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Lift versus travel... articulation. Discussion please.

3K views 11 replies 10 participants last post by  78cj7-4.3 
#1 ·
Alright this has the potential to be an interestin thread, and I hope to learn a few things as I am new to jeepin, and hope to enjoy my new libby despite the fuel mileage.

I helped an old coworker build a wrangler a few years back, but I didn't really know what he was doing, just that he had a big jeep and was making it bigger. Since then I have learned about jeeps and understand why he was moving his suspension control arm pivot points closer to the center of the chassis, and why his rear shocks needed to be inside the jeep...

My question is what is the point of a lift to fit bigger tires when the suspension geometry can be adjusted in a manner that will allow the suspension to droop enough to top out an RTI ramp? (and the fenders trimmed to fit bigger tires)

I will admit that lifts look cool, but I don't know if I can justify lifting my libby, considering the IFS. I would probably end up retrofitting a SFA and doing a long arm kit, but in the mean time I am considering a 2" lift to allow for some bigger tires....

Also, is there any way to recalibrate the speedo to compensate for larger tires?
Thanks!
I hope I don't start any flame wars here, but I would like to learn a bit more about jeep suspension. I have come from driving the best handeling FWD honda available (a 1994 integra GSR with heavily modded suspension, to a 1999 integra type R #0715 to a VW golf 1.8t) and now I need something bigger and would like to explore the jeep world.
-Mark
 
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#2 ·
if you have 10 inches between your wheel well and the tire, and your suspension will compress to 9", a 2" bigger tire and you will be rubbing, so you need more lift. you do not want all downtravel in a suspension, and an rti has nothing to do with real world wheeling.

basically the reason for lift is to allow bigger tires, which could also be had(more clearance) from trimming the fenders.
 
#3 ·
That's interesting. I always thought that the RTI # had some bearing.... I guess that's what I get for listening to the stealership....

As far as the downtravel, I figured that if the approach angle is sufficiant that you could get over most anything (obviously you need some bump absorption, but I'm not saying only downward movement.... just stock (up) travel, with added down travel)

Thanks for the answers.

And P.S. My trials bike is rocking an I love BC sticker. I've only ever been to victoria (to visit family) and spent a day in Vancouver. If my wife would let me I would move our family up there in a heartbeat.
 
#6 ·
No uptravel/all downtravel/low rider look is the new trend in rockcrawling. No more :massey: lift. It's got it's benefits no doubt, but I'm still not sold..I like some belly and rocker clearance as well as uptravel. That being said, I'm also not a fan of lifting something 8" and driving a slinky. It's up to you, but I doubt you'll be wanting to do any fender cutting on your liberty. Go read some of the low cog jeep threads to get an idea what the concept is all about.
 
#4 ·
I run mostly trails and rocks.... (( hate mud )) its a pain to clean up.

I set my trucks with about 25-30% up travle and 70-75% down travle.
I dont have a lot of real big rocks around here, so there arent a lot of holes to lose a tire in. Suspension travel is a very important part of a good 4x4, how ever excessive travel isnt always a good thing..

I run around 7 inches on my full size and 8 inches on my sammy. They are wheeled hard most of the time and driven to and from where ever it is that I am wheeling. I wont go any higher for any reason.. Infact my sammy is past pushing the limit for usable lift... it is still sort of tippy and I am hoping that toyota axles will help me with a wider stance. Other wise I will be taking 1-2 inches out of it..

I am a firm believer in the practice of sawzall work... All my trucks are cut.

The way I figure it, my Ramcharger would fit a 35" tire with 6 inches. Great for street driving but would rub at full stuff... Now that I have cut the fenders, I have ample room for a 40" tire.... No rubbing at all...

My sammy had enough room for a wide 33" with the 5.5 inch spoa, and yj's... After cutting it, I can run a 36" with only light rubbing at full stuff turned to lock... Also why I am hoping the toy axles will help with a wider stance..

That is just my own opinion.. Hope it helps..
 
#5 ·
Low center of gravity with good suspension travel is key. A lot of big lifts do not allow much suspension travel, so they are basically only good for cruising the mall. Stick with a small lift and cut the fenders to allow for bigger tires.

You can recalibrate your speedometer for the larger tires. Usually you replace the plastic gear on the sending unit.
 
#7 ·
The point in lifting a vehicle higher vs changing the suspension geometry is not that simple.

Ok my dodge had one inch up travel with the stock springs. You hit a bump, all the force was transmitting into the bumpstops, and into the frame causing a horible ride. ok new leafspings that have 4 inchs of uptravel untill they hit the bumpstops-aka much better ride. Out comes the sawzall and I can fit 38's. But I wont. I will link the suspension before I put 38's on it. But lets say im building a vehicle with 53's and 20 inchs of susension travel. Thats a VERY large vehicle.

Basicly lifts higher then 4-6 inchs are for people who dont know/want to modify their suspension(generally)-unless there doing somthing crazy(53's, rockwells, etc)
 
#10 ·
I notice you want to lift your Liberty (off the topic of lift vs artic)
How big a tire you want to go? I own a diesel liberty and have done a LOT of research on available kits. you might also want to check out www.lostkjs.com as they have tons of available Liberty info.

as for the on-topic:
I am a firm believer in sawzall :D I have 35's on a Isuzu Amigo with maybe 4 inches of lift total and the same with a grand wagoneer. With the new suspension it will be 20-30% uptravel but sit higher due to the link setup (cant avoid it)
the best bet is to have a suspension that WORKS for you and your style/area.
Most of the east coast muddy/dirt/slick rocks around here a lower COG is helpful and the low breakover does not hurt you as much.
 
#11 ·
Wow, thanks for all the replies!

I think that I understand a bit more why uptravel is important.... I keep forgetting about the solid axles (on the majority of 4x4 vehicles) and the fact that one half of the suspension has to go somewhere.

As far as my libby plans, I am on L.O.S.T. and have started looking into lift setups, the rusty's coil lift looks like it's going to let me fit some larger tires and get a bit more aggressive stance. (and I would be a little reluctant to cut anything I am still paying for :eek: but maybe after a number of years should I need to (a SFA w/ long arms would need to be in place in order to begin justifying that)

I will have to try and get out with some vehicles to see where I am lacking and what would work best for me.

Thanks again everyone!!
-Mark
 
#12 ·
I have a 2003 liberty and am running the rusty's full kit and it will allow you to stuff 32's under there with no problem remember that the front axle as it sits will not handle much larger than that before it grenades. I have 32's and homemade disco's and can runn most trails pretty easily I have even suprised a few veteran wheelers wioth it's ability. that said I wouldn't try to go big unless you went sas and most that have done it won't use it as a dd after the mod. Search on lost there should be quite a few write ups on it I know Wally and Clint were running one for a while.
 
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