Removing Dana 60 Carrier - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > Newbie General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2013, 03:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Oxyacetylene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 79622
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 110
Removing Dana 60 Carrier

I am trying to remove a front D60 GM carrier. Using the rag method the carrier has started coming out, but only on the left side (the side with the ring gear). The other side hasn't budged. The left is out far enough that the pinion isn't touching the ring gear anymore but it still is stuck. So do I just find something thicker to put in the gears and keep at it, or do I need to drive it back in and try to get it out evenly?
__________________
1989 GMC Suburban 1500, 97 vortec 7.4 with 0411PCM, 14b FF rear w/Detroit & discs, Dana 60 front, ORD crossover steering, SM465 (factory), 6" lift, 37" Nitto Mud Grapplers on H2 rims
Oxyacetylene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 03:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
WINNAR!
 
Dookey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member # 23680
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 9,160
Are you trying to save what's there or you plan to replace it?
__________________
Anger is a gift.
Dookey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-07-2013, 03:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Member # 111310
Location: Woods Cross, Ut
Posts: 119
Needs to come out fairly even, you might be able to hook a pry bar behind it and work it out that way.
__________________
2012 4WOR Ultimate Adventure, 2002 TrailBlazer
chevycrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 03:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Oxyacetylene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 79622
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dookey View Post
Are you trying to save what's there or you plan to replace it?
I would like to save the bearings and races. I'm installing a Spartan locker. I won't know for sure till I get it out, but I think the bearings are good. I'm installing new seals.
__________________
1989 GMC Suburban 1500, 97 vortec 7.4 with 0411PCM, 14b FF rear w/Detroit & discs, Dana 60 front, ORD crossover steering, SM465 (factory), 6" lift, 37" Nitto Mud Grapplers on H2 rims

Last edited by Oxyacetylene; 04-07-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: added info
Oxyacetylene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 04:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
Way tougher than you
 
WYJAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 141446
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Posts: 421
No case spreader? Pretty easy to make
__________________
I carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy
ECV 3-Lord Sholto Douglas
Blue Lodge Absarokee #30, 3rd degree MM
So Mote It Be
WYJAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
can divide by 0
 
outfitter540's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Member # 101654
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 365
Removing Dana 60 Carrier

I always used two pry bars, never needed a spreader.
__________________
Ford with tires and wheels and shit...
outfitter540 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 06:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
Rock God
 
enigma2y0u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36955
Location: Aztec, NM
Posts: 1,080
Anything short of two pry bars is a pita IMHO.
enigma2y0u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 09:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
Trailbusters4x4 club
 
FuzzyZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member # 117547
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 1,539
Case spreader is almost a must if your planning on re using any of the bearings. Find one to borrow.
__________________
83 toy pickup, 02 TJ, 02 GMC 2500HD, 68 AMC AMX.
Trailbusters4x4 club Solano County
Dont blame me i voted Republican!
ECV 1004
FuzzyZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 10:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Member # 215352
Location: west kelowna
Posts: 392
Try beating on the ring gear with a dead blow while the rag is still between the gears (hit towards the side that is sticking out. Get a pry bar into where the axle shaft engages)

Last edited by ringding; 04-07-2013 at 10:32 PM.
ringding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 01:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Oxyacetylene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 79622
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by trkklr77 View Post
no its not.



did you take the axle shafts out? yould be surprized.


you can also roll the carrier around so the window is facing down and put the pry bar in and leverage off the housing.

you can also jamb a mid sized socket between a ring gear bolt head and the housing and roll the carrier using a pry bar on the opposng ring gear bolt.
Yes the axles are out. That's the first I have heard of the socket idea, pretty interesting. Thanks for this and all the other replies. Hopefully I will get some time later today to get back at it and see what I can do.
__________________
1989 GMC Suburban 1500, 97 vortec 7.4 with 0411PCM, 14b FF rear w/Detroit & discs, Dana 60 front, ORD crossover steering, SM465 (factory), 6" lift, 37" Nitto Mud Grapplers on H2 rims
Oxyacetylene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 11:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Oxyacetylene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 79622
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 110
Success! In trying to pry out the carrier with a pry bar it seemed difficult to get a good angle for the best leverage. I used a short piece of chain wrapped around the right side of the carrier. I adjusted the chain length so that the pry bar would be almost parallel with the axle tube. To keep from scarring up the housing where the cover seals, I used a single bolt to hold a piece of flat steel that I had laying around. This flat steel covered the mating surface. Then it took 36" worth of pry bar and a really hard pull to get it popped loose. Getting it back in there should be fun!
__________________
1989 GMC Suburban 1500, 97 vortec 7.4 with 0411PCM, 14b FF rear w/Detroit & discs, Dana 60 front, ORD crossover steering, SM465 (factory), 6" lift, 37" Nitto Mud Grapplers on H2 rims
Oxyacetylene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 03:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
Way tougher than you
 
WYJAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 141446
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxyacetylene View Post
Success! In trying to pry out the carrier with a pry bar it seemed difficult to get a good angle for the best leverage. I used a short piece of chain wrapped around the right side of the carrier. I adjusted the chain length so that the pry bar would be almost parallel with the axle tube. To keep from scarring up the housing where the cover seals, I used a single bolt to hold a piece of flat steel that I had laying around. This flat steel covered the mating surface. Then it took 36" worth of pry bar and a really hard pull to get it popped loose. Getting it back in there should be fun!
I'm telling you, CASE SPREADER! Many will argue, and that's fine. Many times a case spreader is not needed, but there are certain times on DANA axles that it is mandatory, no matter what anyone says. If you are swapping carriers, how do you plan on shimming correctly for backlash then trying to insert the carrier back into the housing when it's wider than the hole?
__________________
I carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy
ECV 3-Lord Sholto Douglas
Blue Lodge Absarokee #30, 3rd degree MM
So Mote It Be
WYJAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Member # 215352
Location: west kelowna
Posts: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by WYJAX View Post
I'm telling you, CASE SPREADER! Many will argue, and that's fine. Many times a case spreader is not needed, but there are certain times on DANA axles that it is mandatory, no matter what anyone says. If you are swapping carriers, how do you plan on shimming correctly for backlash then trying to insert the carrier back into the housing when it's wider than the hole?
BFH = case spreader
ringding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Oxyacetylene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 79622
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WYJAX View Post
I'm telling you, CASE SPREADER! Many will argue, and that's fine. Many times a case spreader is not needed, but there are certain times on DANA axles that it is mandatory, no matter what anyone says. If you are swapping carriers, how do you plan on shimming correctly for backlash then trying to insert the carrier back into the housing when it's wider than the hole?
I reused the carrier, bearings, and races. I was able to get it back in there, actually easier than it came out. I may still make a case spreader just to have in case I need to remove it again. If I have to set up new gears, bearings, carrier where you may have to install and remove it several times to get it set then I will likely make one before I start. For this time, I was already in the middle of the project and I really didn't want to stop and make one.
__________________
1989 GMC Suburban 1500, 97 vortec 7.4 with 0411PCM, 14b FF rear w/Detroit & discs, Dana 60 front, ORD crossover steering, SM465 (factory), 6" lift, 37" Nitto Mud Grapplers on H2 rims
Oxyacetylene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 06:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Member # 92402
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 129
A case spreader is not necessary. Put a wrench on the ring gear bolt and rotate the carrier until the wrench hits the top of the housing. Then use a pry bar at the bottom ring gear bolts to work it out. Very easy and very controled so you don't drop it. Drive the carrier back in with a plastic dead blow hammer. The only time a case spreader is needed is when the carrier bearings have external shim.
__________________
Tellico online rally post #690.
04'Rubi,tons,leafs,38's/99'TJ,stock
Jeep74j20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 07:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Elwenil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Member # 41063
Location: Covington, VA
Posts: 6,414
It is my opinion that a case spreader is necessary to put proper preload on the differential bearings. The case is going to flex and I'd rather it be with a spreader in the shop than while out running around fucking up my ring gear. If it wasn't necessary, Dana wouldn't have wasted their time making them, using them, putting them in the service manuals, etc.
__________________
1988 Dodge AW450 Ramcharger - 318TBI - NP435 - NP205 - D60s
Elwenil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 129208
Location: Land of Kyuss
Posts: 953
With the axle out of the vehicle, I had the diff facing up with a 2x4 across the face and then a HiLift on top of that. With a chain looped around the carrier and hooked to the HiLift it comes out nice and easy with little effort.
__________________
97 SAS'd Ranger
DB_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 09:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
Thanks
 
mvanhelden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Member # 133589
Location: Hippys,Homeless,Weed&Casinos
Posts: 2,153
Maybe I work on a lot of worn out shit, but I've never had trouble getting a carrier out with anything more than a small prybar. Re install with a heavy neoprene mallet. Most of them fall right out.
__________________
92' chevy 1500 shorty, ton's, doubler, nv4500 in the works.
99' Dodge Cummins, flatbed, 5spd, way too much power, rice without bling
I hate everybody, don't it feel great.......... to hate?
mvanhelden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 10:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
Epic and private
 
bftrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Member # 167147
Location: Northwest Colorado
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenil View Post
It is my opinion that a case spreader is necessary to put proper preload on the differential bearings. The case is going to flex and I'd rather it be with a spreader in the shop than while out running around fucking up my ring gear. If it wasn't necessary, Dana wouldn't have wasted their time making them, using them, putting them in the service manuals, etc.
A BFH will easily spread a case .015"-.020". If you are setting up dana axles all day everyday a spreader would be nice, but for doing it two to three times in your life use a dead blow hammer. That is unless you are made of money or have the time and materials to make one .
__________________
"I don't want to seem over dramatic, but i don't really care what happens here" Ron S.
1983 2500 GMC Suburban (baconator)
1993 F350 LBCC
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/exped...baconator.html
bftrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:36 AM   #20 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46175
Location: Darien Center, NY
Posts: 3,406
Case spreaders are nice, but I would say +95% of differentials being repaired/modified are not being serviced with them.

Impact forces driving a carrier in are sometimes controversial. It is more common with smaller bearings, but you can put tiny dents in the races from the rollers having uneven pressure and impact forces applied to them. As the races start a little crooked, that unevenly distributes the load on small focused points. Then striking with the hammer puts the contact pressures through the roof. Turning the carrier slightly to move the bearing rollers on the races is not a bad idea when installing a carrier with this method.

A lot of dealerships refuse to use a case spreader, and there is usually no major issue doing it by this method when care is taken, but done carelessly, you are setting yourself up for premature carrier bearing failure.

It is also important to make sure the ring and pinion begin to mesh when driving the carrier in. You can easily dent/ding the gears doing this.
__________________
USED and NEW 4x4 PARTS - (716) 984-8715 8-5pm EST
Specializing in Axles and Transfercases
Mh4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
Rock God
 
enigma2y0u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36955
Location: Aztec, NM
Posts: 1,080
Premature bearing failure to me in a rig that sees 2k miles a year means it will only last about 20 years.

Do things really fail in 5k Miles from beating a carrier in place?



Eta: I do realize some of the vehicles on here are daily drivers and things are a bit more critical.

Last edited by enigma2y0u; 04-09-2013 at 03:49 PM.
enigma2y0u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46175
Location: Darien Center, NY
Posts: 3,406
Just be careful to not have to much preload, and that the races aren't cocked.
__________________
USED and NEW 4x4 PARTS - (716) 984-8715 8-5pm EST
Specializing in Axles and Transfercases
Mh4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
Way tougher than you
 
WYJAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 141446
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenil View Post
It is my opinion that a case spreader is necessary to put proper preload on the differential bearings. The case is going to flex and I'd rather it be with a spreader in the shop than while out running around fucking up my ring gear. If it wasn't necessary, Dana wouldn't have wasted their time making them, using them, putting them in the service manuals, etc.

Thank you Elwenil. There is a reason that the two holes are cast into Dana housings, and it's not just for fucking looks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mh4Runner View Post
Case spreaders are nice, but I would say +95% of differentials being repaired/modified are not being serviced with them.

I would agree with that, but interject that more than 95% of the hobbyists setting up gears have no clue what they're really doing
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma2y0u View Post
Premature bearing failure to me in a rig that sees 2k miles a year means it will only last about 20 years.

Do things really fail in 5k Miles from beating a carrier in place?



Eta: I do realize some of the vehicles on here are daily drivers and things are a bit more critical.

It's not so much that the failures come from beating a carrier into place, as it is the backlash is no longer correct after reinserting the same carrier after it has been removed. OR, from not being able to attain the proper shim pack because the case HASN"T been spread enough. Your average shade tree mechanic has no idea what they are doing when it comes to hypoid gears and the theory behind them.
.
__________________
I carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy
ECV 3-Lord Sholto Douglas
Blue Lodge Absarokee #30, 3rd degree MM
So Mote It Be

Last edited by WYJAX; 04-09-2013 at 04:34 PM.
WYJAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
Rock God
 
enigma2y0u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36955
Location: Aztec, NM
Posts: 1,080
Yeah, perhaps there is a proper way, but there is a point where the trade off doesn't make a bit of difference given the application.

And I am not taking about just gears. Take torquing bolts for example. How many millions of bolts are tightened everyday and how many of the have been cleaned and torqued properly? I would guess not very damn many outside of an assembly line and shit still holds together just fine.

That probably has a lot to do with insane safety margins in some part, but then again the bearings also have that same safety margin.

I'm not a differential expert by any means; hell, I'm probably not even an amateur, but I have been around the block once or twice.
enigma2y0u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
Way tougher than you
 
WYJAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Member # 141446
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Posts: 421
Well, once you buy a vehicle that has had gears "Set Up", and they shit the bed and you tear it apart and the carrier literally falls out of the case due to improper backlash/preload, you will follow standard procedure. At least I do, every time. I took the hour and a half of my time, and the 20 bucks worth of metal/hardware and fabbed up a spreader. Easy, breezy, Japaneezy!
__________________
I carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy
ECV 3-Lord Sholto Douglas
Blue Lodge Absarokee #30, 3rd degree MM
So Mote It Be

Last edited by WYJAX; 04-09-2013 at 07:21 PM.
WYJAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.