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Old 04-19-2006, 10:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dana axles

I know this might just be a newb question, but that is what this section is for...

Can you use a Dana 60 from a Chebby to a Ford? It looks like you can just turn it over? Can you. Since the housing is on the left, not the right.
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Stop right there.

I see your logic and it won't work; lubrication, steering linkage, etc. are all designed for only one way to install.....right side up.

You may have seen other vehicle components flipped (i.e. Dana 300) to fit a certain application.

If you have a chevy 60 and need a driver's drop, either sell the axle (shouldn't be hard to sell a Dana 60) and buy the proper one or research a different transfer case.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yep, use a ford D60. I've seen a lot of them around for cheaper then the chevies, doesn't help me though!!! Thinking of tearing out that twin traction beam garbage? Remember to map out your entire build 1st before you start tearing into things. I thought I did a great job of that on my current build and them when I went to install my 4:1 case I just got from marlin I realized that UPS had bent the shift fork!!! That was after I dropped the t-case on my daily driver. Keep us informed on what you're planning.
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Old 04-20-2006, 01:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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one thing that has not been mentioned is, if you did flip it over, the wheels would turn the wrong way.

i have actally had this idea for a rear steer idea. using a front end in the back, flipped over. you would have the steering issues and oiling to deal with though.
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donahue
one thing that has not been mentioned is, if you did flip it over, the wheels would turn the wrong way.
Take your matchbox car. Run it along your desk, and lift it. See which way the wheels are going? Now while the wheels are still turning, flip it over.
See how the bottoms of wheels facing the desk are now turning the wrong way?

If you want to re-tube there are threads and articles on this, but you’re best to sell you axle and get the correct one.
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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FYI on this board you have to trust the lowest member number whom posted.
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ok, seeing as this is something done all the time in comp buggies, I can give you a brief rundown of the 3 main issues you will encounter when flipping an axle housing:

1 - Gears - The gears are now set up so it will rotate backwards. This works great for rear engined buggies with the motor backwards, but to use the setup in a front engine application, you need to install a set of opposite cut gears. For instance, if you flip a chevy D60 for use upside down in a front engine application, you need to use a set of reverse cut D60 gears from a ford to make it spin the correct way. A flipped ford HP will require a set of regular cut chevy gears. Also note that when you flip a chevy D60 it becomes high pinion... if you flip a ford D60 it becomes low pinion.

2 - Steering - The steering knuckles are now upside down. Not only will it not steer properly this way, it won't take the load generated by the weight of the truck resting on it. To get around this, you need to cut the "C"s off and re-attach them flipped 180 deg. (or whatever you need to get caster correct after you set your pinion angle). By the same token the breather is now upside down & needs to be welded shut & a new one drilled & tapped in what was previously the bottom of the housing.

3 - Oiling. The Ford D60 should work just fine run upside down as a low pinion, since the pinion is going to be more ore less bathed in oil at all times. Of course, this defeats the purpose of having the high pinion, but if you're considering flipping your axle apparently you have your reasons for doing so. The chevy low pinion D60 will have pinion bearing oiling issues with extended high speed use, but it will work fine for low speed off-road only operation. You can also overfill the unit through your newly made breather hole, which helps combat this issue somewhat.

Now, for my opinion on doing this to save money... no way. After all the fab & mechanical changes, you are way past the cost & aggravation to find the correct D60 for your vehicle. I agree, that the ford D60 outers aren't as nice as the chevy units, and the high pinion ford centersection is a plus for a front engine truck. Ultimately, the best axle would be a combination of the ford HP housing, with chevy knuckles & outers. Even if you had to retube the axle or swap out your transfer case that would ultimately be the way to go (at least as far as stock D60 parts are concerned). Once you open the door to fabricating an axle assembly, anything goes... why not use a ford 9" center, or a 14T... or graft the rockwell outers onto one of these. Don't lose sight of the fact you are looking for a simple bolt in swap that will give you the strength you want. Things snowball in a hurry otherwise.

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Old 04-20-2006, 08:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsOffRoad
1 - Gears - ... if you flip a chevy D60 for use upside down in a front engine application, you need to use a set of reverse cut D60 gears from a ford to make it spin the correct way. A flipped ford HP will require a set of regular cut chevy gears...

Hans
I didn't believe this was possible because of the angle at which the gears contact each other in their respective applications. If what your saying is correct, then you could install a set of high pinion gears in a low pinion axle and drive backwards, and I'm almost positive this isn't the case. Normally I'd be on someones case, but since your a competitor (according to your sig) I'm a little hesitant to give you hell because it makes me second geuss myself. I'm going to research and then come back and edit this.

Edit: I now have no problem saying your wrong, my little quick search confirmed what I had initially thought.

YOUR WRONG, know your stuff before you give advice, otherwise we just wind up with more people spreading false information and making the rest of the world dumb too.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...nion+low+gears
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...nion+low+gears
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...nion+low+gears
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...nion+low+gears
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Last edited by currupt4130; 04-20-2006 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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OK, I stand corrected about the ford gearset in the chevy housing making them spin backwards. Under examination of the 2 housings, what they did with the Ford High Pinion is move the pinion location to the opposite side of the ring gear, allowing it to spin forwards even when it is located above the axle centerline.

That is a misconception I have been operating under for quite some time. I obviously never attempted it myself, since I have had no reason to, but I have been told by many reliable sources that that would work, so I never took the time to look into it myself, just took it as fact. Guess that goes to show what you get for taking things as truth without testing it firsthand.

It's an easy misconception to believe and not feel the need to question further, since if you look at the parts books, all of the parts interchange except for the R&P... The carrier, the bearings, etc. are all the same. SO you figure... "OK, the reverse cut R&P makes it spin backwards.. that's why they use them in the HP front axles". Not so.

It's not the angle that the teeth are cut on that makes it not work, it's the location of the pinion in the casting, relative to the ring gear. Perhaps you could somehow make it work by clearancing the housing & shaving the ring gear to run the carrier backwards, but that would sure be a hell of a lot of work. Even then, getting the gearsets to mesh without moving the ring gear mounting surface on the carrier would be an issue, most likely an insurmountable one. The point is no one needs to figure out how to do this anyway, because it's pointless.

I do have first hand experience building rear engine vehicles with flipped regular cut axles. I can say for a fact that the axle will rotate backwards when you run a standard axle as a high pinion... due to the pinion being above the axle centerline but still on the same side of the ring gear. That much I can say as hard, tested fact... as well as all the other information in the post (with the exception of swapping gearsets to change direction).

I wouldn't say operating under the idea that swapping gearsets would work classifies me as dumb. If so, then quite a few of the top 4wd shops & competitiors I know are dumb as well. I agree that in this instance, I was in the wrong and it should be corrected before others get the wrong idea from the misinformation. I have no issues taking my lumps when I make a mistake. I know I've corrected people many times in the past myself... and this is pirate board.

Appologies...

Hans
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Last edited by HsOffRoad; 04-20-2006 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think a quick answer of no would have worked....Haha, I love you guys here, because you know there is always someone that once they read no, they think it will still work, and so you have a explain why it WON'T work.

Thanks guys, I was at the junk yard and saw a most all the dana's out there for Chevys, so I figured I'd ask.

Thanks.
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Old 04-20-2006, 02:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Haha, I love you guys here, because you know there is always someone that once they read no, they think it will still work, and so you have a explain why it WON'T work.
Welcome to Pirate!

and don't foget my post about who to trust.
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Haha, will do.
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsOffRoad
OK, I stand corrected about the ford gearset in the chevy housing making them spin backwards. Under examination of the 2 housings, what they did with the Ford High Pinion is move the pinion location to the opposite side of the ring gear, allowing it to spin forwards even when it is located above the axle centerline.

That is a misconception I have been operating under for quite some time. I obviously never attempted it myself, since I have had no reason to, but I have been told by many reliable sources that that would work, so I never took the time to look into it myself, just took it as fact. Guess that goes to show what you get for taking things as truth without testing it firsthand.

It's an easy misconception to believe and not feel the need to question further, since if you look at the parts books, all of the parts interchange except for the R&P... The carrier, the bearings, etc. are all the same. SO you figure... "OK, the reverse cut R&P makes it spin backwards.. that's why they use them in the HP front axles". Not so.

It's not the angle that the teeth are cut on that makes it not work, it's the location of the pinion in the casting, relative to the ring gear. Perhaps you could somehow make it work by clearancing the housing & shaving the ring gear to run the carrier backwards, but that would sure be a hell of a lot of work. Even then, getting the gearsets to mesh without moving the ring gear mounting surface on the carrier would be an issue, most likely an insurmountable one. The point is no one needs to figure out how to do this anyway, because it's pointless.

I do have first hand experience building rear engine vehicles with flipped regular cut axles. I can say for a fact that the axle will rotate backwards when you run a standard axle as a high pinion... due to the pinion being above the axle centerline but still on the same side of the ring gear. That much I can say as hard, tested fact... as well as all the other information in the post (with the exception of swapping gearsets to change direction).

I wouldn't say operating under the idea that swapping gearsets would work classifies me as dumb. If so, then quite a few of the top 4wd shops & competitiors I know are dumb as well. I agree that in this instance, I was in the wrong and it should be corrected before others get the wrong idea from the misinformation. I have no issues taking my lumps when I make a mistake. I know I've corrected people many times in the past myself... and this is pirate board.

Appologies...

Hans
A high pinion, reverse cut or whatever you want to call it, has the pinion on the same side to the ring gear as a standard diff. The gears are cut so that when the pinion is moved above the centerline they will mesh. Flipping a standard diff so the pinion is on top is not what makes it turn backwards it is because you have changed which side of the ring gear the pinion hits.

Gus
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Old 04-20-2006, 04:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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A high pinion, reverse cut or whatever you want to call it,
It's Reverse Sprial for a Dana axle.
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Mr N why dont you have a link in your sig to your new site?
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Mr N why dont you have a link in your sig to your new site?
I'm updateing it all this month.... keep checking back
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsOffRoad
OK, I stand corrected about the ford gearset in the chevy housing making them spin backwards. Under examination of the 2 housings, what they did with the Ford High Pinion is move the pinion location to the opposite side of the ring gear, allowing it to spin forwards even when it is located above the axle centerline.

That is a misconception I have been operating under for quite some time. I obviously never attempted it myself, since I have had no reason to, but I have been told by many reliable sources that that would work, so I never took the time to look into it myself, just took it as fact. Guess that goes to show what you get for taking things as truth without testing it firsthand.

It's an easy misconception to believe and not feel the need to question further, since if you look at the parts books, all of the parts interchange except for the R&P... The carrier, the bearings, etc. are all the same. SO you figure... "OK, the reverse cut R&P makes it spin backwards.. that's why they use them in the HP front axles". Not so.

It's not the angle that the teeth are cut on that makes it not work, it's the location of the pinion in the casting, relative to the ring gear. Perhaps you could somehow make it work by clearancing the housing & shaving the ring gear to run the carrier backwards, but that would sure be a hell of a lot of work. Even then, getting the gearsets to mesh without moving the ring gear mounting surface on the carrier would be an issue, most likely an insurmountable one. The point is no one needs to figure out how to do this anyway, because it's pointless.

I do have first hand experience building rear engine vehicles with flipped regular cut axles. I can say for a fact that the axle will rotate backwards when you run a standard axle as a high pinion... due to the pinion being above the axle centerline but still on the same side of the ring gear. That much I can say as hard, tested fact... as well as all the other information in the post (with the exception of swapping gearsets to change direction).

I wouldn't say operating under the idea that swapping gearsets would work classifies me as dumb. If so, then quite a few of the top 4wd shops & competitiors I know are dumb as well. I agree that in this instance, I was in the wrong and it should be corrected before others get the wrong idea from the misinformation. I have no issues taking my lumps when I make a mistake. I know I've corrected people many times in the past myself... and this is pirate board.

Appologies...

Hans
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