4.10 vs. 4.11 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 02-15-2003, 12:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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4.10 vs. 4.11

I am looking at jeep dana 30's from yj's and some say 4.11 and some say 4.10? did jeep realy put a 4.11 and a 4.10 or are they the same?
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Old 02-15-2003, 12:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lightbulb

Same!

(actually they are 0.2439% different - more variation in tires alone- you can run up to 3 or 4% difference comfortably)

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Old 02-15-2003, 02:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have heard you can run 1% on the road and 2% difference off road, with no adverse effects, per Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion.

"as long as the front and rear ratios are within 1% that the vehicle works just fine on the road, and can even be as different as 2% and work just fine off-road with no side effects"


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Old 02-15-2003, 02:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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you'll be fine with 4.10's in one axle an 4.11's in another, because if you divide the number of ring gear teeth by the number of pinion gear teeth it isn't always going to give you exactly 4.10 or 4.11, those are usually numbers rounded to the nearest hundreth.
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The reason for the very slight differences in axle ratios like 4.10 and 4.11 is because of the slight ring gear diameter difference between the front and rear axles. It's just not cost effective for the gear manufacturers to try and make the ratio exactly the same since that slight .01 or so difference doesn't affect anything.
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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the difference between 4.10 and 4.11 is that 4.10s have 41 ring gear teeth and 10 pinion teeth. 4.11s have 37 ring gear teeth and 9 pinion teeth. same way that 45 ring gear teeth and 11 pinion teeth will give you 4.09s.

"The reason for the very slight differences in axle ratios like 4.10 and 4.11 is because of the slight ring gear diameter difference between the front and rear axles. It's just not cost effective for the gear manufacturers to try and make the ratio exactly the same since that slight .01 or so difference doesn't affect anything."

does your ass hurt from pulling that out so fast?

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Old 02-16-2003, 04:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by manhattanjeep
I have heard you can run 1% on the road and 2% difference off road, with no adverse effects, per Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion.

"as long as the front and rear ratios are within 1% that the vehicle works just fine on the road, and can even be as different as 2% and work just fine off-road with no side effects"


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How often do you drive on pavement in 4wd?
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Old 02-16-2003, 07:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So how do 4.09, 4.10, and 4.11 compare in strengh?
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Old 02-16-2003, 07:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I DO NOT recommend trying this but.....
one day a buddy of mine and I went out wheeling. his toyota (81, SBC 350/TH350/203, 35" BFG's) had a 3.90 in the rear and a 4.10 in the front (only a temporary setup, for sure!) well needless to say, we hit pavement to go home, and his transfercase would not disengage! so we "unlocked" the hubs, assuming the problem solved. well his truck drove really crazy, pulled really hard and stuff. we couldnt figure out what it was. pulled the hubs off, and they were stuck locked! nothing broke, even after driving on pavement.
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Old 02-16-2003, 08:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TravisSSII
So how do 4.09, 4.10, and 4.11 compare in strengh?
The pinion diameter is the weak point, so generally the more teeth, the larger the pinion.
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WillyPete
the difference between 4.10 and 4.11 is that 4.10s have 41 ring gear teeth and 10 pinion teeth. 4.11s have 37 ring gear teeth and 9 pinion teeth. same way that 45 ring gear teeth and 11 pinion teeth will give you 4.09s.

"The reason for the very slight differences in axle ratios like 4.10 and 4.11 is because of the slight ring gear diameter difference between the front and rear axles. It's just not cost effective for the gear manufacturers to try and make the ratio exactly the same since that slight .01 or so difference doesn't affect anything."

does your ass hurt from pulling that out so fast?

Apparently you don't understand (or chose to ignore so you could make that comment) that the root cause for the difference in teeth count are the ring gear diameter differences. They don't just make up the number of teeth they want to have... there's actually a reason for the difference in the tooth counts on those different ring gear sizes

Last edited by Jerry Bransford; 02-16-2003 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1248bullitt


How often do you drive on pavement in 4wd?
Not everyone lives in the desert, ever heard of ice and snow?
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Old 02-17-2003, 05:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
Apparently you don't understand (or chose to ignore so you could make that comment) that the root cause for the difference in teeth count are the ring gear diameter differences. They don't just make up the number of teeth they want to have... there's actually a reason for the difference in the tooth counts on those different ring gear sizes
since you and a few other people (in other threads i've been in) seem to have this misunderstanding...

RING GEAR DIAMETER DOES NOT EVER, EVER CHANGE (for a given axle type such as d44, 9", 14b, etc)

got it?

the only gear whose diameter ever changes is the pinion gear.

the pinion gear size is only going to change a few thousandths of an inch anyway for a set of similiar gear ratios (e.g., 4.09, 4.10, 4.11)

the "root cause" as you put it for the number of teeth on each gear is a manufacturer's whimsy. one day i could wake up and decide to produce 4.09s, the next day i might want to make 4.10s (that's simplified, but you get the idea).

so don't got rollin those little pixelated eyeballs at me when you don't know what you're talkin bout, mkay?
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think they meant difference in ring gear diameter between front and rear axles - such as D30/D44 or D44/9" and thus different ratios front and back.
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Old 02-17-2003, 09:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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because of the different tooth counts, a 4.11 is much stronger than a 4.10, the pinion gear has bigger/stronger teeth.

Last edited by road1will; 02-17-2003 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4Guy
I think they meant difference in ring gear diameter between front and rear axles - such as D30/D44 or D44/9" and thus different ratios front and back.
you can still get 4.10s. 4.09s, and 4.11s for a d30, d44, and 9"

gear ratio depends on the gear manufactuer. some will make 4.11s while other decide to make 4.10s. hell, i've even seen 4.08s for a ford 8.8 rearend.
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The ratio is the number of teeth on the ring gear divided by the number of teeth on the pinion gear.

Some have the exact same tooth count and one manf. will label as a 4.10 the other 4.11

The 2% rule is true. (Go measure your tire diameter from front to rear, there will be 1 tp 2% difference in those too)
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Old 02-17-2003, 07:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


Not everyone lives in the desert, ever heard of ice and snow?
Isn't that the white shit that falls from the sky kind of like rain but colder?
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WillyPete
since you and a few other people (in other threads i've been in) seem to have this misunderstanding...

RING GEAR DIAMETER DOES NOT EVER, EVER CHANGE (for a given axle type such as d44, 9", 14b, etc)
For God's sake, you still don't understand we're talking about the difference in diameters between a typical front and rear axle? Cripes, no one is saying a ring gear diameter changes within the same axle. Sheesh.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:27 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wanderingwillys
Same!

(actually they are 0.2439% different - more variation in tires alone- you can run up to 3 or 4% difference comfortably)

Matt
There are 18 post on 4.10vs4.11 when the first post answered the question.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluerunner

There are 18 post on 4.10vs4.11 when the first post answered the question.
actually no it didnt, because it didnt go into the fact that the 4.11 is a much stronger R&P set than a 4.10 because of the size of the teeth.
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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First off, you people unsure of yourselves should listen to WillyPete, His information is correct. Second, lets not forget what forum we are in and reframe from the light bashing.
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
For God's sake, you still don't understand we're talking about the difference in diameters between a typical front and rear axle? Cripes, no one is saying a ring gear diameter changes within the same axle. Sheesh.
then i suppose you ought to say that instead of being vague in your statements. just because something makes sense to you when you think it does not mean it makes sense to others when you type it.

even if you are talking about different ring gear diameters between say a 9" and a d44, you can still get gear ratios with the same number of teeth. i guarantee you right now if you call randy's, northwestern, local 4x4 shop, whoever, that they can find you both a 4.11 and a 4.10 set of gears for both of those axles.

i'm just gonna drop this now so i don't get worked up anymore. it's pointless to enter heated debate about something as simple as gear tooth count. i hope you understand what i'm saying, but if you don't, oh well.

no hard feelings

and to you all, just on general principle
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 9V


4.11 is a much stronger R&P set than a 4.10 because of the size of the teeth.
Wrong,

A 4.09 would be the stronger gear set. In a ring and pinion set, the pinion gear is the weak point. The smaller the pinion, the weaker it is. The lower the gear set (numerically higher) the weaker the pinion. With fewer teeth, there also is less gear tooth contact, causing more stress on each tooth.
Now this is really splitting hairs , but it is also more accurate than the previous statement.
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