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Rear shackle angle w/ allpro springs

2K views 7 replies 5 participants last post by  RedBullJeep 
#1 ·
I'm having a difficult time finding relivant information when searching for proper angle of the rear shackle when using all pro's longer 5 inch lift spring. (at least in the toyota section)
I had a shop install my solid axle swap and dual cases and the rear shackle is verticle (perpandicular to frame)with all the old ifs stuff and a tool box in the bed add 240lbs more (me:flipoff2:) and only slight improvement in angle. The front shacke is closer to 45 degrees and the axle droops nicely. The rear picks up tires almost instanly even w/ wieght in the bed. As of now I'm pretty unhappy with the shop that did the work, I need this info to go in well informed. I also found out that the springs were installed backwards:laughing: but I figued this won't affect shackle agle. Carlos at all pro said it was up to who ever installs them to decide what the proper angle is. seems to me that verticle wouldn't work as well as 45 degrees or even half way in between.
 
#4 ·
shackle angle

Those springs need to break in by driving them and cycling them hard. They will sag a little, creating a little more shackle angle. Considering they are lift springs with arch to them they don't need much shackle angle because they won't bend backwards very easily. If they are still two stiff then take out a short spring on both sides. I used two run a pair of those and they were stiff as shit till they were broken in.
 
#8 · (Edited)
As of now I'm pretty unhappy with the shop that did the work, I need this info to go in well informed.
Well, you would have been well informed had you listened to Dallas in the first place. I realise why you posted this so this is not a bash...however it is a wakeup that things are probably not as they seem.

First off, commonly, the military wrap goes on the rear to eliminate leaf fanning, helping to curb spring wrap. The kit came with instructions that discussed the springs but did not discuss their direction. Dallas called me to double-check, I told him my experience from doing a number of leaf setups and doing personal research in order to maximise the performance of our competition CJ that competed against, and constantly beat, coilover crawlers for a number of years. On the rear axle, the double military does it's job best in the rear...ESPECIALLY for bump climbs where you want the vehicle to load and bounce diagonally upward/forward, instead of upward only, which happens if the spring leafs fan out and delays the loading. I told him what I had learned, which backed up what is most common, and also is what is pictured on All Pro's website. Keep in mind, All Pro did not include instructions, or if they had, the instructions were not supplied with the kit.

Then, once you pointed this issue out to Dallas, he explained to you that he could keep that advantage of the double military wrap in the rear and at the same time utilise the top anti-wrap 1/2-leaf, simply by spinning the top leaf around. It's more work to do so, but he was willing to do that for you for free...that makes you "not happy"???

Look, the design and reasoning All Pro has for doing what they have is unclear to me...I underastnd the half leaf for antiwrap and I used on on the CJ eliminating the need for an antiwrap bar...I still used the double in the rear but that was my choice. Their reasoning is unclear but maybe it's because they are trying to use the same spring for multiple applications, maybe they didn't really give this thought, maybe they have reasons that I don't know...I don't know, nor will I lay blame as really, it doesn't make that much difference...it's just a tuning preference that I bet you'll be happier with if you had just followed Dallas' advice over the last couple of days.

Yes, I have a personal connection with Dallas as he's our crew chief but understand this, he's our crew chief because he's one of the best at doing things right. We purposefully ignore directions on stuff from manufacturers all of the time simply because we have experience that clearly gives us reason to do so. This time, Dallas used the instructions for the solid axle kit (which includes springs) and they included nothing about the directions of the springs. He caught that and instantly called me (it was a weekend and All Pro was closed) with his feelings (which were correct in performance theory) and I backed him up. I explained my experience, which is vast on this particular question. I had this stuff down to a science, actually combining different leafs and components from numerous manufacturers, as well as custom spring clips I machined, to give myself an advantage.

In the end, he offered the correct thing...to do what you want, even if it's just the EASIEST fix which is spinning the leafs. He gave you reasons why he thought his solution (which is more work yet still free) was best, but you didn't seem to want that. He said "fine, I'll spin them then." Combining all of this, you don't really have a reason to be unhappy...he's going to do what you want, at his expense, even when it's partially the fault of others for not supplying proper instructions for their kit, which is backwards from so many other kits.

If this guy representing AllPro really knows his stuff, as he has posted, he wouldn't say that ALL double military wraps go on the front. As far as his experience goes, maybe so...but then that would show he doesn't have that much experience because they are commonly placed in the back for the exact reasons I stated above.

In the end, it doesn't really make that much difference but for me, especially with a spring-over, I'll always run them in the back on the back axle for the advantage of a forward hop as well as protecting the leafs from spring-wrap wear, in the back on the front axle with a forward shackle or a "softride" reverse shackle to help the fanning on a softer spring, and in the front on a front axle that is a stiffer spring with shackle reversal to try to keep the spring for "leading" the turn, and reducing your turning radius...

Take this info for what you will, I don't care, but Dallas didn't lead you wrong...he offered to do the right thing, even if it means doing it in a way he feels will perform worse, but makes you happy.

As for the shackle angle, it'll change once the springs break in. Dallas installed them exactly to the instructions...but you're still not happy and still questioning things? Wait a minute...he does things different and you're not happy, he does things the same and you're not happy...man, this is a tough customer he's dealing with.

Now Dallas can come on here and defend his position but it'll probably be something like, "Hey, I told you I'd fix it however you wanted for free after telling you my advice...what more do want...a cookie?" I know you have not named him here...I have. That's because people should know the background on this particular one and without naming him, the background might be a little clouded. He's spinning your leafs tomorrow evening...on Sunday, you'll have a little worse performing rig, just as you asked.



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