely comfortable dealing with an unknown dealership or person many miles away. But I did learn quite a lot through the effort, most particularly where all the great Jeep forums are found!

Also, there are some very cool modifications and bolt-on upgrades available to make the 'personalization' as big as your budget will allow. I had also looked at Toyota (old and new, especially the Land Cruiser / Land Rover), Mitsubishi and Nissan options. None seemed to be the off-road expedition ready (or nearly so) as the Jeep.

Many people were very happy with their chosen rides however, so it all came down to simply this: drive whatever you want.

I want a Jeep.
 
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